How would a virtuous person act in this situation?

[Stosh]

Hello TheTaobums,

I need your thoughts badly. My issue is that my neighbor keeps banging on the walls of my apartment....

 

Nonstop. All day. Everyday.

 

It is pissing me off, and I'm trying not to get pissed off, but then, I get pissed off that I'm getting pissed off, which is a downward slope from there. I have tried everything. Asking God for help(I feel like he told me to ask here). Meditating on emptiness. Asking myself how God would respond to such a scenario. I still get pissed off.

 

 

I tried doing it back to him, but all that did was made me feel terrible, and it gave him the reassurance that it was pissing me off, and now he does it even more. Big mistake. Should not have given him any validation.

 

I have thought about just knocking on his door and confronting him, but I don't think I would have the strength to not kill him if he acted belligerent. Or at least attempt to kill him which would get me in deep shit. I want to avoid that route because I don't even want to worry about the temptation arising.

 

Also, I have heard that he's a methhead, and I have definitely smelled marijuana in my apartment before due to a nearby apartment. I don't know what meth smells like.

 

I have thought about complaining to the landlady, but at the same time, I feel like this is a GREAT opportunity for me to cultivate calmness, kindness, selflessness and detachment even when facing a difficult person.

 

The problem is that it just pisses me off so darn much that I'm having a difficult time cultivating selflessness or kindness.

 

How would you respond to this situation? I feel like complaining to the landlady is the easy way out. I also don't know if she would do anything because he doesn't do it much at night. Just during the day. But during the day it is ALL the time. I don't want to complain to the landlady unless I truly am unable to cultivate.

 

I guess what I'm asking is how can I not get pissed off and cultivate? How would a wise person respond to this situation?

 

Just wondering , all virtue aside ,, Why is he banging on the wall? It sounds very sad.(and maddening)

Are you thinking its just drug abuse straight up?

Edited December 20, 2012 by Stosh

[Apech]

Cultivation should make you calm and compassionate of course but it should also make you effective. That is have a sense how to apply yourself to this situation. Forget the hate/anger for a moment as these are ineffective. Think about the problem ... are you entitled to reasonable peace and quiet? yes. Then what is the most effective way to get it. Make a strategy with a number of escalating steps, the last one prob. is the police or move out. Try to think of new tactics ... for instance maybe your landlady is unhappy also (does he pay the rent?) and is looking for an excuse to warn him or even evict. So talking to her might not just be a matter of you complaining. Any other tenants affected by his actions? Find out.

 

When the banging starts ... put the plan into action ... like first step might be move into another room where its not so loud and see if you can put up with it. Carry out the steps dispassionately, impeccably ... follow the plan. If it doesn't work make a new strategy.

 

In making the strategy address the following five points:

 

1. Logistics ... what things do you need to have to hand ... or information like police tel. and so on.

2. Morale ... ways to keep yourself bouyant while this is going on ... so it doesn't get to you

3. Tactics ... ways in which you can adapt and respond if the situation changes

4. Strategy ... state clearly the objective and keep it in mind.

5. Freedom of action ... be prepared to initiate actions at any time ... don't get bogged down.

 

Just some thoughts ...

[thelerner]

In making the strategy address the following five points:

 

1. Logistics ... what things do you need to have to hand ... or information like police tel. and so on.

2. Morale ... ways to keep yourself bouyant while this is going on ... so it doesn't get to you

3. Tactics ... ways in which you can adapt and respond if the situation changes

4. Strategy ... state clearly the objective and keep it in mind.

5. Freedom of action ... be prepared to initiate actions at any time ... don't get bogged down.

 

Just some thoughts ...

And remember the end game. The best outcome is you gain quietness and make a friend of a neighbor. Worst outcome, no quiet, neighbor is an active enemy. There are many possibilities in between, but if you can initially shoot for the best outcome there are rewards. You deserve and its your right to have a quiet apartment, so if in the end it escalates, ce la vie, you tried.

