Enlightenment - the Short Way

[Vmarco]

Death to the fiction and illusion maybe.

 

How do you kill something that never existed?

[Vmarco]

Hi Vmarco,

 

But, I do not consider compassion (or universal love) as "new agey". Describing compassion and outpourings of divine love are part of both Buddhist and Hindu traditions. They can be somewhat helpful (or fingers pointing) in describing the "realized state".

 

Also, as we have discussed in other threads, I disagree with your description of "light". It has nothing to do with the normal light of the "gross level physical senses". Perception of the true light is beyond the mind (or 6 senses) as your quote above also states. In addition, the six senses are really just the mind's interpretation of energy, so noticing energy can be a very useful tool in noticing the inherent nature of mind.

 

Rather than your iceberg analogy, I would suggest a blackboard analogy... When looking at a blackboard, everyone reads the chalk writing and ignores that the writing is just a small subset of the blackboard. To "notice" the blackboard, one needs to spend some time clearing/erasing the board to notice that everything really happens on the blackboard (not the chalk writing).

 

 

1. Universal love or Oneness is still ego consciousness. Until emptiness is realized, all love is conditional. There is no "divinity." Divine compassion would be an oxymoron.

 

Ponder on the bodhisattva vow. The wish for the liberation of all sentient beings. What sentient being wishes to be liberated from what they cling to the most?

 

2. "Normal light", that is, the light or eletrodynamic spectrum perceived by the 6 senses, cannot be understood without Undivided Light. Near all of the science haven't a clue about the nature of light. And yet,...from all I've read of Taoism and Buddhism from before the Great Terma (13th century CE), they understood the nature of Light from Light's point of view,....that is, that Light travels no distance, in no time, and has no need for speed.

 

The thread on "Absolute Present" may be helpful:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/25705-the-absolute-present/page__hl__vmarco#entry380363

 

As the nature of mind arises from energy, many say it is doubtful, some say impossible, for energy to guide one to anything meaningful. Energy is nothing but the consequence of the delusion of separation seeking source,...which it can never find, because energy is an illusion.

 

3. Like you blackboard analogy,...it's most about unlearning. Asians have called the process Neti-Neti,...not this, not that. That is, reducing everything,...all falsity.

[Vmarco]

So, with great trepidation I enter this thread, in the hopes of shining light on the darkness that is spreading from within it. For this thread is one of misinformation, one that seems more invested in proposition and supposition than actual experience. First, I have experienced emptiness and I know what it is, that is why I can tell you, VMarco, that you have absolutely no understanding of what you are talking about.

 

Yes,...there are obviously several TTBers who feel that they have experienced emptiness. This comment is not meant for them,...for they are obviously enlightened beings,...however, for those not enlightened, and interested in the subject of emptiness, I have attempted to keep this thread very synonymous with Karl Brunnholzl' The Heart Attack Sutra, which comments quite extensively on the subject.

 

As for myself, emptiness has been a primary subject since 1974 since first reading Tilopa's Mahamudra. I can assure you, that loving others as you love your 6 senses will not bring one anywhere near to uncovering what is necessary to realize emptiness.

 

This thread is an attempt to introduce the prajnaparamita view of emptiness,...not the imagined experiences of self-acclaimed enlightened ones. The summary of the whole of prajnaparamita is said to be the Heart Sutra. The best commentary I've even seen on the subject is the above Heart Attack Sutra. Not a single one of my 1357 posts have contradicted the Heart Sutra.

 

"Contradictions in perspective among those Seeing the profound do not occur" Taranatha

 

I also regularly use quotes from the Hua Hu Ching,...and do not contadict it. There is no reason to contradict it.

 

Be very cautious however of those proselytizing about "others to come to their truth"...or coming to their own truth. Ego will never allow one to come to truth, for it would, from ego's point of view, kill ego. This leaves, as I've mentioned in the treads first post, about 20% (maybe 1 in 5 members) who can realize that experience born of belief, can only be experience through the condition of that belief.

