GrandmasterP Posted December 27, 2012 If it was down to us perceiving them to be 'thus and so' then wouldn't their bodshisatva-ness be kinda conditional? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Yes. thankyou for quoting that. are there bhodisattvas which dont give off smoke? the type that have the action of a bhodisattva due to the way that we receive them, purely? the bhodisattva being in the eye of the beholder, as it were. Exactly right. They all exist in the eye of the beholder. There are no bodhisattvas outside of one's mind. Do people really think the halo depicted in all the images of saints and sages are self-generated? "Hey im a bodhisattva, give me one of those halos, or else... " Nope, its one of a handful of symbols of veneration ~ a supreme sign of illumination as recognized by others. Self-professed ones come cheap, but could in fact end up costing one dearly. Edited December 27, 2012 by C T 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShenLung Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Where there are corpses, the birds gather, also. Sky burial is an intresting custom; the body goes back into nature very quickly. The following is apocryphal; any semblence to the experience of any person, living or dead is purely coincidence: There once was a man who, upon undergoing hypnosis, was able to recall a past life as a mule. When asked about the life experience, he said, "The food was plain, but plentiful. I worked hard nearly every day of my life, and my owner beat me repeatedly." Asked if he bore any ill will towards this cruel owner, he replied, "No, he is a saint; if it had not been for the beating, I would not have desired to be born as a man in a future life." Another: A young man on a spiritual pilgramage was passing through a small villiage near the Wudang mountains. From the locals, he learned of a holy man who had been living on one of the peaks, standing upon a rock for the last 130 years. Not entirely believing the tale, but still fascinated by the possibility of meeting one of those legendary hermits who know the secret of life's meaning, the lad climbed up to the peak. There, sure enough, he found a man, balanced upon one foot atop a large boulder, overlooking a gorge. "are you the man the villiagers speak of, who has perched upon that rock for 130 years?" The boy asked. "Yes." The hermit replied. He shifted his weight forward slightly, and rose up off of the ground so that only the tips of his toes remained attached to the earth. The young man thought the question welling up inside him might be impertinent, but could not restrain his curiosity. "What are you doing?" He asked. The hermit lowered himself, and placed his second foot down, turning slightly to look at the youth. "For the last one hundred and thirty years" he said, "I have been working up the courage to jump." Edited December 27, 2012 by ShenLung 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth Ananda Posted December 27, 2012 Many Tibetan Lamas {unlike vmarco (lol and myself so far) } are amazing examples of the Bodhisattva attainment. Most of the stories I have read were in relationship to Dzogchen practitioners, but to hear about them being tortured in Chinese prison camps, seeing friends and loved ones be tortured and executed, and to never start to hate the Chinese soldiers, and to continue to be compassionate no matter what... Well its amazing. But in this thread we have a person claiming to represent their tradition, often as more of an authority than them themselves, who piles insults on anyone who disagrees with him. I have seen monks hang out with tigers, yet Vmarco refuses to see the Buddha nature in pitbulls, and wishes to deny them the chance of a loving relationship with a good owner. One that may help them change their nature. Who when asked about his personal experience hides behind clever rhetoric, saying that personal experience is utterly worthless.. as if Buddha had no experience to mention... This clever manoeuvre allowed him to avoid the question of his own obvious lack of personal transformation, and keep his 'Teacher' position by turning the question into a teaching rant. He refuses to step out of his 'teacher role' and make friends. This excessive identification with a role should ring warning bells enough. Buddha happily taught Hindu's and people from other religions, but vmarco spends all of his time insulting them, and their personal morality. He has an extremely inflexible mind. It once took me three days of back and forwards, just to get him to consider that different schools in Hinduism, may have different conceptions of Brahman. He conceded that point after massive effort. He doesn't really think about the points others make. He jumps to an immediate conclusion based on some 'key word' the person uses, and starts preparing his lengthy list of out of context quotes to 'smash' them with. The monks I have received teachings from, were so careful to really 'get' what a person was saying or meaning, and are all