Yuan Chi and the Spiritual Body

[Horus]

I'm interested in hearing what people say about Yuan Chi in relation to the spiritual body.

 

Would it be true to say that an ascended master reincarnating would be likely to have a larger percentage/balance of yuan chi than yin/yang chi, and therefore have a greater degree of development of the spiritual body prior to doing any inner alchemy to develop it?

 

Or in other words a spiritual master reincarnating would have more yuan chi and therefore a greater degree of virtue cultivation through higher choices in thought, word and deed - and therebye generate the development of the spiritual body/embryo without formulaic methodology.

 

Obviously the formulas are to accelerate the process...but my question is:

 

If I were an ascended master reincarnating, again, would my great degree of inner virtues make it that I was already in a position that the yuan chi development methodology would create?

 

I hope that makes sense...I just want to conceptualise the relationship between yuan chi and the natural enlightenment process and development of the spiritual embryo or spiritual body.

 

Any comments on how all of this might be boosted/lifted by the energetic shifts we are about to move through on 21st december 2012 are welcome too...

[ChiDragon]

It seems the question being asked is very ambiguous. It seems to me, also, that you are throwing out lots of terms without realizing what they are. Maybe that is why you are not getting any response. First of all, what is your understanding about the term "Yuan Chi"....??? What do you mean by "spiritual body"....???

Edited December 24, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ShenLung]

More to the point, if you were an ascended master, how would you know?

[ChiDragon]

元氣(Yuan Chi) is a general term which applies to a living body but not necessarily just apply to an ascended master.

 

In general, Yuan Chi is a basic vital substance which keeps a living body alive. There is a minimal amount which require to be maintained in order to sustain the life of a body. If the minimal had been depleted, then the body will die. One must know when to stop doing strenuous exercise and not pass the point of threshold. Thus martial artist always keep track of it by not going over its limitation. When it reaches its threshold, then it is time to escape from exhaustion.

Edited December 24, 2012 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

and then again, if one never pushes his limits, one will never truly get out of the box he builds for himself

 

but it is a good point though, cd, to question how much such things truly affect the things considered in this topic.

 

reincarnating to a good household where one can be well taught and well nourished would be something a sufficiently actuated soul would likely look for if it was focused on maximal leverage of such.

 

and then again, one may also take less than stellar circumstances and absolutely flourish. so horus, you might be mixing some terms up in that one's accumulated karma and ability to actuate the will arent necessarily directly linked to yuan qi, but you seem to have enough of a sense of what you're asking, even though the terminology isnt 100% accurate. we want to accumulate sufficient will and merit to be minimally subject to the winds of karma upon leaving the body, where we may have the ability to search out most optimal circumstances for full and complete enlightenment.

[ChiDragon]

A spiritual body does not need any yuan qi to sustain itself because it is immortal already.

[dawei]

In the opening transformations from Spirit to Energy, Yuan Qi is formed. Yuan Qi is undivided Qi or prenatal Qi housed in the LDT. IT is largely for this reason that energy practices start with teaching how to develop the energy in the LDT.

 

But it is much more than just about the living body.

 

http://www.healingtaousa.com/articles/taoalchemy_ch08.html

[dawei]

A spiritual body does not need any yuan qi to sustain itself because it is immortal already.

I would agree because Yuan Qi has fully returned to its source; It has transformed back to Yuan Shen.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

...I just want to conceptualise the relationship between yuan chi and the natural enlightenment process and development of the spiritual embryo or spiritual body....

 

All energy/form developments like yuan chi and spiritual body are a necessary part of the journey to enlightenment. However, they are not something you need to do deliberately (they happen naturally as the mind refines). And if you want all channels to open fully, that requires letting go of the body anyway so the mind no longer crimps the flow by clinging to it.

 

Energy work is only worth anything to the extent that it makes the mind easier to work with. Cultivating wisdom, clarity and virtue is 10,000 times more important than all the jing, chi, etc stuff.

 

Energy work is a really useful auxiliary that speeds things up a lot. We can't ignore it, but if we attach to it then we're creating new hindrances.