 

Other thoughts. No one likes being told what to do. But there is a certain magic in the words, 'Can you help me?' especially if they're said in friendly nonthreatening way. 'Can you help me' very very powerful; catch them at the right time, right place and most people want to help others, they want to be a good neighbor, they will go out of there way to be helpful. Wrong time or they catch a whiff of threat and all bets are off.

 

Don't initially tell the neighbor to be quiet, ask for his help, explain the situation in terms of how the noise is effecting you.

Good luck with it. It a hard, but common situation.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I've dealt with a similar issue quite a bit.

 

First thing is that if you have to ask a neighbor to quiet down, introduce yourself first. Start with "Hi how's it going? I live next door." This is always an important starter, at least shows that you respect the person's time and if it's a good to talk for a minute. It also keeps you from starting off like "look A-hole, I'm gonna tell you how it's gonna be."

 

Then, like thelerner said, your asking him a favour "I can't concentrate with this noise and need this banging on the walls to stop."

 

If this doesn't work, you tried to give him a chance, so if the cops show up and bust him for possession, he had it coming it appears.

[ShenLung]

The tactic of requesting assistance is very good, I neglected to mention it. Fortunately, there are a lot of good minds working here! People like to feel that they are appreciated for something that they excell at; everyone has at least one outstanding quality. If one can find that, and admire it honestly, it will generate positive feelings. After assessing, you will know better what to do; they Way can lead (him? or you) to a behavior that is more harmonious with your goals. Making the noise reduction the first request seems like possibly closing too quickly; I would rather prove the material before committing to the final form.

 

Ps ... Demon valley ... that's another nice text, if one can grok it!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

Ps ... Demon valley ... that's another nice text, if one can grok it!

 

Ha, you just reminded me of something I was going to write earlier, which I picked up from Master of Demon Valley.

 

It was speaking about momentum or something like that, and how it can be interrupted.

 

Knowing how easy it is to cause a musical trainwreck by interrupting rhythm, when the neighbour started getting all excited and stomping all over the floor, I waited to find the pulse and flow of his excitement and dropped a noise in between it. This usually threw him off his course and ended his bouncing about.. for the time being...

 

Some might think that sinister, but it was a effective, quick, and nobody's nerves got too out of sorts.

 

So you could try that temporarily. when he starts banging on the walls, make a noise against his beat and it might put his crazy train to a halt.

 

I think street hypnotists do something like this as well. interrupting with something unexpected.

[Birch]

All this sort of makes my neighbour worse. He knew me and had already been round for drinks:-(

Anyway, the advice is great.

[ShenLung]

I get the sense that those sinister aspects might be the reason Demon Valley is written the way it is: If one can grasp it's meaning and uses, one is likely to already be fairly stable. Like seperating the ammunition from the weapon; when one can be responsible with it, one can put the two together.

[sevendays]

You should just go to his apartment and ask him what that noise is. Don't go to him with blame, anger, and so forth. For all you know hes not even aware of it as a problem. Maybe hes kicking his wall as a nervous tick while hes on his computer or something. You are imagining that hes sitting there gleefully annoying you, but thats just a projection cause you don't know.

 

Go to him without blame in your heart, ask him about the noise, and let him know that it bothers you so if its possible you would like it to stop, whatever it is. Then if it doesn't stop, take it to the landlord.

[Flolfolil]

Or they are helpers. Nature is so much more beneficial to the mind than unnatural and human sounds.

 

You are fooling yourself if you create any distinction between humans and animals or even electronics. Everything is natural, because everything exists.

[Aetherous]

A. Someone screaming in your ear and banging on your wall for hours.

B. Cicadas.

 

Choose wisely.

Edited December 21, 2012 by turtle shell

[Flolfolil]

ahh but to some people cicadas can be annoying as hell. It all depends on your mindset.

[GrandmasterP]

The cicadas in Greece all stop at a certain time almost as though someone had thrown an off switch.

Something to do with the air temperature apparently.

[Green Tiger]

Lot's of good responses.

