Living on ch'i

[Imperial]

I've heard stories or talks about how some people can just live on their internal energy alone. They don't have to drink or eat anything.

 

What do you guys think about this? Do you guys think it is actually possible?

[Protector]

My friend's friend did that by sitting under a tree and using energy from it

No idea how he did that

[ShenLung]

Not internal energy, no.

I'm not sure how long it can be done, either .. I chickened out fairly soon into that experience.

[h.uriahr]

It is written that the Dragon Warrior can live off the dew on the grass and the qi of the universe...

 

Is it possible? I'm sure it is at some point.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

It is written that the Dragon Warrior can live off the dew on the grass and the qi of the universe...

 

Is it possible? I'm sure it is at some point.

 

 

Yeah, but when a panda is a dragon, we know there's something more to it than that... may be some computer graphics at work

[dawei]

Look up Breatharian.

 

Energy is not from food alone... If one is getting their energy only during practice then they are restricting their access (at least in intention) to that time. Each breath is 'practice' in the sense of acquiring energy. And each breath is from the skin, not the nose alone. Don't limit yourself from universal energy.

[Imperial]

Thanks!

 

It'd be great if I ever reach a state like that! I won't have to worry about food expenses or money. Then I can hopefully travel around the world and see the most beautiful places on earth! I can then devote my life developing my internal practices without worrying about society or money!

Edited December 21, 2012 by Imperial

[Alchemistgeorge]

I sat next to a woman at a retreat who stopped eating after doing a week of 'greater kan & li' - she was persuaded to eat after about 10 days. While I know it is part of the higher practices, I never met anyone who actually did it.

[Cheshire Cat]

I sat next to a woman at a retreat who stopped eating after doing a week of 'greater kan & li' - she was persuaded to eat after about 10 days. While I know it is part of the higher practices, I never met anyone who actually did it.

 

This is interesting. I've read something about this on Michael Winn's articles.

Mantak Chia said that his teacher was proficient in this form of Bigu (in which one lives on Qi from the environment).

 

The main point in bigu is that one shouldn't loss weight, nor be angry.

[ShenLung]

There seems to be some interest in this topic, so I'll share what I know .. I kinda wound up spilling a bit more info on another thread than I usually do. I will copy and paste that here. I am not some guru or holy man, just a wisdom seeker with some interesting experiences:

 

I was once obsessed with the nutritional value of food, and wanted to find out exactly what foods I should eat, and in what proportions in order to gain the optimal delivery of nutrients, with the minimal amount of waste. An associate asked me why I was doing this, and I said, "I want to be able to avoid going to the bathroom as much as possible." If that seems absurd to you, you aren't alone, because she then asked "Why go to such trouble? When you excrete, it is just dung, and dung forms soil, which plants need to grow." I immediantly replied, "yes, but when I do this, I feel less than divine."

Eventually, I began to make do with just sunshine and water. I did this for twenty nine days, with no loss of body mass or weakness (I actually felt more energetic) Healing abilities were phenomonal, and insights came fast and powerfully. At one point, I percieved the entirety of creation as one equation attempting to solve itself ... and despite the apparent complexity, it was delightfully simple. I stopped at 29 days because the thirty day mark holds a certain significance for me, and I was already beginning to experience strong egoist urges. Also, I observed that although I was not consuming in the usual way, I was draining the life out of every plant that I stayed in contact with for any amount of time. I lost three golden cypress and one juniper bonsai during that time.

 

I was asked about my practice during that time:

 

Qigong:

Every breath, when possible Neigong skin breathing. Lots of weidan and sitting meditation (see Tao)

I was contemplating working on breath with no breath*, but couldnt quite pull it off. It might be doable, but not at that level of understanding, still working on it, or will be, when I finish just enjoying life some more

 

Tao: absolute understanding, holding the mean (hehe ... I hadn't read TTC yet, though, which is kinda funny holding the mean not completely accomplished, there was some localized problems, like the houseplants)

 

Buddhist philosophy: Lots of virtue cultivation, (working on) Mastery of the negative emotional states

I couldn't get past ego, or did not want to at that time.