[ChiDragon]

OP: "I'm interested in hearing what people say about Yuan Chi in relation to the spiritual body."

 

Yuan Chi was required for a mortal body while a spiritual body(immortal) does not.

[Horus]

It seems the question being asked is very ambiguous. It seems to me, also, that you are throwing out lots of terms without realizing what they are. Maybe that is why you are not getting any response. First of all, what is your understanding about the term "Yuan Chi"....??? What do you mean by "spiritual body"....???

 

Thanks again, chidragon.

 

I'm clear on what yuan chi is, based on the further comments in this thread, and clear on what the spiritual body is - i guess it is more about the relationship between the two - to which you've given me some clarity with this comment:

 

"A spiritual body does not need any yuan qi to sustain itself because it is immortal already." [chidragon]

 

I gues what i'm trying to get at is along the lines of this comment (from this thread):

 

"All energy/form developments like yuan chi and spiritual body are a necessary part of the journey to enlightenment. However, they are not something you need to do deliberately (they happen naturally as the mind refines)." [seeker of the self]

 

So, would people agree then that 1.the formula and exercises expedite the process, but are not "required", and that 2.If a "spiritual master" for discussion purposes was described as a soul that incarnated with enormous levels of "wisdom", "clarity" and "virtue" - that the spiritual master that is born as a child in full conscious enlightenment (or degrees of it masifest - but for all intents and purposes enlightened in buddhahood) - that this child would, by virtue naturally "inflate" or build/activate/develop the "spiritual body" (with specific reference to Mantak Chia texts version of developing the spiritual body) and immortality - simply becuase they are so awake - ie it all just happens becuase they are whole.

 

Thanks again, Chidragon for the pricision of terminology.

[Horus]

More to the point, if you were an ascended master, how would you know?

 

Great question, ShenLung!

 

As an ascended master, if you were aware of other incarnations (of your soul) that you were experiencing ("past of "future" lives is not a term i'm overly fond of) - that you would remember who you are and that you are already an enlightened spiritual master, and recall experiences that were particular to your soul path ("your" pastlife is also a difficult term - but for conversational purposes...) - as opposed to not having such hightened awareness...for example a soul that has never choses to ascend to such heights.

[Horus]

A spiritual body does not need any yuan qi to sustain itself because it is immortal already.

 

ok, so I've learned that it is not yuan chi directly that builds the spiritual body - but great degrees of "wisdom, virtue, and clarity" acccording to Seeker of the Self would develop the spiritual body "automatically" (to which feels like its in the right direction toward the truth for me.

I know I'm fast tracking on the semantics here - but i'm trying to simplify the point of my question by complicating it...

 

Does the immortal body develop itself automatically with great virtue?

[thetaoiseasy]

wisdom and virtue is energy.

[deci belle]

Or in other words a spiritual master reincarnating would have more yuan chi and therefore a greater degree of virtue cultivation through higher choices in thought, word and deed - and therebye generate the development of the spiritual body/embryo without formulaic methodology.

 

Obviously the formulas are to accelerate the process...but my question is:

 

If I were an ascended master reincarnating, again, would my great degree of inner virtues make it that I was already in a position that the yuan chi development methodology would create?

 

Nice answer mr Chi❤

[thetaoiseasy]

People are born with degrees of refined energy, some more than others. A truly accomplished master can see how high the energy has ascended in individuals -- in other words, he can see the person's soul development, the state of his soul. When the soul has risen to a certain position, he has entered the Tao and obtained enlightenment. It takes some people their lifetime to reach that point, some are born with that type of energy. At that point, the individual is above virtue. He is virtue. From Tao, he can draw unlimited amounts of yuan chi devoted towards building the spiritual body. He has no need for the thousand methods out there. But enlightenment is just the beginning. It's not even close to developing the full immortal body. To believe that many people have attained enlightenment is false, however. To find someone who has that single attainment is like finding a needle in a haystack. The person usually wears normal clothes and acts like a simpleton, not donned in monk robes and smelling of incense. You'll surely miss him unless you have the same development as the person.

