Reverse & Vase Breathing.

[Ish]

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Edited October 27, 2016 by Ish

[GrandmasterP]

Nope.

Tongue behind upper teeth and breathe in through nose down into LDT.

Drop tongue behind lower teeth and exhale through mouth using relevant sound as required.

All else is simply window dressing and yogic faff getting you nowhere except dizzy.

[ShenLung]

I use bellows breathing all of the time, unless I'm doing weidan, and then I still do bellows breathing, but conciously seperate it into two stages ... Not that it makes a difference to the qi, but it is a way of being mindful of the breath. Other breathing techniques come into play depending upon what I want to do with qi, but this is more of a mental marker, too. If you don't need the extra mindplay, I wouldn't bother with it.

 

All kinds of paths, no one right way. Don't forget to enjoy the flowers, they're lovely!

 

(edit) leaving the above as it is, but adding this notation: It does matter, not merely as a mental artifice as I had assumed. Today, while giving instructions for a cleansing breath technique that I had developed for myself, before I had even started giving direction on the meditation associated with it, I had a student begin trying the breath. Leaping to conclusions before the basic instruction had been completed -- I caught her in mid -exhale through the nose!! tongue down, at least, but she still managed to give herself an instant fever, and done for the day.

 

Saftey tip: Must listen to all instructions thouroughly before trying new techniques.

Edited December 30, 2012 by ShenLung

[Ish]

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Edited October 27, 2016 by Ish

[GrandmasterP]

Why thank you ish.

One lives to serve.

Dizzy yet?

Edited December 22, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Ish]

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Edited October 27, 2016 by Ish

[GrandmasterP]

 

 

It wasn't a complement so no need to thank me.

 

Nope my main cultivation doesn't involve controlling the breathing. Yet again you miss the mark.

 

Thank god I have you on ignore, only read it since you post in my thread.

 

Best way, but thank you for sharing that little bit of yourself.

[konchog uma]

most people that talk a lot don't say much.

 

is vase breathing the same as is used in tummo? i have never really learned that or come across it before except in what i think is the tummo literature. Not sure if i am remembering correctly tho

 

i don't really practice reverse breathing except when i am sick, which is almost never. i am not a big fan of controlling the breathing, except a tiny bit, to create a gap between inbreath and outbreath instead of a continuous flow. I find that helpful at times for stillness sake. Aside from that, and a few other exceptions, im like you ish, mostly into uncontrived methods of breathing during cultivation.

[GrandmasterP]

I do agree anamatva, and good manners cost nothing either..

In Zen achery they teach you to breathe in on the main draw, exhale on the final last bit of the draw and then be still without breath as you release the arrow.

Once it has struck home only then do you inhale again.

Any cultivation contrary to physiological process is not to be recommended.

If cultivation is not natural then it must be artifice.

Hal & waj states in sufism and the wilder flights of our yogic chums are all via mucking about with breathing. Cheaper than drugs and does much the same job but not something you'd necessarily want your kids messing about with.

Edited December 22, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Ish]

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Edited October 27, 2016 by Ish

[konchog uma]

ive had the same experience with reverse breathing. Sometimes i apply the 3 locks too, which is also best done very gently.

 

i have never tried vase breathing, because the cautions of the writers who describe it say that one should learn it from a master. Its obviously very powerful, and i respect that enough to stay away from it until properly initiated. I study under a Kagyu lama, but i have not progressed to the point where i could learn tummo yet. Maybe in a couple years..

[konchog uma]

Any cultivation contrary to physiological process is not to be recommended.

If cultivation is not natural then it must be artifice.

 

not to be recommended by whom? there are plenty of good techniques which involve breath control. Buddhism, daoism, and yoga are full of them. i don't think things are as black and white as your last statement indicates. you aren't actually a grandmaster are you?

 

fyi i have you on ignore too (nothing personal you just talk too much) and so if i miss your posts or dont respond thats why

[Ish]

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Edited October 27, 2016 by Ish

[GrandmasterP]

Ignorance is always an option I suppose, and it would be a sad old world were all to be of the same mind.

[konchog uma]

No idea ish, i have never even asked my lama about learning the inner yogas. I am just taking things one step at a time.. right now i am doing ngondro (preliminary practices) and after that there will be tantric vows and empowerments and after That, i can perhaps start talking to him about tummo and inner yogas. He is more of a mahamudra teacher anyway, so he might send me away to some other lama to learn that stuff, i have no idea. He teaches phowa (transference of consciousness at the time of death) to people who havent taken tantric vows though, and that is an inner yoga, but thats the only clue i have.

[konchog uma]

Ignorance is always an option I suppose, and it would be a sad old world were all to be of the same mind.

 

its not because you think differently, its because you usually arent talking about what the thread is about, and its usually about nothing that interests me. i find it annoying, and rather than be annoyed, i just chose to ignore you.

 

there are people i ignore because i think they are assholes, and for what its worth, you arent one of them. If i saw you in a teahouse i would have a cup with you, i just find that your posts tend to be almost entirely extraneous.

 

i meant it when i said nothing personal.. i hope you dont take it that way

[dawei]

Drop tongue behind lower teeth and exhale through mouth using relevant sound as required.

