anger

[QiDr]

"Liver (the storehouse of anger)"

Liver stores blood and is injured by anger as well as other emotions, especially depression.

 

"tonifying whatever organs are too weak to control Liver Fire (usually the Kidneys)."

Kidneys control the heart and heart fire, liver is controlled by lung and large intestine. The function of the liver is coursing and discharging and storing blood. Liver Qi can become stagnant and eventually lead to liver fire but that does not happen quickly.

 

" TCM is not a modality that has invented any talking therapies"

Talk therapy in TCM is the inquiry stage of every treatment. The Yellow Emporer's Classic of Medicine (Huang Di Nei Jing Su Wen) states in chapter 78 that on of the four lapses of a physician is "Ineptitude in the investigation and consideration of the patient's mental emotional condition"

[Taomeow]

"Liver (the storehouse of anger)"

Liver stores blood and is injured by anger as well as other emotions, especially depression.

 

"tonifying whatever organs are too weak to control Liver Fire (usually the Kidneys)."

Kidneys control the heart and heart fire, liver is controlled by lung and large intestine. The function of the liver is coursing and discharging and storing blood. Liver Qi can become stagnant and eventually lead to liver fire but that does not happen quickly.

 

" TCM is not a modality that has invented any talking therapies"

Talk therapy in TCM is the inquiry stage of every treatment. The Yellow Emporer's Classic of Medicine (Huang Di Nei Jing Su Wen) states in chapter 78 that on of the four lapses of a physician is "Ineptitude in the investigation and consideration of the patient's mental emotional condition"

 

 

Organ-system-function known in TCM as Liver does a helluva lot more. Among other things, it does store anger (the five major emotions of Wuxing, of which anger is one, are all "stored" in specific organs and generated thence). When excessive, Liver anger "injures" the heart, its Child organ. It is not "injured" by its proprietary emotion unless the latter is out of balance with the rest.

 

Kidneys, whose Child organ is Liver, are the main source of Liver health (or lack thereof) in a direct Wuxing generating phase. The Heart, the Grandchild organ of the Kidneys, is controlled by them too, which doesn't invalidate the point about the generating phase of the relationship being the most likely problem area where a TCM practitioner ISO correcting it will look first.

 

The inquiry stage in TCM has nothing to do with "talk therapies." Talk at the inquiry stage serves the purpose of providing the physician with information about what is going on so he or she takes it into account when choosing the correct intervention. This corrective intervention, once chosen, is never "talk." Talking itself is not viewed as a corrective and/or curative intervention, unlike in talk therapies of Western psychology.

[Cameron]

Absolutely. Provided there's consciousnes of the past included in it. (Some people have glimpses of consciousness of the future too, but it's rare these days. I for one have to rely on Chinese astrology to know the future, I don't have immediate sensory access to it except on rare insightful occasions). But including the past into the "now" is essential for emotional health. No emotion in and of itself is unhealthy, including anger, what makes it unhealthy is unconscious transfering of it from the "back then" into the "now." So consciousness, also known as memory, is essential for emotional health. The opposite of "remember" is not really "forget," it's "dismember." Dismembered (fragmented) consciousness, an outcome of repressed memory, can't generate any healthy emotions at all, whether angry or peaceful, they are invariably "not whole."

 

 

I think I agree with this. But can't say for sure. Ime not entirely sure my concepts of past, present or future are entirely accurate.

 

From the Zen perspective, Master Dogen has written interesting stuff on the nature of time and enlightenment. When I have the time I would like to study it. I think his main work is called Shobogenzo.

 

Obviously Dogen would be pointing to time in the awakened persons perspective not the asleep persons persective. In other words, how things really are not how we conceptually understand them to be.

 

Cam

[Wayfarer64]

The 9/11 responxe has been mentioned a lot. When those miscreant maniacs hit NYC I felt a personal blow had been swung at me. TRIBECA had been my stomping grounds for many years. It was home turf. The courage of the people on the flight forced down in PA also seemed a show of strength that belied the Wahhabi's assumption of inherent American weakness. The pentagon attack seemed a bit more "reasonable" or expected perhaps. All together it was a shocking morning's coffee-time. I went to work anyway, feeling confused and angry. (which often seem to travel together within me)

 

I expected our government to respond to this aggresssion. The world rallied around our nation and we banded together. It seemed for a time that much good could come from this heinous plan, and that it could back-fire..

 

I had long been a proponant of curtailing the Taliban's insanity by then, so going into Afghanistan always seemed a viable act of agression for me...

 

Then I analized the reasons that brought on the attack. As the Yi Jing has taught me, look within for the cause of your troubles. I don't go so far as Churchill Ward's "little Eichman " scenerio, but I get his point. The corporate control over our government has fostered grief world-wide.

 

I know how I see things is a far cry from how many see it but I'll lay it out here anyway...