 

I am fairly certain that if I had kept going, fixed the plant issue, and really been able to let go of the self, a pure energy state would have been realised. I believe they call this 'rainbow body' or something. In any case, a physical existance would have been completely impossible - not ready for that, maybe never will want it that badly - but never is a long time

 

Other factors:

Leading up to this period, heavy meditation and spiritual work, Buddhist mind training, vegitarian diet, intense physical excercise routine (gym/judo with a one day break each week ... takes a LOT of veg. protein to keep up, I ate like a horse!)

Keen interest in the supernal sephirot - this was before '95, so the work was difficult, filled with dead ends and insoluble puzzles. Might have been a factor. Incense (cedar, sandlewood, frankincense, myrrh, and hemp - had pot smoking roomies, so contact highs were occurring regularly ) Music: variety, all very mathematically logical stuff, clean sound. Lots of observation and appreciation of nature, respect for life.

 

X factors: I'm a walk-in, began experiencing the physical manifestation when this body was five years old, no memory-in-body from up to that point. I am also energy blind: I can feel subtle energy, but cannot see it. hmm, what else? Synesthesia: hearing light, feeling sound, ect. This probably helps make some connections in the brain that might be overlooked otherwise.

I think many people have reported this experience while under the influence of hallucinogens, but I don't know - they don't seem to affect me.

(edit) forgot to mention: NO SMOKING .. tobacco has been used shamanistically to banish both negative and positive energetic forces .. it is kind of like the damper rods in a nuclear reactor for subtle energy.

 

*Not the skill of concealing motive described in Go Rin No Sho, but actually drawing life sustaining energy without the need for air. Bringing this up has made me go do some extra study, and I now feel that this is a perversion of the meaning of breath with no breath. Spleen strengthening excercises might enable one to maintain a supply of oxygenated blood for extended periods, enabling far longer intervals without breathing. I will test this theory next time I pull the dampers out and get into practice.

Edited December 21, 2012 by ShenLung

[thetaoiseasy]

Living on qi is only possible with sublimation. The lower dan-tien is essentially in your intestines. If you have qi there, you'll be hungry as heck. If you can do pure spiritual practice, your energy will rise up to the higher parts of your body. That's when true bigu--not suppression--is possible. Spontaneous fasting occurs when your energy is light and pure ,and you can't stand to put in gross, yin energy into your body. At that point, you might throw up if you put in food your body.

[ShenLung]

Living on qi is only possible with sublimation. The lower dan-tien is essentially in your intestines. If you have qi there, you'll be hungry as heck. If you can do pure spiritual practice, your energy will rise up to the higher parts of your body. That's when true bigu--not suppression--is possible. Spontaneous fasting occurs when your energy is light and pure ,and you can't stand to put in gross, yin energy into your body. At that point, you might throw up if you put in food your body.

 

Yes. In my case, the desire for food just got less and less as I relied on qi more and more. This should not be a goal, in my opinion, just something to be aware of when it occurs during normal progress on your path. Back in '87 - ish, There was no one around that I could discuss this experience with, no teachers, ect .. just on my own, so it was kind of spooky.

[dawei]

IMO, we acquire or stimulate energy from at least:

 

1. Food

2, Exercise

3. Massage

4. Acupuncture

5. Energy practices

6. Breathing

7. Herbs

 

There is no perfect formula; it is personal and one can vary their areas. I have tested various combinations and simply living is actually the best way. The more we are caught into the trap of 'needing to practice' the more unnatural the thought... JMO.

 

BTW: only one of the above we can do 24/7... so this isn't really a trick question after all...

[Birch]

How about a list of things which cause people to lose energy? I'm sure several of the above would also be on that list. E.g. frankenfood, excessive jogging, unwanted contact, dim mak, 'bad energy'(?), shallow breathing,...