I am curious about this as it treats Qi as at a specific location rather than moving continuously through the MCO.

 

While our mind might be at a location (moving location to location), the Qi is always moving and ever-present.

 

While I would agree that the drop will do little negatively like cause Qi buildup as we are usually not having our tongue at the fire position (although I try to leave mine there 24/7) and it will travel through the jaw to connect to the conception vessel...

 

I would be interested to hear the reason for the tongue drop.

[Seth Ananda]

Reverse breathing is very valuable.

It is brilliant for generating heat and energy for the LDT. {much faster than abdominal breathing}

 

Ignore GMP's advice on this one. There would not be a single Tummo master in Tibet without reverse breathing, and all of them are far beyond GMP's abilities...

Reverse breathing is used in most advanced Taoist practices. Johny Chang, Wang Liping, Chunyi Lin.. and the list will just go on and on...

 

But thats all just window dressing and yogic faff... lol

[GrandmasterP]

 

I am curious about this as it treats Qi as at a specific location rather than moving continuously through the MCO.

 

While our mind might be at a location (moving location to location), the Qi is always moving and ever-present.

 

While I would agree that the drop will do little negatively like cause Qi buildup as we are usually not having our tongue at the fire position (although I try to leave mine there 24/7) and it will travel through the jaw to connect to the conception vessel...

 

I would be interested to hear the reason for the tongue drop.

.......

How I was taught it sorta completes a circuit, the metaphor GM Chang who taught us used was electrical wiring, but it is only a metaphor for ease of visualisation.

Say you are doing MCO.

On breathe in with tongue up the circuit is open down, round and up from LDT to the sinuses/ third eye. Then drop tongue to create the circuit from third eye back down to LDT and breathe out.

Also by breathing out through mouth you can articulate the required sound if you are doing those.

[GrandmasterP]

Reverse breathing is very valuable.

It is brilliant for generating heat and energy for the LDT. {much faster than abdominal breathing}

 

Ignore GMP's advice on this one. There would not be a single Tummo master in Tibet without reverse breathing, and all of them are far beyond GMP's abilities...

Reverse breathing is used in most advanced Taoist practices. Johny Chang, Wang Liping, Chunyi Lin.. and the list will just go on and on...

 

But thats all just window dressing and yogic faff... lol

..............

If it works for anyone who needs to believe in it then by all means order the books or DVDs and go for it but if you can attain the same results naturally then why waste money buying , in order to use; artificial 'man made' means?

Techniques sell DVDs and books.

I've met the DL who was a neighbour, his winter palace was, and is ; not far from our compound in Hubli. The old boy appeared to be breathing in and out quite normally in the same way as everyone else in the room was.

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[konchog uma]

why would the dalai lama be doing reverse or vase breathing in a public gathering? of course he was breathing normally, unfortunately that proves nothing.

 

you don't know what he does when he practices in private, so there is no point in talking about who you've met in the context of a discussion about meditation practice.

 

what IS relevant is that there are all kinds of breathing methods, and some of them, although not approved by GrandmasterP, are effective nonetheless! And it is those methods that we are talking about! Why dont you start a thread about ordinary breathing where we can talk about ordinary breathing if we so choose? And quit derailing this thread about VASE and REVERSE breathing with your unfounded criticisms.

 

If you lived in the himalayas and practiced tummo, you wouldnt do it "quite normally" you would do it with reverse and vase breathing. And if you needed to stay warm on a frozen night then i guess we would all see how quickly you "needed to believe it".

 

sheesh

[GrandmasterP]

Buddy if that shit worked the DL and his entourage would not decamp from the chilly north to the balmy climes of South India each and every winter.

Those guys love the warm weather a much as the rest of us do and if you really think that Tibetan monks are daft enough to sit outside in the snow meditating for fun then you are sadly disillusioned and have possibly never spent time in the Himalaya.

Up north in India they sit indoors with charcoal braziers, gas fires or kerosene heaters on full blast in order to keep cosy and warm.

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[konchog uma]

so your logic is that because the dalai lama travels, tummo doesnt work

 

http://yourlogicalfa...com/false-cause

 

halarious.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/wimhof1

http://www.icemanwimhof.com/en-home

 

back to ignoring your posts, goodbye

Edited December 23, 2012 by anamatva

[GrandmasterP]

I learnt a while back that any attempt to convince or convert a 'true believer' is futile..

You go right on believing whatever suits you young man. Until you wake up.

[Jetsun]

One of the reasons to do Vase Breathing is to stabilise your "lung" in its home below the navel, the consequence of this is that you have a clearer mind and more stable emotions. I can't compare it to reverse breathing but vase breathing helps, Tsoknyi Rinpoche explains this in his latest book where he also comments that if you look at the Dalai Lamas face he has a lot of clarity there and his eyes are clear which means he has his "lung" stabilised down at its home most of the time, but this doesn't have to be done using contrived breathing methods he explains resting in Rigpa can do the same thing. So don't expect these Buddhists to always be walking around doing Tummo all the time the basic method of stabilisation is to maintain a small amount of breath below the navel which would be impossible for someone on the outside to observe, or even better to maintain non dual consciousness throughout the day then all that needs to be done gets done effortlessly.