 

Those who claim enlightenment, or having had experienced emptiness, and yet are pushers of beliefs, conditions, and morals, do not want you reading and comprehending books like the Heart Attack Sutra.

 

One of my favorite quote on morals came from a Zen Buddhist,..."Morality can only be imposed from without when we are asleep. It can only be pseudo, false, a façade, it cannot become your real being…morality is bound to be nothing but a deep suppression. You cannot do anything while asleep; you can only suppress. And through morality, you will become false. You will not be a person, but simply a "persona"—just a pseudo-entity. . . . Only a dishonest person can be moral."

[GrandmasterP]

Well we've been here before for sure with subjective morality eh Aaron?

It's like reading an improving sermon, and as much utility; is reading your posts VMarco and no mistake.

Were you not happier back when you were an active Xtian buddy?

[Marblehead]

Hay GrandPa P, if there's no enlightenment what's all the fuss about?

If someone were to get there, enlightened, then what would they do then?

Try to be normal? Err, or would they disappear?

I posted this some place else on the forum:

 

Chop wood, carry water.

Attain enlightenment.

Chop water, carry wood.

 

Don't lose your Self.

[GrandmasterP]

Hay GrandPa P, if there's no enlightenment what's all the fuss about?

If someone were to get there, enlightened, then what would they do then?

Try to be normal? Err, or would they disappear?

........

Suddenly, there seems to be a shift and an impersonal realisation that this is already wholeness. The boundless, naked, innocent, free-floating and wonderful simplicity of beingness is already all there is . . . it is extraordinary in its ordinariness and yet it cannot be described.

[GrandmasterP]

My granddaughters call me GrandpaP.

Is it money you are after?

Those two usually are.

:-)

[C T]

...

Edited December 24, 2012 by C T

[Jeff]

 

1. Universal love or Oneness is still ego consciousness. Until emptiness is realized, all love is conditional. There is no "divinity." Divine compassion would be an oxymoron.

 

Ponder on the bodhisattva vow. The wish for the liberation of all sentient beings. What sentient being wishes to be liberated from what they cling to the most?

 

2. "Normal light", that is, the light or eletrodynamic spectrum perceived by the 6 senses, cannot be understood without Undivided Light. Near all of the science haven't a clue about the nature of light. And yet,...from all I've read of Taoism and Buddhism from before the Great Terma (13th century CE), they understood the nature of Light from Light's point of view,....that is, that Light travels no distance, in no time, and has no need for speed.

 

The thread on "Absolute Present" may be helpful:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/25705-the-absolute-present/page__hl__vmarco#entry380363

 

As the nature of mind arises from energy, many say it is doubtful, some say impossible, for energy to guide one to anything meaningful. Energy is nothing but the consequence of the delusion of separation seeking source,...which it can never find, because energy is an illusion.

 

3. Like you blackboard analogy,...it's most about unlearning. Asians have called the process Neti-Neti,...not this, not that. That is, reducing everything,...all falsity.

 

Hi Vmarco,

 

I had a tougher time understanding your intention/point with the above message, but thank you for breaking it into 3 sections...

 

1. As I have said in my previous messages, I agree that Buddha compassion/universal love can really only happen after one realizes emptiness (otherwise it is conditional). But, "oneness" is the integration of compassion/universal love into all of existence. It requires one to re-enter the world (to connect with everything). This is what a Buddha does with the bodhisattva vow.

 

J. McKenna (books 1&2) are what happens when one stops with only emptiness/nothingness. It often becomes nihilism. Please consider reading book 3 and you will see that he begins to realize that there is so much more than just nothingness (human adulthood).

 

2. I would also agree that the absolute present thread is both good and interesting. As your link above shows, I have been an active participant of the thread. By your adding it, were you advocating a position? Agreeing with SJ?

 

Regarding energy... Everything that exists (including percieved mind) is a form of light/energy. If one can see/feel that one begins to truly realize emptiness and impermanence. I have found that there are four main types/spectrums of energy/light. Body energy, mind energy, existence/creation light and primordial light. Body & mind energy is a subset of of existence/creation light which is itself a subset (or reflection of) primordial light.

