Looks like Obomber is going to use today's shooting to create a constitutional crisis

[ralis]

Columbine High School had armed guards and the guards were overwhelmed by the attackers. How far does it need to go? More is never enough. Do we give up freedom for a heavily armed police state? So far all arguments posted here are based purely on emotion and not rational thinking.

[Aetherous]

Do we give up freedom for a heavily armed police state?

 

Having guards at schools is nothing like a police state. I had one at my high school...he wore khakis, dress shirt and tie, smiled and made small talk, wasn't involved in disciplining students, had a small office...hardly anyone noticed him.

 

We should never give up our freedom (one example of which is the ability to defend ourselves and other innocents). And a police state is definitely not something we want.

[ShenLung]

Columbine High School had armed guards and the guards were overwhelmed by the attackers. How far does it need to go? More is never enough. Do we give up freedom for a heavily armed police state? So far all arguments posted here are based purely on emotion and not rational thinking.

 

No nation could withstand my strategy, to remain entire once it onfolds

with less than one thousand souls at my command would lay the mighty low

only free men, with their freedom intact could I but harm but never break

Can the timid mortal bear to speak my name? Perhaps, yet I think No.

 

Rational thinking doesn't get to bed the homecoming queen, sadly. If the adversaries of mankind are doing their level best, then they are beggering fools, and inept, for I can do better in death, I the least of men; no man, truely - can concieve a better strategy.

Peace and goodwill to all men

must begin in the hearts of all men,

grow in the hearts of all men,

and be realised in the hearts of all men:

 

Then the arms lie in their baldreds, and the iron turns to rust.

The brass and leaden tools of death begin to turn to dust

 

-I hope someone is taking notes, this stuff is only free for a little while -

 

I could conquer any nation by means of strategy by the time I was six years old.

This is not hard.

Learning to live and die in peace - now that is hard.

 

The dragon would say more, but the scribe is weary. Rascal, that dragon spirit is!

[chi 2012]

Has anybody else noticed that the last 2 shooters were INTPs? Under the Myers Briggs/ Jung theory - every person is one of 16 different personality types. The 4 NT types are considered to be the most intelligent - but the N function is used to see possibilities - and sometimes becomes disconnected from reality and doesn't see "what is" like the sensors do. Combine this with cold hard logic - these types can commit the worst murders when they go bad.

Examples

 

ENTP - Columbine Shooter Erik Harris, Arizona Shooter Jared Loughner , and Afghan Shooter Robert Bales

 

INTP - Sandy Hook and Aurora shooters

 

The NTJ's are a little more systematic with their murders........

 

ENTJ - Aldolph Hitler and Saddam Hussien

 

INTJ - The unabomber.

Edited December 25, 2012 by chi 2012

[ShenLung]

I wonder about those tests, some times .. the answers available don't quite fit .. ie, I think of possible outcomes, actions and scenarios far ahead of time - years, even - then act quickly when the need for action is evident. I'm not sure how that should be scored Still, I suppose they can make for an interesting diversion - found one online here:

 

http://www.humanmetr...win/jtypes2.asp

 

I get a different type every time I take this test, and type changes to suit the situation, I think.

Is there a need for a better diagnostic tool, and if we should have it, what might be done with the results?

Edited December 25, 2012 by ShenLung

[Birch]

I wonder about those tests, some times .. the answers available don't quite fit .. ie, I think of possible outcomes, actions and scenarios far ahead of time - years, even - then act quickly when the need for action is evident. I'm not sure how that should be scored Still, I suppose they can make for an interesting diversion - found one online here:

 

http://www.humanmetr...win/jtypes2.asp

 

I get a different type every time I take this test, and type changes to suit the situation, I think.

Is there a need for a better diagnostic tool, and if we should have it, what might be done with the results?

 

I can't get through these without saying to myself 'it depends' or questioning what the statements are supposed to be indicators of.

Is stuff still being done with the results? Recall Taomeow's story about her friend's 5E 'profile' being used to guide (manage?) his life?

[joeblast]

In your world view the collective should suffer for the selfish motives of a few?

I was going to ask the same thing of all the pro gun control folks

 

Columbine High School had armed guards and the guards were overwhelmed by the attackers. How far does it need to go? More is never enough. Do we give up freedom for a heavily armed police state? So far all arguments posted here are based purely on emotion and not rational thinking.