 

I don't know how a virtuous person would handle your situation, but I would handle it like so:

 

The next time you hear a round of the banging, take a few deep breaths and go knock on the guy's door.

 

Greet him in a friendly way. "Hey. It sounds like you've been having trouble hanging a clock or something. Do you need a hand?"

 

If he gets in your face or responds to you in an unpleasant way, then I would take it to the landlady or the authorities, but unless the guy moves out, don't expect that to be the end of the deal. In my experience, neighbor disputes can only be resolved in one of two ways.

 

1. You become friends, or at least tolerant of one another.

 

2. One of you moves out.

 

Also, keep in mind that if you knock on his door and speak to him politely and he threatens you in any way, you probably have a case for getting him evicted. Assault is taken a lot more seriously than noise complaints.

[Flolfolil]

The next place you move, meet the neighbors before you decide that's the place

[hydrogen]

The next place you move, meet the neighbors before you decide that's the place

 

Makes no difference. If he moves in, the "methhead" neighbour will appear too.

 

Inside is outside. I believe it though I haven't figure out exactly the mapping yet.

 

The outside "methhead" banging on the wall was manifestation of his internal conflicts. It doesn't matter where he moves, the "problem" moves in with him. Because the "problme" is himself.

 

Unless he solves the "problem" in a satisfying way. The "problem" will definitely show up in different form, but the same essence.

 

Everything happens around you is indeed about you. Everything happens for a reason. People want to be special. But when they find out they ARE the center of the universe, they freak out. At least I did.

[Aetherous]

The outside "methhead" banging on the wall was manifestation of his internal conflicts. It doesn't matter where he moves, the "problem" moves in with him. Because the "problme" is himself.

 

Sometimes this is accurate. Other times, you simply move (or take care of the situation as any sensible person would) and the problem goes away.

[thelerner]

Bottom line. Subtle, what have you done? What has happened??

 

i hope it worked out well.

[oildrops]

When you project hate you are harming yourself. I would meet the neighbor ASAP, otherwise your mind will continue to take over and make it something to be pissed about. There is some good advice already in this thread about how to go about engaging the situation peacefully. The longer you wait though, the more difficult it will be. It might turn out to be nothing he's doing consciously, or something with excercise or whatever. Approach it as such.

 

Hydrogen makes an interested point, but I don't think it's valid in every situation. I have noticed that there are characters that show up for me repeatedly, and I've realize the only way to change the type of characters that show up in my life, is to change my inner climate.

[Taomeow]

Reminded me of the first apartment we had in New York. The neighbor upstairs worked some semi-night shifts, came home at 3 a.m., every night, and immediately turned on his TV, full throttle, our ceiling was shaking from the sonic blast. This, till 7 a.m., when he apparently went to sleep. We never saw him, he was a ghost, a mighty loud one. My husband hardly spoke any English at the time, so he didn't even know how to say anything to the neighbor, or anyone else for that matter -- whenever the phone rang in our apartment, he would run... away from it as far as possible, screaming "take it, take it!" -- for fear he would make an ass of himself by not understanding whatever the calling party had to say. So, he asked me if I would be up to us going to the neighbor at 3 a.m. and me doing all the talking. I said I would try. "But don't you lose your temper, who knows who he is and what he's up to every night, a criminal, a drug dealer, a murderer... Be careful, talk to him very nicely, OK?" OK. I'll try. We rehearsed what I would say. All the nice things, with an apologetic smile, with humble explanations of our predicament. With pretty please and sugar on top.

 

So, OK, 3 a.m. came, the TV got turned on, we were ready. We went upstairs, knocked on the neighbor's door. Knocked, rang, knocked, rang, then finally he heard the door and opened it. I smiled sweetly and opened my mouth to start delivering my speech. My husband pushed me aside, grabbed the guy by the hair on his bare chest, pulled him so close their noses almost touched, and yelled in his face in immaculate New York English, "I'm gonna fuckin' kill you!!!" Turned around, stomped downstairs, I followed, he waited for me to get in and slammed our door shut with a bang that almost brought the building down. No more TV, ever.

