Taoist Patriarch meaning of Body fast and inward gazing

[Suliman]

Hey Guys im emailing about something that im trying to find out and im posting it here because i think this equally applies to Buddhism as it could be in Buddhism or taoism because the Master patriach was a Buddhist and Taoist.

Its on fasting of the body and fasting of the eyes,which is the where my question lies

Any suggestions on what he means by Body fasting and turning the gaze within?

ive been confused about this one for a while(over 6 months) so any suggestions will help in advance

 

I have also put the chinese characters beside the text for all you guys may know Chinese to check if you would like to because i do not fully understand the menaing of the characters.

 

I was reading Song of Enlightenment by Hsuan Hua(buddhist) and came to a phrase that said

 

LET THE FOUR ELEMENTS GO. DO NOT GRASP AT THEM. We people are made from the combining of the solidity of earth, the moisture of water, the wormth of fire, and the breath of wind. We should not grasp and become attached to these characteristics or to the complications which arise from having a self.

 

So then i put 2 and 2 together and bean to think this is what the patriach means by the phrase

一．四大不着而身斋。

The first fast. The four elements do not grasp - then the body is purified.

 

He speaks about the first fast being the body, so i was confuse whether he means 4 elements 四大 or 4 limbs of the body not moving, because there are many texts in taoism that speak of the body not moving by being physical immobility while cultivating

However i am inclined to believe that he accords with Buddhism in this one because of the fact that his language is often similar to Hsuan Huas but i could be wrong because the Text was written in the 1700's

Before i was reading "Hsuan Hua's" song of enlightenment i had been puzzled of the meaning of the body fasting in this context.

 

 

Here is an exerpt of the text below for your interest

A Patriarch is talking to his student and there is a dialogue and the student asks "i beg of you to explain how i can cultivate" and he Patriarch responds

 

 

一．四大不着而身斋。

The first fast. The four elements do not grasp - then the body is purified. ------(alternative translation is...the four extremes(of the body) do not move.

二．诸虑具息而意斋。

The second fast. All thought devices rest(stop) - then the intellect is purified.

三．回光反照而眼斋。

The third fast. The light is turned back - then the eyes are purified.

四．声音不入而耳斋。

The fourth fast. The sounds do not enter - then the ears are purified.

五．香臭不到而鼻斋。

The fifth fast. The perfume and the stink does not reach - then the

nose is purified.

六．是非不动而舌斋。

The sixth fast. By the truth or the falsity being not moved - then the

tongue is purified.

六斋已毕，复进而请曰：弟子斋矣。敢问其道？

After bringing to fruition the six fasts, the student has returned and

asked: the student is purified now. Dare I ask about this Dao?

 

Im also posting this in other discussions as its important i know the character meaning in chinese an also understand what is the meaning of these fasts

 

I have also read secret of golden flower an many taoist texts but i cannot fully understand the meaning of these 6 fasts

 

Any help appreciated

Edited December 13, 2012 by Suliman

[deci belle]

Suliman, the others who deal in chinese characters may weigh in on this, but this is basically typical of a "mind-only" meditation primer.

 

The steps are aimed at stilling the body, stilling the mind, then turning the attention around to gaze inward as the various progressive attributes of sensory perception in the head are eliminated for the purpose of concentration on the inner aspect of awareness empty of contents.

 

The Secret of the Golden Flower teaching has been around for 2000 years as the phrase "turning the light around" was first coined by the adept Wenshi, who was said to be a student of Lao Tzu.

 

The Secret of the Golden Flower is activating the capacity and flexibility of the human awareness empty of contents turned around to illumine the source of awareness itself. This practice is somewhat more advanced than the teaching for students you have attributed to Hsuan Hua.

 

As the Golden Flower teaching is an "all at once" teaching, there is no intermediary aspect to this practice. The essential factors involved are open sincerity and inner truthfulness, aspects of the intent of the human body which has no location.

 

When the human consciousness is clarified and empty of habit awareness, it becomes sensitive to the mind of tao also known as Real Knowledge or the impersonal objective awareness.