Edited January 7, 2013 by thetaoiseasy

[Horus]

In the opening transformations from Spirit to Energy, Yuan Qi is formed. Yuan Qi is undivided Qi or prenatal Qi housed in the LDT. IT is largely for this reason that energy practices start with teaching how to develop the energy in the LDT.

 

But it is much more than just about the living body.

 

http://www.healingta...chemy_ch08.html

 

Thank you, dawei!

 

Michael Winns explanation of the dantien portal "mysterious pass" is an answer I have been seeking:

 

"This vesica holds open a portal into Early Heaven (alchemical code: "true earth") between the "water and fire" spheres that control Later Heaven. From this portal within the cauldron arise neutral clouds of "steam", yuan qi birthing within the body.. The internally generated vapors of yuan qi are circulated in various energy channels of the adepts body and in the three dan tiens, dissolving any Later Heaven patterns of false yin or false yang within the adept and replacing them with the harmony of True Yang and True Yin qi." (from dawei link above http://www.healingta...chemy_ch08.html)

 

I asked a question about that very thing in a previous thread here regarding my subtle vision of what I thought was dantien here

 

My question then would be about the portal with steam issueing from it. Is that something that happens in the natural state, or only once the portal is opened by the formulas ie is the portal to Early Heaven (that steams) always open normally, or is it opened by the formulas.

 

This links back to my question about inherent natural awakened states like "being a "spiritual master" since birth" (even if you went to "sleep" for a time.

 

It was lovely to read Michael Winns comments about the early heaven or yuan chi birthing within the body - becuase I'm almost 100% sure that is what I was watching here

 

It was as amazing to watch as it was to read Michaels Comments, but it leads me back to the question that if I were a spiritual master (my soul had already lived many enlightened lifetimes) would the "portal into Early Heaven" be held open naturally?

 

I ask this becuase I have not done any of the formulas at all yet, but that portal was open... maybe it was just ajar? and more development would open it?

 

Or is it opened already for me, pror to the formulaic work, becuase of the work I have done in "previous" incarnations - resulting in a greater than normal abundance of shen? (or unity of shen with jing or chi

 

Thanks again, I'll have to reread that article...

[Horus]

wisdom and virtue is energy.

 

Great, so with great wisdom and virtue there is a great energy that fills the whole system "automatically" rather man manually (formulas) - thus opening the portal to early heaven.....?

 

Any comments on that?

[thetaoiseasy]

I'll just put it this way. Virtue is the best way to refine your sexual energy to higher energy. As you continue to refine your sexual energy with continued virtue, your energy becomes light enough to enter Tao. At that point, you can receive yuan chi directly from the universe, and you no longer work solely with your own sexual energy, to creating the immortal body. Virtue can take you to the door, but without commitment to celibacy at some point in your training, you will have no energy to refine to higher energy..

Edited January 7, 2013 by thetaoiseasy

[ChiDragon]

ok, so I've learned that it is not yuan chi directly that builds the spiritual body - but great degrees of "wisdom, virtue, and clarity" acccording to Seeker of the Self would develop the spiritual body "automatically" (to which feels like its in the right direction toward the truth for me.

I know I'm fast tracking on the semantics here - but i'm trying to simplify the point of my question by complicating it...

 

Does the immortal body develop itself automatically with great virtue?

 

It was nice that we had established a good start. Let's take one step back, a physical body requires yuan chi to sustain its life. One must cultivate to a point that the physical body which does not require yuan chi to sustain. During the cultivation process, the physical body will be taken less food causing the yuan chi to become less and less. Now, the physical body becomes a spiritual body while the soul is still remain.

 

To answer your last question. The notion about great virtue was only for the mortals. During the cultivation processing period to become an immortal, all human contacts were ceased. The diet was strictly vegetarian and taken foods from hot to cold. In the last few day before becoming an immortal, no foods were needed to nourish the body. After the physical body takes the last breath, then, the soul of the body was ascended and the body is no longer needed. The ascended soul was considered to be the immortal and rise to heaven.