 

In Buddhist terms building the "body of light" is the realization/integration of existence/creation light. Oneness is just a way of describing what happens as part of building the body of light. Buddhahood is the realization of primordial light (outside time & space).

 

3. Glad you like the blackboard analogy. But, neti-neti is only the "erasing" of parts of the blackboard. Enlightenment is the realization of the blackboard and the understanding that all of the chalk writing (energy/light forms) is also included as part of the blackboard.

 

[Vmarco]

........

Suddenly, there seems to be a shift and an impersonal realisation that this is already wholeness. The boundless, naked, innocent, free-floating and wonderful simplicity of beingness is already all there is . . . it is extraordinary in its ordinariness and yet it cannot be described.

 

Such, as stated above, is a New Age fantasy,...that is, the suggestion that one's personal conditions can uncover Wholeness, while everyone elses conditions must become unconditioned. For those earnist enough, the real shift lies in this, that Wholeness is beyond the sum of opposites. Nothing of duality enters wholeness. The "beingness of ego," never has, and never will be part of Wholeness.

 

An interesting note on being earnest,...

 

"Handa dani bhikkhave amantayami vo: Vayadhamma sankhara appamadena sampadetha."

 

Many consider that to be the last instruction of Shakyamuni Buddha. Some Western translations go like this, "And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

 

However, to "strive with earnestness" does not necessarily point to the essence of appamada, but more to an ego concept. Appamada is synonymous with the Mind at the threshold of the gates of the Six Senses,...that is, our Unborn Consciousness or unindoctrinated Awareness,..not the sense organ of thinking. Appamada is primarily yin or feminine in nature, and as such can only be fully recognized through Heart-Mind. Pamada on the hand, is yang or masculine, and associated with form. Appamada means not pamada. Appamada is difficult to understand by way of the 6 senses.　

 

From a Short Path perspective (that is, those whose practice includes all 4 turnings of the Dharma, or Prajnaparamita), appamada is to yoni (empty), what pamada is to lingam (form). To understand appamada is to realize the message of the Heart sutra.

 

In the Shurangama sutra Buddha said, "From beginningless time until now, all living beings have mistaken themselves for things and, having lost the original mind, are turned around by things." This is a clue to appamada; the Mind at the threshold of the gates of the Six Senses,...that is, our Unborn Awareness. Thus, when considered along with pamada, appamada, is pointing to a primal feminine aspect of nature that can only be recognized through Heart-Mind, which is beyond the 6 senses. Pamada is the masculine, or form (skandhas) based mind.

 

The idea of some that appamada is as "earnest, mindful, energetic care" can be quite deceptive. When Aristotelian Greeks discussed "mind" they pointed to the chest and said Thymos. Today, the psyche is considered mind, and thymos relegated to needless atrophy. Even the definitions of thymos have been altered to reflection the superiorness of the pysche. Note: the double-lobed, butterfly-shaped thymus gland that overlaps the upper portion of the heart, was reported in ancient times to have been larger than the heart. In today's cerebral-centric cultures, the thymus atrophies around puberty to the size of a quarter, or less.

 

Surely meditation is helpful to quiet the 6 senses; because the six senses cannot observe Stillness,...they can only observe motion or vibration (energy). All vibration is in the past. There is no present in time. When we look beyond the point of view of the Six Senses, we can observe what is being observed from the observed point of view. For example, the Six Senses observe the electrodynamic spectrum an exclaims that light travels at 186k mps,...however, from light's point of view, it travels no distance, in no time, and thus has no need of speed.

 

Appamada is aware that humanity is the perception of a projection, 186k mps slower than the Stillness of Light.

"All matter is frozen or slowed down light" David Bohm. Of course, as Charles Haanel said, "The mind cannot comprehend an entirely new idea until a corresponding vibratory brain cell has been prepared to receive it."

 

PS,...an addition note to #54 above for those who take this subject seriously,...the 14th Century Treatise called The Mountain Doctrine can be quite helpful in determining if one's experiences are New Agey ego apparitions, or actually experiencing the profound.