 

Unfortunately the Military Industrial powers that be co-opted the situation and led us all astray. The Saudis wanted Iraqi oil controled by their puppets in Washington. (Look at the Carlyle Group for more depth).

 

We were misled in every conceivable way. We gained only more enmity where we could have gained support.

 

To my way of thinking, the cause of the attack and those who misled the response are one and the same. The control of the USA by corporate entities with no soul and no goal but wealth and power.

 

This is what makes me and some others angry still. We have changed nothing but our direction of applied force. Our response was not apt nor appropriate. It has only made the world situation much worse. We should have gone after the Saudi supported Wahhabis, not support their interests. We were duped by our leaders who are puppets of the house of Saud.

 

That the current administration has never had any credability doesn't help. Each of these issues foments anger within me and some others.

 

I direct much time and effort fighting corporate greed and control of governmental processes. The anger helps me to go on...It is not a bad thing - when I am able to direct it at the correct target.

[Cameron]

There is so much confusion surorunding those events. I don't really care who was responsible anymore so much as interested in that aspect of humanity that represents it. Basically it's all ego however you slice it. So my current way of thinking is better to focus on my own awakening and be one person to help the process start to heal than point fingers at those who lust for power and control.

 

If you see all of this as the Self(with big "s") it sort of shifts the perspective on all of this. Ime not quite there yet but apt to think realizing that fully is where my time and energy should go over finger pointing at the worlds latest versions of ego and delusion.

[QiDr]

[TwoTrees]

Great thread, I especially enjoyed QiDr's post because I'm interested in learning more about TCM.

I agree with what you said about the major emotions being counterproductive if they are resided in excess, but I also feel that they are essential to the human condition when being understood for what they are as they occur.

 

I haven't verified this, but the word aggression is said to derive from the word meaning "to move forward" and it does get things done in the right proportions.

The prefix a- means 'pertaining to', and -ggression being the major part of the word progression, yet the prefix pro- is what brings about a meaning of advancing or projecting forward or outward. But, the suffix -ion makes it more interesting, denoting 'action or condition' into the word.

 

'Der angriff' has been bringing about alot of response here.

Too bad I've already posted some major thoughts onto Leidee's thread about the same thing a couple of days ago. The question was posed toward women there, but is an issue with some who overly feel it, or not at all. Either way can be unhealthy, depending how you look at it. I may post some more thoughts on it later.

[Todd]

Tolle is so awesome I need to make a point to read some of his stuff or get one of his retreats on CD.

 

 

You might consider getting his retreats through audible.com. If you sign up for a monthly plan, they give you a free credit, plus one or two credits per month. One retreat is one credit and the first 3 months are half off. You can burn to CDs if you want too. Adya's Spontaneous Awakening and True Meditation are on there too.

 

I haven't felt strong pull to listen to Eckhart's stuff, but its nice to know that I can do it cheaply if I want to.

[Cameron]

Already have those Adya cd's. I Might just get the Tolle retreat from Sounds True.

[Ian]

The opposite of "remember" is not really "forget," it's "dismember." Dismembered (fragmented) consciousness, an outcome of repressed memory, can't generate any healthy emotions at all, whether angry or peaceful, they are invariably "not whole."

 

Interesting. Barry Long has a different approach to the word. He regards dis-membered awareness as unified, i.e into the ground of sensation, no separate limbs, and re-membering as returning to a more everyday awareness.

 

Either way, it's wonderful to, er, ahem, recall (?) that the word is physical.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Ian

[Lozen]

as far as dealing with anger, i'm crossing my fingers that my potentized snake venom will do the trick

[Taomeow]

Interesting. Barry Long has a different approach to the word. He regards dis-membered awareness as unified, i.e into the ground of sensation, no separate limbs, and re-membering as returning to a more everyday awareness.

 

Either way, it's wonderful to, er, ahem, recall (?) that the word is physical.

 

Sorry I don't know who Barry Long is, but I think he would probably have a hard time (if only linguistically) understanding one of my taiji teachers (not the main one) who always says, "remember ('re-member'), in taiji there's no arms!" A Wu stylist, this one. My main teacher, of Chen style, doesn't let me forget even the middle finger (which leads the whole body in Chen, and messes things up if forgotten).

 

It is indeed wonderful to recall that we are physical. Re-call I would interpret as "call yourself back" after you have lost yourself.

 

Re-ligion, from the Latin "religio" -- "I reconnect" -- used to serve the same purpose of unifying oneself with oneself. Not "tying and binding one to a deity of a particular denomination" but re-connecting the dis-membered parts of one's own consciousness.

 

If interpreted this way, the part of one's consciousness that is angry has to be included -- or else no wholeness, no re-ligion, no re-membering, no re-calling... and no real self.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Taomeow

[Cameron]

This is pretty interesting stuff!