[billb]

You describe the guy as a drug addict with very disturbing behavior. You can talk to him and ask him nicely and then complain to the landlord if he does not stop. This is important so the landlord is aware. My guess is if the first request does not work the landlord complaint wont work either but you need to tell the landlord. This would at least possibly allow for you to move out on short notice because you can not live there as the situation became unbearable. I would complain to the landlord in writing ( email) so you have documentation of it. I would then call the police if the situation is not resolved and continue calling the police each time and document this as well. Hopefully the landlord will value you more than this neighbor and have him evicted if he does not stop. If he is a maniacal meth head do you really want to bake cookies for him? I strongly believe the first 2 steps wont work, but the call to the police will bring you peace and quiet, at least for a while. Please let us know how it goes. Also, if you have to move out, please ignore the new age bs that you created this and it will follow you around. I just move out of an unpleasant situation and now it is gone forever.

Edited December 24, 2012 by billb

[Birch]

Agree very heartily that you did not create this. It is possible you chose (or had to) chose a cheap place to live that comes with methead neighbours included but this 'choose your reality' BS is not referring to that.

The only reason I suggest the cops before the landlady is because she may be bound by rental laws that don't permit her to do anything until she has proof of complaint but then again maybe the methead reaction to the cops would be worse.

 

Certainly, trying to sort this out yourself with kindness would be a good first step but I don't reckon it's healthy to place so much responsibility on yourself for someone else's disagreeable actions. Certainly it looks like a great opportunity for 'practice' and you've also given DA BUMS a great opportunity to suggest stuff and share their experiences which is very kind of you so I hope you find the best solution for yourself and your methead neighbour. The main idea here being to include yourself in 'what's best'.

[ShenLung]

Reminded me of the first apartment we had in New York. The neighbor upstairs worked some semi-night shifts, came home at 3 a.m., every night, and immediately turned on his TV, full throttle, our ceiling was shaking from the sonic blast. This, till 7 a.m., when he apparently went to sleep. We never saw him, he was a ghost, a mighty loud one. My husband hardly spoke any English at the time, so he didn't even know how to say anything to the neighbor, or anyone else for that matter -- whenever the phone rang in our apartment, he would run... away from it as far as possible, screaming "take it, take it!" -- for fear he would make an ass of himself by not understanding whatever the calling party had to say. So, he asked me if I would be up to us going to the neighbor at 3 a.m. and me doing all the talking. I said I would try. "But don't you lose your temper, who knows who he is and what he's up to every night, a criminal, a drug dealer, a murderer... Be careful, talk to him very nicely, OK?" OK. I'll try. We rehearsed what I would say. All the nice things, with an apologetic smile, with humble explanations of our predicament. With pretty please and sugar on top.

 

So, OK, 3 a.m. came, the TV got turned on, we were ready. We went upstairs, knocked on the neighbor's door. Knocked, rang, knocked, rang, then finally he heard the door and opened it. I smiled sweetly and opened my mouth to start delivering my speech. My husband pushed me aside, grabbed the guy by the hair on his bare chest, pulled him so close their noses almost touched, and yelled in his face in immaculate New York English, "I'm gonna fuckin' kill you!!!" Turned around, stomped downstairs, I followed, he waited for me to get in and slammed our door shut with a bang that almost brought the building down. No more TV, ever.

 

New Yorkers do have a certain sense of courtesy, don't they? Hard to explain, if one hasn't experienced it.

[thelerner]

My husband .. grabbed the guy by the hair on his bare chest, pulled him so close their noses almost touched, and yelled in his face in immaculate New York English, "I'm gonna fuckin' kill you!!!" Turned around, stomped downstairs, I followed, he waited for me to get in and slammed our door shut with a bang that almost brought the building down. No more TV, ever.

Hmnn, new Plan D: Taowmeow's husband

[ShenLung]

Hmnn, new Plan D: Taowmeow's husband

 

Hmm .. how this method would work might vary, depending upon whether one was in Evanston, or Cabrini green!