 

Under the influence of the selfless intent of the human body symbolized by the Yellow Woman, Consciousness and Knowledge are induced to unite as the medicines of Fire and Water to form the original aware nature symbolized by Heaven.

 

One DOES NOT FOCUS ATTENTION ON ANY PART OF THE BODY ESPECIALLY THE HEAD. The technique is to remove attention from sensory centers until there are no feelings or thoughts occupying the mind.

 

 

ed note: add bulk of this post

Edited December 13, 2012 by deci belle

[Cheshire Cat]

WOW!!

 

Thank you Suliman for sharing this text.

This is very important and non-denominational, in my opinion.

 

If you want to learn "turning the light around" which is the same as fasting, you can see instructions in the Chuang.tzu (fasting of the mind).

But, since you are in buddhism, why don't you try the Hua t'ou techniques which (Masters said this) is the same as turning the light around ?

Also, check the Surangama Sutra which is excellent in this topic.

 

The secret of the Golden Flower is about 3 kind of fasting (as far as I can see now) and I guess that to complete one fast is enough to realize all the other... at least, I hope so. If you are an immortal, please instruct me about this matter.

 

OT

----

Did you heard of the the Han Shan's commentary on the Dao Te Ching? I can't find an english translation

[XieJia]

In Buddhist view, the body and universe are the interactions of the four elements.

 

1) Earth -> All of solids matters

2) Water -> All the fluids

3) Fire -> Warmth, hot and cold

4) Air -> Breath

 

I remembered that the Mahasatipatthana Sutta mentioned them as one of the contemplations;

To my understanding, this is the fasting and purifications of the bodily senses.

 

Such is when one don't weigh one feelings over the other. (This is soft, this is hard, this is hot, this is cold),

acknowledges them and continue; when the bodily desire and discrimination calms, the body calms.

When the body is calm, one goes on to calm the mind.

and hence the sights, sounds, smells and taste (these can be internals)

 

 

Edited December 13, 2012 by XieJia

[Suliman]

Thanks guys for sharing your views

I have been reading http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/forskning/nettverk/obsf/podcast/2012/docs/LachsZen_2012_03_16.pdf

regarding the Hua touand trying to get my head around it, its a great text and analysis but maybe a bit too in depth ,maybe it would of been better if the author Stuart Lachs highlighted some bullet points as my mind shuts off whenever the analysis becomes too indepth however i never get weary of reading this guy -Chuang Tzu- and this is a great place for me to re read,as im so enthusiastic about anything to do with his text

 

So ill be looking through these two Sutras mentioned Surangama Sutra and Mahasatipatthana Suttat

Its really encouraging to get such good responses have to add a note that im very cautious when it comes to secret of golden flower because the text itself is a mystery and so are the masters it talks about so as its so obscure i would be cautious in personally following it(although im not saying its wrong or worthless to those that can understand its subtelties(theory and practice without blind acceptance in hopes of results)

[joeblast]

Lots of euphemisms for "fixing the spirit at the seat of awareness"

[Suliman]

i think for peoples interest and your comments you guys may be interested in a comment i received

A very clear explanation on the overall meaning of this was posted on a buddhist forum ,so i would like to share the response because this makes real sense even in connection with Taoism

 

 

I interpret this as being fasting from attachment to the body itself (but I don't read Chinese!). This can also be hunger and thirst. Whatever the body desires, whether it is to seek or avoid a thing, hence "do not move". In other words when these things happen to the body, any discomfort, the desire is to move. Towards heat, away from cold, towards food, away from an uncomfortable position. To move the body is to move the mind, to move the mind is to move the energy, to do this with attachment or aversion is to continue in ignorance. So the first thing is the fast of the body. We grasp with the four extremes because all of these things are sought out or prevented with our four limbs. Feet move us towards or away from desirable situations, hands grasp our push away desirable things. The body has a desire, the feet carry us there, the hands grasp it- fasting from all this is the fast of the body

 

 

I feel to mention that this is a great reply of a clear explanation

What i do want to ask everyone is ...now that the meaning is clear then now one needs a method or a process of practice,which im trying to fathom