[ShenLung]

How about a list of things which cause people to lose energy? I'm sure several of the above would also be on that list. E.g. frankenfood, excessive jogging, unwanted contact, dim mak, 'bad energy'(?), shallow breathing,...

 

Being 'in a hurry', worrying, dwelling upon negative emotions. Compensating for extremes of temperature without balancing energies, Unwanted contact: disturbing, hostile, or excessivly needy persons; there is an energy differential here (thank Eternal_Student for providing that clue) Shallow breathing: I've heard somewhere that "The shorter the breath, the shorter the life". Thats sounds true to me. Release of energy during sex: Lots of folks practice semen retention religeously, but I believe that if one is mindful of their energy, the energy generated by sexual activity can be easily absorbed and circulated, whether there is ejaculation or not.

[ralis]

There have been a number of people that have died in their attempts to live off the air chi etc.

[ShenLung]

There have been a number of people that have died in their attempts to live off the air chi etc.

 

Most notably bretharians; from what I can tell, they tend to be a bit cultish. Some have been successful, but I feel that the main flaw in the approach is that they seem to be fixated on the effect (doing without food) rather than cultivating the cause (gathering qi energy from their environment). Typically, if one goes without food for extended periods, one will starve to death (generally within 1 and 1/2 months, 2 at the longest).

 

between one and five percent of the energy used is consumed in the digestion of food. GIven the poor quality of a western diet, this percentage may be much, much greater. Nearly twenty percent of the energy used is consumed in performing work- more or less depending on the level of physical activity, and the efficiency that one uses energy. Fifty to eighty percent of all energy used by a person is in simply maintaining normal bodily function and temperature.

 

In warm environments, the appetite lessens. There is no need for great meals to sustain basic function, as the body naturally absorbs some of the energy it requires from the envirionment, even if the person has no expereience with energy work.

 

Qi in the air? Yes, but I believe that the opposite is true: The qi has air, the qi has bodies, the qi has physical manifestations. One cannot live on the qi of air alone. One notable is rumored to have said "man does not live by bread (Gu) alone". Even the rocks posess qi that can sustain life for those who can access it; the stars have qi, have life force for those who can access it.

 

This phenomena is not the goal in and of itself. It is merely a side effect of seeking a higher path, the understanding of the nature and meaning of life. It does mankind no good, if one can sustain one's own life on the qi of the universe, if one should then turn their backs on mankind, leaving only rocks behind.

Edited December 24, 2012 by ShenLung

[doc benway]

In my view, attempting to live without food and drink is distinctly anti-Daoist. Daoism is about being natural, unforced, un-contrived. It is about being an authentic human. Humans are blessed with a mouth, teeth, taste, hunger, thirst, and an elegant digestive system. To try and eschew those natural endowments and requirements to follow an idea created by the ego-mind is folly. But then again, it does seem that foolishness is the natural tendency of many humans as well...

 

The other error here is the idea that Qi is a nutrient. In my experience, whatever it is that we label with the symbols Q and I, or C, H, and I, is much more pervasive and fundamental and much less tangible and substantive than that.

Edited December 25, 2012 by steve

[ShenLung]

The other error here is the idea that Qi is a nutrient. In my experience, whatever it is that we label with the symbols Q and I, or C, H, and I, is much more pervasive and fundamental and much less tangible and substantive than that.

 

I agree, the cultish following seems to be asking more of qi than it could provide. If the body is like an office building, and the qi could be likened to a maintenance man, he could be incredibly energetic- running around fixing things all of the time. If the building materials needed to do repairs were to run out, however, the cleverness and industriousness of even the most skilled maintenance man could not compensate for this fundemental lacking. The building would fall into disrepair.

 

Doing without water, as some stories have it, seems unlikely. The tissues in the final few feet of intestines ordinarily reabsorb water from the feces before excretion. Water need not be consumed by way of the mouth; if one has abstained from drinking water for an extended period of time, the body will naturally attempt to gain hydration by the reverse route - during a bath, for example. This seems to me a good way of introducing unwanted organisms to the body, not healthy.