 

"Contradictions in perspective among those Seeing the profound do not occur" Taranatha

[Aaron]

Hi VMarco,

 

Well it seems enough people need to be led by the nose to enlightenment to suit this threads purpose. Good luck on your new world religion, but I would recommend that you stop using the Hua Hu Ching as a source, since you contradict much of what is said in that book as well. What you are professing has little to do with any form of Taoism I know of.

 

Aaron

[Gerard]

.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard

[Vmarco]

To the OP,

 

A lot of external quotes, but what is your personal experience?

 

The point should be that all personal experience is invalid,...a lie,...because the personal sentience is a delusion.

 

Unlike several of TTB, I have no need of admiration or acclaim. If you seek the personal experience of self-professed masters, TTB is full them. Some have even realize the nature of emptiness,...of course their experience contradicts the Heart Sutra, Shantideva, HH Dalai Lama, Robert Thurman, Karl Brunnholzl, Tilopa, Shurangama Sutra, Taranatha, Wie Wu Wie....just to name a few of those I've quoted.

 

Personal experience can never experience enlightenment. Personal experience can never access Heart-Mind. In other words, if you're interested in personal experience, it is likely that you not be seriously interested in enlightenment in this life time.

 

For those who are seriously interested in enlightenment,...one of the first things to accept is that anyone who gives you a belief system or religion, is your enemy. Those who advocate human-ness, do want you to uncover the consciousness you had before you were born. They want you to be as asleep as they are.

 

Since the 1920's, a statistic has been watched by those inclined towards the truth,... which sees that at any given moment, less than .04% of humanity have a sincere interest in enlightenment. Of course that doesn't jive very well with TTB, where there are many, many enlightened beings who have realized emptiness through their personal experience,...although full contradicting the Heart Sutra, Shantideva, HH Dalai Lama, Robert Thurman, Karl Brunnholzl, Tilopa, Shurangama Sutra, Taranatha, Wei Wu Wei, etc.

 

Gurdjieff said, "...consider externally always, internally never."

 

A Spiritual experience does not arise Personal experience,...but at the dissolution or shock of the personal. Personal experience is Ego experience. Ken Wilber had something interesting to say about Ego and the demand for Personal experience of today:

 

"To dare to even speak about radical transformation, let alone call other people to a higher level, is against the unstated rules. And of course, one's definitely going to be put in one's place for doing something like that. But unless the possibility of genuine transformation is actually declared, unless one is willing to demonstrate it publicallyand to call other people to the same, no one is even going to know that it's possible. And than unknowingly, everybody's going to be participating in the conspiracy of mediocrity.

 

The conspiracy of mediocrity is basically the conspiracy to express your own ego instead of transcending it or letting go of it. The idea has become "if I can really emote and express my self-contriction with sincerity, I'm somehow spiritual". Actually, people who are involved in this boomeritis even deny the importance of Enlightenment or Awakening, because that's saying some states are higher than others - and we shouldn't be so judgemental. But guess what? Some states are higher. And so the entire raison d'etre gets tossed out because it offends the pluralistist ego.

 

The spiritual experience, which ideally should be a stepping stone to less ego and greater transparency, has become a victim of our therapeutic culture, where we don't make judgements because that would hurt egoic self-esteem, and so all we do is embrace, console, and celebrate the personal self. Spiritual practice has become nothing more than a form of therapy where self-acceptance rather than ego-transcendence is the goal. And the problem is that therapists are basically pimps for samsara. They want to hold onto the egoic self-contraction and make it feel good about itself.

 

This conspiracy of mediocrity is very unfortunate. The great promise of the human potential movement was very straightforward - there are higher human potentials. Now, from the therapeutic culture, people say, "wait a minute. you're saying there are higher potentials, so does that mean I'm lower? because that can't be right". All of a sudden it implied a judgement, and nobody's allowed to be higher because that means someone else is going to be lower. And you're not allowed to call anybody lower; therefore nobody's allowed to be higher.