[Immortal4life]

Rational thinking, "logic", and the human mind is often completely off and wrong, where emotion and intuition are on point and correct.

 

However, here is a very rational and intuitive argument from Jesse The Body Ventura-

[eye_of_the_storm]

[chi 2012]

Rational thinking, "logic", and the human mind is often completely off and wrong, where emotion and intuition are on point and correct.

 

However, here is a very rational and intuitive argument from Jesse The Body Ventura-

 

Jesse is an ENTJ. ENTJs are best designed to be Presidents and dictators. For some strange reason the U.S. hasn't had an ENTJ president for quite some time. Obama is an ENTP. Romney was an ENTJ - but was an a 3 on the enneagram - making him a little more likable than than an enneagram 8 ENTJ. Most ENTJs are 8's.

[joeblast]

Interesting

 

http://www.zerohedge...e-death-penalty

 

Does Libor Manipulation Deserve The Death Penalty?

 

 

Bloomberg's William Cohan released a provocative piece last night, headlined by the even more provocative "UBS Libor Manipulation Deserves the Death Penalty." We can only assume that Cohan is being metaphorical - after all, despite the rare occasional recent criminal charge no one has still gone to prison for the biggest coordinated manipulation of a benchmark fixed income market for years: something previously relegated to the fringes of crackpot conspiracy theories - after all, so many people were in on it, how can they possibly all keep their mouths shut - you know, the usual excuse against massive conspiracy theories, at least until they become conspiracy fact. Yet one wonders: will current and future ongoing market manipulations ever cease when there is no real deterrent: after all spending a few years in jail is certainly worth a few million in ill-gotten proceeds, even assuming the termination of a career in finance. Is Cohan being rhetorical? Or has the time for some true vigilante justice finally come? Because in a world increasingly best portrayed by the 2009 movie "The International" where one has to "go outside" a captured legal system to get real justice, is vigilantism eventually coming to every town near you, once the money illusion ends? And a bigger question - is this the main preemptive reason for the gun control push seen so vividly in recent days and months?

Via Bloomberg:

There is no point in mincing words:

UBS AG (UBSN)

, the Swiss global bank, has been

disgracing the banking profession for years

and needs to be shut down.

 

... On Dec. 19,

the bank paid $1.5 billion to global regulators -- including $700 million paid to the CFTC, the largest fine in the agency’s history -- to settle claims that for six years, the company’s traders and managers, specifically at its Japanese securities subsidiary, manipulated the London interbank offered rate and other borrowing standards.

 

...

 

The same day of UBS’s global settlement, which included the Japanese subsidiary pleading guilty to fraud, two former UBS traders, Tom Hayes and Roger Darin, were sued by the Justice Department and charged with

“conspiring to manipulate” Libor

.

 

Benchmark Manipulation

 

... “They defrauded the company’s counterparties of millions of dollars. And they did so primarily to reap increased profits, and secure bigger bonuses, for themselves.”

 

To see the level to which UBS employees descended, one need look no further than their written communications

, as per U.S. prosecutors’ document dump. “Mate yur getting bloody good at this libor game,” one broker told a UBS derivatives trader.

“Think of me when yur on yur yacht in monaco wont yu.”

 

But, then again, UBS and bad behavior have become nearly synonymous. During the financial crisis,

UBS took writedowns totaling some $50 billion

, prompting the company to produce a 76-page, single-spaced, Orwellian transparency report. ...

 

In February 2009, UBS entered into a deferred-prosecution agreement with the Justice Department

and admitted to helping American taxpayers defraud the Internal Revenue Service. UBS agreed to provide the names of some clients whom it had helped to avoid U.S. taxes and to pay a fine of $780 million.

 

Then,

last month, came the conviction of former UBS “rogue” trader, Kweku Adoboli,

on charges that he hid trading losses totaling more than $2.3 billion. The U.K.’s Financial Services Authority fined UBS some $47 million and charged that its oversight of London traders was too trusting. The bank seems more than a little out of control.

 

...

 

‘Wash Trades’

 

It found that unidentified UBS traders entered into “wash trades” -- described as “risk-free trades that canceled each other out” and had no commercial rationale -- in order to

“facilitate corrupt brokerage payments”

to three individual brokers at two other firms.