One could fast in body or fast in other things but the result could be unwanted falling into emptiness so i am thinking that theres a subtelty to the process of fasting

What comes to my mind is the saying in (thomas cleary) Ancestor Lu 100 character tablet classic commentary by Liu yi ming.....

in 2nd line of 100 character tablet Lu says "conquer mind,do not doing" and liu yi ming explains the meaning saying basically it means the human mind must be conquered,but he says not to conquer by force but to conquer yet not trying to conquer

then he quotes taoist classic "understanding reality by chang po tuan/zhang ziyang" with the phrase " go along with desires,gradually leading them along"--this is the secret of conuering the mind.

 

Has any body any ideas of the exact meaning of this and how one would go about doing it?

 

thanks again for your responses

[Harmonious Emptiness]

What comes to my mind is the saying in (thomas cleary) Ancestor Lu 100 character tablet classic commentary by Liu yi ming.....

in 2nd line of 100 character tablet Lu says "conquer mind,do not doing" and liu yi ming explains the meaning saying basically it means the human mind must be conquered,but he says not to conquer by force but to conquer yet not trying to conquer

then he quotes taoist classic "understanding reality by chang po tuan/zhang ziyang" with the phrase " go along with desires,gradually leading them along"--this is the secret of conuering the mind.

 

Has any body any ideas of the exact meaning of this and how one would go about doing it?

 

thanks again for your responses

I might need to see the original sinograms and context to be sure what these phrases are saying.

 

Below is my translation of the first three lines of Hsuan Hua's "Song of Enlightenment." It's been a fun exercise and study of the language and phrases. I've left it pretty raw so the language can be viewed more through the original characters.

 

note that "fasting" comes at the end of the phrase, so it's not so much about "do this and blammo, your body's purified" but "this is how to purify the body, by fasting or limiting the activity of the senses."

 

 

...

 

一．四大不着而身斋。

[The first fast. The four elements do not grasp - then the body is purified. ------(alternative translation is...the four extremes(of the body) do not move.]

 

One. Four elements not 着put into action/moved, therefore body is 斋fasted from.

 

二．诸虑具息而意斋。

[The second fast. All thought devices rest(stop) - then the intellect is purified.]

 

Two. Various worries are skillfully ceased; therefore, inner dialogue (sound in mind 意) is fasted from.

 

三．回光反照而眼斋。

The third fast. The light is turned back - then the eyes are purified.

 

Three. Walled enclosure/turn around light rays (光 fire over child/man, think Lao Tzu=old child), (反hand/cliff, turn around) return back to the 照shining illumination; therefore, 眼looking and watching is fasted from.

 

Note: Character for turn-around (回)used to have “walk 辶” attached to” 回”which is mouth/gate, surrounding - proud/walled enclosure. So had the sort of pun like proud mouth walks/turn around.

 

 

My interpretation, based on other Taoist writing:

 

It’s common Chinese wisdom to say that over using the senses weakens them, and that too much of this activity can weaken the spirits/elements/organs/spiritual functional emotions such as determination, wisdom, harmony, that reside in the body. The eyes are connected to the liver, which is the connected to wood element and much to do with physical desires, greed, ego.

 

If you have desires, your light moves out. When you focus on the outer, the inner moves out. This is the way of most people/beings. Turn the light around. Reverse the flow. What will ensue is where internal Dao cultivation is takes place.

 

 

ed. note: first line fits to what poster said from Buddhist forum.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness

[deci belle]

in 2nd line of 100 character tablet Lu says "conquer mind,do not doing" and liu yi ming explains the meaning saying basically it means the human mind must be conquered,but he says not to conquer by force but to conquer yet not trying to conquer

then he quotes taoist classic "understanding reality by chang po tuan/zhang ziyang" with the phrase " go along with desires,gradually leading them along"--this is the secret of conuering the mind.

 

Has any body any ideas of the exact meaning of this and how one would go about doing it?