 

So the Human Potential movement got derailed and was replaced by this therapeutic self-expression, self-acceptence movement, which catastrophically prevents higher transformation and mystical breakthroughs. What is missing in the New Age Community is real intellectual vigor. Under the therapeutic culture, if you feel good, you're enlightened. That is mediocrity, and a conspiracy toward mediocrity."

 

In our current therapeutic society people don't want to see that what they thought was meaningful may actually be meaningless".

[Birch]

I posted a link to this in my PPF but I think (yes *think*) that it speaks so very well to this issue that I'll post it here too http://www.amazon.com/The-Guru-Papers-Masks-Authoritarian/dp/1883319005/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356394941&sr=8-1&keywords=Guru+papers

 

Given anything I say will be thrown through the lense of my obvious lack of enlightenment.

[OnPhourCoughee]

Luv ya Doc. Most times Your the only one makes sense, in all the cut n paste.

P.s. Shen just handed me another book on enlightenment. >.>

Edited December 25, 2012 by OnPhourCoughee

[Vmarco]

The authentic Spiritual Teacher can be recognized by how they go about pointing to ways we can loosen our bindings, not their degree of humbleness, personal faith-based knowledge, or how much the majority admires them.

 

In the film 'Words of My Perfect Teacher', a true spiritual teacher is likened to an assassin,...an assassin you hire to kill your ego.

 

"humility is just a degree of pride." Wei Wu Wei (those who ridicule C&P usually have no interest in truth).

 

All authentic bodhisattvas are assassins. They pledge their allegiance to the Spiritual Assassins Oath,...to liberate all sentient being from their delusion in sentience.

 

Dr. Stanley Sobottka, Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Virginia wrote: "The teachings of teachers (gurus) who have responsibility for managing and maintaining ashrams or spiritual centers are likely to be aimed at a larger audience than those who do not, because supporting an ashram requires large amounts of volunteer effort and substantial financial commitments from the disciples. Consequently, such teachings will generally be designed for maximum acceptability. Even teachers who have only small followings, but who depend on their contributions for survival, sometimes will color their teachings to avoid losing their followers."

 

To me, that is dishonesty.

 

A teacher who is not Truth Realized, is of little use in pointing the way to end our suffering.

 

Dzongzar Rinpoche, who is seen as a God in Bhutan and a Buddha among his students in America, calls himself a sycophant (that is a self-seeking flatterer and fawning parasite) who always goes along with what people think. He says "if people think a teacher should shave their head, wear something maroon, walk gently, eat only vegetarian, and be so-called serene, then I'm very tempted to do that....I don't have the guts, the confidence...I'm like these police undercover cops who are sent into a Mafia family. What I'm supposed to do is really check out these people, but I fall in love with what they do, so I follow what they want....I think on both continents (Asia and North America) I have mastered the art of pretense."

 

There are many sycophants who post on TTB.

 

Dr. Stanley Sobottka suggests that "the purest teachings usually come from teachers who are not surrounded and supported by followers or an organization. A good example of such a teaching is Wei Wu Wei, whose books focus on one point and one point only--the absence of personal, individual "I". As a teacher, he led an obscure life, and his books have never had a wide audience."

 

If Buddha, Avalokitesvara, or Tilopa were alive today, not only would their following be very small, but be under constant death threats from sycophant types attached to their beliefs for their identity.

 

An easily accessible dialogue on Truth Realization can be heard from the book Spiritual Enlightenment:

 

[GrandmasterP]

Happy Christmas Vmarco buddy.

May 2013 bring you all and more that you wish for yourself.

[Vmarco]

Happy Christmas Vmarco buddy.

May 2013 bring you all and more that you wish for yourself.

 

I'm not a Christian. However, Merry Mithras to you,...The feast of Mithras was celebrated on the Gregorian equivalent of December 25, which was the first day following the Solstice when the light of the sun was seen returning.

 

The birth of the sun was celebrated with lights, bells, stockings hung from hearths, holly wreaths (symbolizing the cycle of life), wassail, candles, and the mystery and joy of gift-giving. Befana, the goddess cult of Bari, was said to have traveled by wolf drawn sleigh to fill childrens stockings with gifts.