Edited January 7, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Horus]

People are born with degrees of refined energy, some more than others. A truly accomplished master can see how high the energy has ascended in individuals -- in other words, he can see the person's soul development, the state of his soul. When the soul has risen to a certain position, he has entered the Tao and obtained enlightenment. It takes some people their lifetime to reach that point, some are born with that type of energy. At that point, the individual is above virtue. He is virtue. From Tao, he can draw unlimited amounts of yuan chi devoted towards building the spiritual body. He has no need for the thousand methods out there. But enlightenment is just the beginning. It's not even close to developing the full immortal body. To believe that many people have attained enlightenment is false, however. To find someone who has that single attainment is like finding a needle in a haystack. The person usually wears normal clothes and acts like a simpleton, not donned in monk robes and smelling of incense. You'll surely miss him unless you have the same development as the person.

 

Great comments, a thousand thank yous!

 

Can you elaborate more on this "But enlightenment is just the beginning. It's not even close to developing the full immortal body."?

 

Are you saying that the buddha or yeshua reincarnating (past enlightened masters) would still need to do the work to develop the full immortal body? Are you saying that it would not develop naturally as part of their ascended nature?

[Horus]

I'll just put it this way. Virtue is the best way to refine your sexual energy to higher energy. As you continue to refine your sexual energy with continued virtue, your energy becomes light enough to enter Tao. At that point, you can receive yuan chi directly from the universe, and you no longer work solely with your own sexual energy, to creating the immortal body. Virtue can take you to the door, but without commitment to celibacy at some point in your training, you will have no energy to refine to higher energy..

 

But would the refining occur naturally, or would formulaic process be required to "finish the job"?

 

Thanks for your great comments!

[Horus]

It was nice that we had established a good start. Let's take one step back, a physical body requires yuan chi to sustain its life. One must cultivate to a point that the physical body which does not require yuan chi to sustain. During the cultivation process, the physical body will be taken less food causing the yuan chi to become less and less. Now, the physical body becomes a spiritual body while the soul is still remain.

 

To answer your last question. The notion about great virtue was only for the mortals. During the cultivation processing period to become an immortal, all human contacts were ceased. The diet was strictly vegetarian and taken foods from hot to cold. In the last few day before becoming an immortal, no foods were needed to nourish the body. After the physical body takes the last breath, then, the soul of the body was ascended and the body is no longer needed. The ascended soul was considered to be the immortal and rise to heaven.

 

is that to say that the full imoortal body requires death? I don't think you are saying that?

[ChiDragon]

is that to say that the full imoortal body requires death? I don't think you are saying that?

 

No, what I am saying was that the spiritual body was only a temporary body shell for the immortal. An immortal does not need a body to reside in nor need to breathe.

[thetaoiseasy]

The refinement is completely natural, without a formulaic process - probably much to the chagrin of people who love complicated methods.

 

Virtue is both external and internal. Internally, you watch your thoughts, motivations, and emotions, rejecting the negative ones. This is the tough one. People make sure to refill the gas tank and take their car for a checkup, but who really takes the time to examine themselves? It's much easier to chant mantras, meditate, and read about spinning the fire wheel, or imbibing the heavenly dew. It's difficult to really examine oneself and decide to do act better. Without changing your thought processes, all the methods in the world will not work, because you are playing with dirty water. Externally, the application of virtue is easier: seek to do good and help others.

 

Your other question. Would Buddha have become Buddha without external methods? It's hard to say. He tried all the methods that other people tried. And though he rejected all of the methods, would he still have attained enlightenment without trying those methods? Well, you can say he inborn ascended nature drove him to try them and to see past them and to find his own method, but who really knows? Call it fate, destiny, x. It doesn't matter. But I know that "everyone was a born with a Buddha nature. But all people need to development." I repeat that line to encourage people and myself to start with themselves and not worry about their inborn potential, because everyone has that potential. And needs further development to realize that potential. Truthfully, with a single virtuous thought you have already knocked at the door. But can you keep knocking at the door until it slams open?

 

But would the refining occur naturally, or would formulaic process be required to "finish the job"?

 

Thanks for your great comments!

Edited January 7, 2013 by thetaoiseasy