 

In a Sept. 18, 2008, telephone conversation, Hayes promised that if one broker kept the six-month Japanese yen Libor unchanged for the day, he would in exchange “pay you, you know, 50,000 dollars, 100,000 dollars ... whatever you want ... I’m a man of my word.” Lovely.

 

...

 

Hayes repeated his request for a “low” submission on the three-month Japanese yen Libor. Darin messaged back:

“as i said before - i dun mind helping on your fixings, but i’m not setting libor 7 [basis points] away from the truth i’ll get ubs banned if i do that, no interest in that.”

Darin eventually submitted a Libor rate two basis points less than the “unbiased” figure of 0.69 percent.

 

In levying the record $700 million fine, David Meister, the CFTC’s director of enforcement, said that

“when a major bank brazenly games some of the world’s most important financial benchmarks, the CFTC will respond with the full force of its authority.”

That’s good as far as it goes, and the CFTC is to be commended for rooting out the global Libor manipulation scandal.

 

But an even more emphatic message needs to be sent to UBS by its prudential regulator in the U.S.:

You are finished in this country. We are padlocking your Stamford, Connecticut, and Manhattan offices. You need to pack up and leave. Now.

[Immortal4life]

Even Michael Moore has to admit guns did not cause Columbine

 

[Immortal4life]

Words of wisdom from Ice T

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4kF4ZIk67E

Edited December 26, 2012 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

It's the people who are scared to battle it out with enemies and attackers, and would prefer to be executed or dominated, are the ones whose arguments are based on "emotion" and fear

 

No Guns for Negroes, exposing the racist history of gun control-

[Immortal4life]

N.W.A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M8vei3L0L8

 

Ice Cube

Edited December 26, 2012 by Immortal4life

[ralis]

Frank Luntz the Republican pollster and operative who I rarely agree with, makes a number of valid points on gun rights in the second half of this interview.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/26/gop-strategist-i-dont-think-the-nra-is-listening-to-americans/

 

 

Republican strategist and CBS political analyst Frank Luntz said on CBS on Wednesday that both major political parties in the U.S. suffer from a disconnect with Americans, and that the NRA isn’t listening to the public’s views on gun policy.

Citing a survey he conducted with the Republican Mainstream Partnership, Luntz claimed that people don’t view the GOP as a party of the people. “When we asked the American people, ‘Who is the GOP fighting for and representing?’ the number one answer, the rich, the number two, big business. Well well back is number three, hardworking taxpayers.”

By fighting against tax increases for the rich, he said, the GOP plays into that perception.

 

Yet he also said that “Democrats don’t understand the hostility towards how much Washington spends.”

“What they really want is to end the spending, even more than raising the taxes,” he said of Americans, which he claims is not part of the ‘Democratic package.’”

Moving on to gun control, Luntz, who has done polling for the group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, claims the public “doesn’t look at it as a Republican or Democratic issue,” and that “more people, more families, based on what I’ve heard, have spent time talking about their fear of gun violence than they have over the fiscal cliff.”

“The public wants guns out of the schools, not in the schools, and they’re not asking for a security official or someone else. I don’t think the NRA is listening,” Luntz said.

He went on to argue that Americans support the Second Amendment but also believe “not every human being should own a gun, not every gun should be available at any time, anywhere, for anyone” and that people should not be able to purchase guns at gun shows “right there and then without any kind of check whatsoever.”

Watch the video, via CBS, below.

 

http://landing.newsi...ry&VID=24072011

Edited December 26, 2012 by ralis

[joeblast]

it makes one wonder if Luntz had ever in his life been to a gun show. wtf makes someone think gun shows are where you simply walk up to a booth and walk away with a gun with no checks or anything?

 

aside from a need to misrepresent reality in order to make one's views plausible, of course.

 

hah, makes me wonder if Luntz's kids, if he has any that are presently school aged, go to one where it is guarded by armed men. like David Gregory. Or the pResident. Or any number of these anti gun hypocrites who say its insane to suggest we have armed guards at schools, but then say "well this is ME and MY life we're talking about here, and I need to take precautions" and send their kids to schools with armed guards.

 

or the ones that call for gun control whilst having armed guards and escorts. or *gasp* arm themselves.

 

pew, pew, pew. easy to shoot holes in those arguments and point out the hypocrisy.

[joeblast]

at any rate, ron paul is correct on this in that the federal government doesnt even have the authority to say jack about armed guards at schools, much less give decree, detail and funding.