 

Buddhists and serious Taoists are more into natures calendar. Many mandala gateways are based on the Cardinal points, while the corners represent mid-points or 15 degress of Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, and Aquarious.

 

As a bodhisattva, my only wish is for the liberation of sentient being's clinging to the delusion of sentience for their identity,...as thousands of other's have done.

 

"As soon as one sense-organ returns to the source, All the six are liberated." Avalokitesvara

[OnPhourCoughee]

It's ok Christmas isn't Christian anysways. Happy Holidays with your family.

[OnPhourCoughee]

I'm sorry. There is truth in everything even cut n paste. It is not personal, from the heart, and starts to look like an over hammered nail.

[Vmarco]

It's ok Christmas isn't Christian anysways. Happy Holidays with your family.

 

Christmas is Christian, and promotes the Christian delusion.

 

Christian calendarics muddies our view and understanding of the nature of time and timelessness. The Gregorian calendar denies zero, whereas the much older and more accurate Maya calendar encourages a sapiential connection with the natural rhythms of time and those things upon which time effects its motion. To be connected with spirit is to flow with the spiritual without hesitation. Spirit is often associated with water, and water flows, as in a river. Martin Schulman pointed out that the river moves, floats, winds, and curves, yet as soon as we impose our predispositions and conditions on the nature of river, we lose our access to and our recognition of spirit. Religions such as Christianity, along with their instruments of propaganda, such as the Gregorian calendar, step between us and our direct experience of spirit.

　

 

Christianity wants us to think that spirit can only be accessed through accepting their Jesus. They want us to think that love can only be had through the conditions of bearing, believing, hoping, and enduring, as in their scriptures (such as 1 Cor. 13:7). That is not love; that is the submission, devotion, expectation, and suffering to the conditions of their beliefs.

 

To establish peace, love, and a connection with spirituality in the world, we need a profound shift in our everyday consciousness that can be facilitated through a "natural calendar" one based on natural time. The CRFC (Calendar Reform for the Future of Civilization) pointed out that "by rational discourse and common sense, it has been determined that the Gregorian calendar does not represent a true or accurate standard of measure or belong to any systematic science of time, and hence, is worthy of reform." That is to say, as the sword is an anachronism in modern warfare, the Gregorian calendar is, as Rick McCarty says, "an anachronistic scheme serving the interests of men in a pre-scientific, theocratic society with a feudal economy." The Christian calendar encourages neither spirituality nor an awakening of who we are. It stimulates unrest, disempowerment, conflict, unrighteous intolerance, and violence.

 

A natural calendar based on the natural rhythms of earth and our relationship within the universe would promptly change everything. Our activities would ensue through an atmosphere of connectivity, versus an environment that arose from spiritually limiting Aristotelian logic and dissynchronizing theocratic beliefs. We are where our attention is. If our attention functions within a religio-centric environment, there is an obscuring of our spiritual essence. It doesn’t matter whether we think that we are becoming more spiritual; we simply are not, and we cannot cultivate the sapientialness of spirituality upon a dogmatic sciential/sentient foundation. Christianity is a patriarchal, cerebrally invented religion whose intent is to perpetuate an inferior humanity.

[Vmarco]

I'm sorry. There is truth in everything even cut n paste. It is not personal, from the heart, and starts to look like an over hammered nail.

 

That which arises from the Heart is never personal. You're confusing New Age Cerebral-centricness with truth realization.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Vmarco

[manitou]

a convoluted thread!

 

From my perspective, going back to the monkeys for a moment, covering their mouths, eyes, ears. If we shut off all our senses - we don't hear anything, smell anything, make any noise or think anything - then all we are left with is this hulking warm creature that dwells inside us. All it 'feels' is its contact to gravity - the feel of weight on the bottom of our feet, or buttocks. It is this hulking warm creature that we all possess - it is the same in all. Without thought, we appreciate nothing more than the hulking warm feeling of it being contained within our body. This to me is close to nothingness.