 

These famous lines are singular in effect, different in application and adaptable to each person's individual situation. These people were writing with real situations in mind. It is not about what they mean. The application of the conquered mind is itself the meaning of the Buddhist and Taoist canons.

 

Non-doing depends of the situation. You need to start applying your own situations to these words. How do your situations measure up to these words? Then, if you have a question for the bums, the application will be applicable to your situation, and you should express it in these terms.

 

Nondoing is not acting arbitrarily. A thought is the same as an act. If you have many or few arbitrary thoughts, then apply nondoing to your arbitrary mental patterns. Does this make any sense? Can you describe how it does or doesn't?

[Suliman]

very interesting stuff ,im am going to find the chinese version of the song of enlightenment on the internet

 

Good interpretaton of the taoist writings guys

 

May i ask you harmonious emptiness,what method or meditation do you practice? and how do you go about mastering the human mind?

 

 

 

Non-doing depends of the situation. You need to start applying your own situations to these words. How do your situations measure up to these words? Then, if you have a question for the bums, the application will be applicable to your situation, and you should express it in these terms.

 

Nondoing is not acting arbitrarily. A thought is the same as an act. If you have many or few arbitrary thoughts, then apply nondoing to your arbitrary mental patterns. Does this make any sense? Can you describe how it does or doesn't?

 

Yes i should post on the bums but as there are hundreds and thousands of myriad situations then i am trying to get clear on a general method of practice or meditation that people are using to get clear on some of the texts ,because if theres a true method/mode of practice then it would be very similar in all different religions...for example golden flower method should accord with the writings of the sage showever Liu yi ming would warns against many practices like regulating the breathing,and focus attention on certain points etc and he says this can cause leakage...so basically im saying that if golden flower is true method then people that are practicing it should be able to explain the theory in such a way that can dissolve confusion in others and also be able to explain how it is the same as other taoist and buddhist texts

 

Does this make any sense? Can you describe how it does or doesn't

i cannot describe this because the mind does alsorts of random thingds and clings to attachments that have been built up over years and years and is different in many different situations ,however,i can say that gradually guiding desires can mean many many things so i would like to ask what can one apply that to?

[joeblast]

I'm going to put this into a neural attenuation framework...since these things are an interlaced matrix of phenomena that we need to simultaneously bring to lower consumption states;

 

一．四大不着而身斋。

The first fast. The four elements do not grasp - then the body is purified. ------(alternative translation is...the four extremes(of the body) do not move.

The limbs require energy to move, more blood from the heart, more oxygen processed from the lungs, that is one aspect - but the other of not moving has to do with attenuating the cranial nerves - the vestibulocochlear nerve senses movement.

 

二．诸虑具息而意斋。

The second fast. All thought devices rest(stop) - then the intellect is purified.

Of course, thought isnt "present"...

 

三．回光反照而眼斋。

The third fast. The light is turned back - then the eyes are purified.

There's that fixing the awareness at the seat of awareness again.

 

四．声音不入而耳斋。

The fourth fast. The sounds do not enter - then the ears are purified.

The focus of awareness helps attenuate the vestibulocochlear cranial nerve

 

五．香臭不到而鼻斋。

The fifth fast. The perfume and the stink does not reach - then the

nose is purified.

By not using the air passageways to facilitate the movement of breath, we eliminate the power drain of the buffering mechanism provided by the sinuses - the result is to place the entirety of the responsibility on the diaphragm-psoas-perineum dynamic so that the flow of air can be streamlined below the threshold of turbulence in the air passageways. This ceases the stimulation of the olfactory nerve, downstream, the vagus.

 

六．是非不动而舌斋。

The sixth fast. By the truth or the falsity being not moved - then the

tongue is purified.

Admittedly I dont fully grasp the meaning of this, other than keeping the tongue from various activations, since this can involve many of the CNs; trigeminal, facial, glossopharygneal, and hypoglossal.

 

六斋已毕，复进而请曰：弟子斋矣。敢问其道？

After bringing to fruition the six fasts, the student has returned and

asked: the student is purified now. Dare I ask about this Dao?