 

 

Caffine was only mentioned once. It has been a catalist of angry energy for me over the years. I still have my morning cup, but try to stay aware of the resulting energy. It has become manageable.

 

I think of anger somewhat like pain. It is there to alert me to a problem that I should be conscious of. If the coffee is a catalist , then I need to look at what the inner cause of anger is, not what manafests it in my energy levels.

 

 

 

 

I agree about coffee. I have been having a strong cup of coffee every day and really have started to notice not only is the extra energy totally unneccissary for me, but it results in anger. Not so much anger but just a sense of too much energy that has no choice but act out somehow. So no more coffee for me, sticking with green tea..which is a nice level of caffiene for me and doesn't result in any 'frantic' energy. Or decaff coffee occasionally.

[Spectrum]

I've heard it said that food is the most powerful drug.

 

If I want to feel pissed off for no apparent reason (other then chemistry)I just eat a lot of refined sugar, some spicy food; ceyanne or jalapeno pepper does the trick, drink some alchol or stimulants like coffee or strong tea. A lot of one, or combinations will vary the milage... but either or, although the buffer has increased over the years

 

A perfect recipe for unbalancing the acid and alkaline. As has been mentioned before liver anger issues are common for westerners.

 

Recipes for rebalancing include herbals such as dandelion or liver stagnation formulas, mint. 5-htp works well to regulate sleep and seems to help create a buffer once things have smoothed over. Regular exercise/taiji/chigung & stretching are the single most "regulative" routine activities.

 

Spectrum

[cloud recluse]

I just wanna say I am really really REALLY appreciative of this thread right now.Over the last 6-12 months or so,Ive actually been experiencing a LOT of anger,for a whole heap of reasons,& have become very impatient & antisocial.

 

Quite a 'Recluse" actually

 

So much so with the anger that I havent even felt like posting here at Taobums much,simply because I feel like anything I write is just going to turn into an angry,doctrinairre rant,essentially me looking for an argument And thats despite this being one of the far more chilled-out flame-free places,overwhelmingly populated by polite & considerate people!

 

Therefore this thread is actually quite useful to me right now.

 

So before I dive back into seclusion,BIG THANX

 

Regards,Cloud.

[Wayfarer64]

Dear Cloud Recluse,

 

I have been complaining about the lack of sun-shine due to constant cloud-cover the past ten days or so in central New Jersey, but your reappearence here is very much welcomed by me! It is wondeful to hear from you again. I had begun to worry that you weren't interested in the forum so much anymore...

 

I do the angry rant thing once every several hours, both here and in my work as a tenant's advocate. It "agrees with me" - to vent and not contain my anger at the inept self-serving BS that is rife in modern life.

 

As long as this activity remains non-violent I concider myself pro-social as opposed to antisocial... and in fact a little violence has seemed apt from time to time in my travels... So don't get pent-up... vent the rage and sing the blues, curse the cold winds of injustice and kick some ass from time to time. You will not be doing ill to the basic mix- if it comes from compassion or just being fed-up with the crap that comes yr way...

 

I am proud that my enemies make me angry and that gives me a fire in the belly to get the hard work done that is needed to speak truth to power and thwart what evils I can...But it is the calm center that I developed from reading the Yi Jing and other practices that gives me the strength to use that fire's glow and not let it burn up my own energies in frustrated anger...

 

Anger is energy as any other - control and direct it for some good use, don't waste it by internalizing it.--Godspeed CR- I hope you'll rant somemore real soon!

[Spectrum]

Wayfarer Said: "Anger is energy as any other - control and direct it for some good use, don't waste it by internalizing it.--"

 

Letting it out in a way that expresses your frustration, etc while not attaching it to others....

 

Physical work, sweating in a sauna, hot bath, etc are all good anger valves. Usually takes 30 min for the chemical neurotransmitter release from the fight/flight mechanism to reabsorb, so removing yourself from said situation (if it's not just in your head but is right in your face), and go for a 30 min walk full of breathing will cool you off by default.

[witch]

TaoMeow you are a very wise woman. Thank you for your posts.

[cloud recluse]

Dear Cloud Recluse,

 

I have been complaining about the lack of sun-shine due to constant cloud-cover the past ten days or so in central New Jersey, but your reappearence here is very much welcomed by me! It is wondeful to hear from you again. I had begun to worry that you weren't interested in the forum so much anymore...

 

 

Awwww shucks Thankyu VERY much for this response,& no,I have NOT lost interest.Actually,Im taking off to the seaside for a few weeks with lots of alone time I figure this wil be most soothing.

 

Unfortunately, I wont have internet access for that time,bit I hope to have something positive to report when I get back.

 

Regards,Cloud

[mYTHmAKER]

I think he would probably have a hard time (if only linguistically) understanding one of my taiji teachers who always says, "remember ('re-member'), in taiji there's no arms!" A Wu stylist, this one.

 

And who might he be.

[Maddie]