 

I think Jesus knew what he was talking about when he said 'be in the world but not of it' - this is the detachment that the buddhist, the taoist, the sage, the master, the shaman looks for. And to achieve the capacity for true compassion it necessitates doing it from a perspective where self is not in the front seat. I agree that it is not a feeling - that it is a verb. We choose to be lovers. And to be a true lover, we must tame the wild animals inside us - the peacock, the lion, the pig, the hyena, the monkey....all of them.

 

The hardest person to love is usually the ones we are closest to - our kin, sometimes even our spouse. Those who know us down to the bone and who can push our buttons at a moment's notice. I think the trick is to file down the buttons so there are no longer any to push. It is only after the buttons are removed and the selfishnesses are removed from our own personalities that we achieve the kind of clarity to know how to 'love' another. It takes a very lucid person to see what it actually is that another person really needs - one can only see this from the Oneness mindset, and in order to get to the Oneness mindset it has to be done with our own contortions removed.

 

How to remove them? By an intentional internal process. Or, it can be unintentional; only the Spirit (or Tao) will be leading the way, in and out of situations that will knock the tar out of that particular character defect; over and over until we get the message. Or...the easier way is to do it willfully and develop what they call the Christ Consciousness to view ourselves as we really are. Looking at ourselves without getting defensive and justifying our wrong behaviors, or blaming others, usually our parents.

 

To understand wu-wei is to know that there is a force in charge that knows better than we do how the proper alignment should be. Call it gravity or mutual attraction. In any event, in order to tap into it we need to keep our hands off the object of concern, and trust that it will resolve without our hands on it. When the situation requires an action from us, it needs to be done with the most loving (and truthful) heart possible; if we can get to pure love and pure truth, without putting our own needs and desires first, then we are well on the path to enjoying the wu-wei in our lives.

[Vmarco]

a convoluted thread!

 

From my perspective, going back to the monkeys for a moment, covering their mouths, eyes, ears. If we shut off all our senses - we don't hear anything, smell anything, make any noise or think anything - then all we are left with is this hulking warm creature that dwells inside us. All it 'feels' is its contact to gravity - the feel of weight on the bottom of our feet, or buttocks. It is this hulking warm creature that we all possess - it is the same in all. Without thought, we appreciate nothing more than the hulking warm feeling of it being contained within our body. This to me is close to nothingness.

 

I think Jesus knew what he was talking about when he said 'be in the world but not of it' -

 

Convoluted can point to a variety of things. In one sense, the idea that Jesus ever said anything worthwhile is convoluted, as it is a twisted version of history. Most religious scholars would agree that Jesus never said "be in the world but not of it." For example, in the 1980s, Biblical scholars concluded that only the word father could be traced to Matthew’s so-called Sermon on the Mount. The greater part of the sermon consisted of words placed in Jesus’ mouth by others long after he was dead. During that same period in the 1980s, over a hundred Bible scholars at another seminar agreed that Jesus never promised to return and that he never had any intention of starting a religion. Commenting on these scholars’ conclusions, the Jesuit Rev. Edward Beutner said, "These are not maverick scholars; they take a very careful approach to how sayings were transmitted and evolved in the Bible texts."

 

As this is a Daoist forum, Lao-zu takes precedence over Christianity.

 

"the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totally fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go." Lao-tzu

 

Of course, ego clings to the 6 senses, and will kill to protect them. To ego, the 6 senses represents one's treasured human-ness. In the below youtube,..check out how many times the term human-ness is used:

[GrandmasterP]

Well it's nice to have a bodisatva (Sp?) posting here on TTB.

Christmas is Xtian for the Xtians and prezzie-tide for some of us non-Xtians.

Most of the old churches round these parts are built on formerly pagan high sites and earthworks.

Our village church is 10th century Saxon (with any amount of bits added over the years) and there's a fine Green Man carved above the chancel. They are forever digging up far older pre Xtian bits and bobs locally.

The Xtians simply bolted their bits and bobs onto the locals existing customs and deities in order to assure continuity.