No matter how extended your vocabulary is, good luck trying to describe marvelous phenomena with much accuracy...

 

What i do want to ask everyone is ...now that the meaning is clear then now one needs a method or a process of practice,which im trying to fathom

One could fast in body or fast in other things but the result could be unwanted falling into emptiness so i am thinking that theres a subtelty to the process of fasting

What comes to my mind is the saying in (thomas cleary) Ancestor Lu 100 character tablet classic commentary by Liu yi ming.....

in 2nd line of 100 character tablet Lu says "conquer mind,do not doing" and liu yi ming explains the meaning saying basically it means the human mind must be conquered,but he says not to conquer by force but to conquer yet not trying to conquer

then he quotes taoist classic "understanding reality by chang po tuan/zhang ziyang" with the phrase " go along with desires,gradually leading them along"--this is the secret of conuering the mind.

You harness the awareness first by putting all of your attention into the physical mechanics of breath - if you sincerely pay attention, then with that energy-potential being harnessed and something is being done with that energy, then there is simply no (or much reduced) energetic potential for thought-stream-energy to manifest. From streamlined, coherent (harmonious) breath mechanics, we get a net positive breath-energy. (Think Embryonic Breathing.) This net positive state is basically what makes you able to sustain various fasts.

 

Remember that the brain builds neural networks based upon habit and experience. By "doing the meditation work" we are training a new path of least resistance for the "root-core" energy - eventually with this path emblazoned, it deemphasizes the "other" path of least resistance for energy that basically "has nothing better to do" and winds up manifesting as thought-stream-energy.

 

One cannot cease thought by thought, just as one cannot cease hatred by hatred. One may only respond appropriately to situations - when an undesirable thought or impulse arises, it is not furthered. When an appropriate thought or impulse arises, it is furthered. Thus the proper is reinforced, the improper attenuated, the impulses of the subconscious are eventually brought in line with the Yi.

 

All of these "fastings" are really "streamlinings" in some sense.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

May i ask you harmonious emptiness,what method or meditation do you practice? and how do you go about mastering the human mind?

 

 

As for meditation, it's very simple. Sit. Collect awareness to present moment. Allow energy to rise and fall. Maintain the fasts mentioned above.

 

For a bit more of an explanation, a PM would be best, as too much of a finite description to undefined numbers of people may be somewhat misleading.

 

As Joe Blast maybe said, this puts one in a different position in which the default of energy goes to jing/chi/shen, focus on energy centers, or other places, things, or uses, rather than automatically processed to inner dialogue (sound in mind 意).

Edited December 14, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness

[thelerner]

What comes to my mind, at least for the first fast is often called sealing the senses. One aspect being the ability especially in meditation to ignore sound, sight, touch, thought etc., Which is linked to seeking simplicity, music with one note, food with one flavor, art w/ a single brush etc.,

 

The site Abardoncompanion.com has an interesting meditation 'The Center of Stillness Meditation' that does a good job of having you separate out each of the 5 senses plus thought and emotion into spheres and meditating outside there influence. If you get into it, which can take listening many times, you can experience sealing the senses. Its free at http://bardon.dnsalias.net/MP3-Links.html.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

What comes to my mind, at least for the first fast is often called sealing the senses. One aspect being the ability especially in meditation to ignore sound, sight, touch, thought etc., Which is linked to seeking simplicity, music with one note, food with one flavor, art w/ a single brush etc.,

 

 

Yes. Desire would be the other thing here. I think the other fasts are essentially a means to get one to a state of desirelessness which is fundamental for Daoist Nei Gong. See my signature for some more on that, or lines 7 and 8 from Chapter One of the Dao De Jing:

 

07 故常無欲,

The sages of the past always maintained absence of desire

 

08 以觀其妙。

And so were able to observe 妙The Beauty(miào)

 

[my translation]

Edited December 15, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness

[idiot_stimpy]

Esoterically the four elements could be.

 

Fire - Desire/Impulse

Wind - Thoughts

Water - Emotions

Earth - Manifestations

 

Therefore, non-grasping the above could take on a new meaning.