 

not that "limits on the federal government's authority" and the constitutional amendment declaring such has meant much of anything to the federal government.

[Aetherous]

“The public wants guns out of the schools, not in the schools, and they’re not asking for a security official or someone else. I don’t think the NRA is listening,” Luntz said.

 

Just because this guy says it, doesn't mean it's true. The news media doesn't represent the public, no matter how loud or how often they repeat themselves.

 

For instance, in this thread there have been multiple real people in favor of the 2nd amendment, as well as (I think) armed guards in schools. And there is one or two (who happened to be from other countries) opposed. I wonder if the entire nation was polled, what result would come out.

 

I will admit...that result will be at least a little different after the Sandy Hook operation and the resulting propaganda, than it would have been before. All of this was designed to make mothers with an otherwise neutral stance, go into war mode against any guns being legal.

 

...

 

Edited December 27, 2012 by turtle shell

[ShenLung]

I don't suggest placing armed guards or arming teachers as the ultimate solution, but an interim security measure, until such a time as the deeply rooted ills of our society have been adequately adressed and resolved. Most of the real work lies in taking personal responsibility and working towards building a civilization that respects the lives of others ... should this ever come to pass, we could still walk around with weapons on, but they would be rusting away from disuse .. I wouldn't mind seeing that world emerge.

[chi 2012]

Turtle Shell - You said your cultivation practice has given you insights to the conspiracy stuff. Is this from Kunlun practice? I've read where the kunlun people have said something to the effect - that the David Icke reptile/illuminati theories are real on some level...Can you give us any more insight?

[Birch]

Just because this guy says it, doesn't mean it's true. The news media doesn't represent the public, no matter how loud or how often they repeat themselves.

 

For instance, in this thread there have been multiple real people in favor of the 2nd amendment, as well as (I think) armed guards in schools. And there is one or two (who happened to be from other countries) opposed. I wonder if the entire nation was polled, what result would come out.

 

I will admit...that result will be at least a little different after the Sandy Hook operation and the resulting propaganda, than it would have been before. All of this was designed to make mothers with an otherwise neutral stance, go into war mode against any guns being legal.

 

...

 

 

The above quote illustrates a Facebook Terms and Conditions issue around ownership and rights to use media posted on FB.

[Aetherous]

Turtle Shell - You said your cultivation practice has given you insights to the conspiracy stuff. Is this from Kunlun practice? I've read where the kunlun people have said something to the effect - that the David Icke reptile/illuminati theories are real on some level...Can you give us any more insight?

 

I can't answer you about the questionable stuff. I only meant that my cultivation has made me into someone who seeks out truth and justice for all, even if it's challenging in various ways.

 

...

 

The prop master for Dark Knight Rises who may have added the words "Sandy Hook" onto the Gotham Map, who lived in Newtown, died in April 2012 from a head on collision (his pickup versus a lexus that had crossed the median into his lane).

 

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2012/04/12/news/shoreline/doc4f85fbfe06258451423422.txt

Edited December 27, 2012 by turtle shell

[zanshin]

I don't suggest placing armed guards or arming teachers as the ultimate solution, but an interim security measure, until such a time as the deeply rooted ills of our society have been adequately adressed and resolved. Most of the real work lies in taking personal responsibility and working towards building a civilization that respects the lives of others ... should this ever come to pass, we could still walk around with weapons on, but they would be rusting away from disuse .. I wouldn't mind seeing that world emerge.

 

My dad went to high school in rural Ohio. During hunting season, sometimes boys would take a shotgun to school and stow it in a locker so they could go out and hunt after class. They all carried pocket knives too, no one thought this was problem at that time.

[joeblast]

The prop master for Dark Knight Rises who may have added the words "Sandy Hook" onto the Gotham Map, who lived in Newtown, died in April 2012 from a head on collision (his pickup versus a lexus that had crossed the median into his lane).

 

http://www.nhregiste...58451423422.txt

what the hell, you really have to be doing something stupid to go over the divider on the merritt pkwy. most places there's trees in the middle, you're not going to just jump the curb there accidentally. that's just weird. I dont know how you'd up and spin out of control, its small, 2 lanes on either side, and most of the time there's a good 6-8 feet of grass before the divider. Edited December 27, 2012 by joeblast