superb teachers. Real Teachers exude compassion. They are kind and tolerant, humble and patient. Their patience is what wins over their students less desirable qualities. False teachers and cult leaders wont admit their faults. Ever. Vmarco is one of these. False teachers will try to hide their character floors behind arguments like: "My lack of compassion is actually real compassion!" Vmarco says this over and over as he vigorously defends his hate filled perspectives. His mind is poisonous. And he is lying to you all. He doesnt care about you. He cares about being seen as an authority, and he will use any tactic he can to defend that position. He says he is fairly non cerebral. This is just hilarious. Is is robotic in his responses. He claims to value the Feminine, yet is completely body, sense and world denying, in favour of a detached unmoving and un-flowing state of existence... The Idea that he could take anyone anywhere of value is ludicrous. That would mean you would end up like him. Anyone who thinks he has something of value to offer here should instead look to the sources he parrots. Buddha, and the monks who are actually peaceful and loving. Whos brains have achieved incredible differences when scanned. Something VM has none of. And Walter Russell. A genius who was intriguing to Nichola Tesla, and who was a Mystic in deep communion with existence, in an {Oh no! the Horror!} Theistic way... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustARandomPanda Posted December 27, 2012 Anyone who thinks he has something of value to offer here should instead look to the sources he parrots. In my opinion this is always a good thing to do if possible. Ultimately other people's threads, commentaries, shastras, etc are all 'beautiful stories' that don't do you a lick of good unless/until you do the work yourself. All Buddha (or Lao Tzu or Chang Tzu or Confucius, etc) did was hand his students a "map". He couldn't traverse the territory for them. Still...some "maps" are more useful than others imo. And Walter Russell. A genius who was intriguing to Nichola Tesla, and who was a Mystic in deep communion with existence, in an {Oh no! the Horror!} Theistic way... Yes. Russell has some amazing things to say! Definitely a mystic. Everything he teaches he learned while in mystical states (samadhi, dhyana, etc). I've got A New Concept of the Universe and it's just fantastic. Highly recommended. Would also recommend Itzak Bentov's A Brief Tour of Higher Consciousness He was also a mystic. The cartoons that illustrate concepts in the text are delightful and actually helpful imo for understanding things that seem to come across better as a symbol or picture than as a bunch of words. Would also recommend people check out Rupert Sheldrake's latest book Science Set Free (US version) / The Science Delusion (UK version). Sheldrake's book will be an eye-opener of just how shaky the foundations of modern physics really is. No doubt physicists themselves are aware of it but until somebody comes along and offers a better, simpler, more accurate explanation that yet can still yield accurate predictions they all have to keep using what they've got in the meantime - even if they know it's really 'not all that' so to speak... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Anyone who has experienced enlightenment understands the virtue of compassion. There is honestly no easier way to reach enlightenment than to practice compassion with every fiber of your being. If you can do that, nothing else is needed. Seems to be the easiest way in my opinion, but for the vast majority of us, giving up our attachments to those people, ideas, and things we hate is too much for us. the enlightened man gives water to not only the thirsty child, but the murderer as well. Unless one experiences enlightenment this will always baffle them on some level. Aaron Edited December 27, 2012 by Aaron 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 27, 2012 Trouble with prophets in general is that the closer to the truth they are maybe the less folk want to listen to them. This reminded me of ET. Claims to have the truth but no one wants to listen to him. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
三江源 Posted December 27, 2012 Exactly right. They all exist in the eye of the beholder. There are no bodhisattvas outside of one's mind. In which case we can find 'compassion' where we will. And not find it, also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Personally I can have more compassion to "murderers, drug addicts" etc etc because my mind has labelled them as such and I dont take them so seriously. A little more effort is required for people whos opinions I value and also seem to possess personality traits or behaviours I resist in myself or who are doing things which go against any hidden desires for approval, security, control, existence etc Edited December 27, 2012 by sinansencer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) This reminded me of ET. Claims to have the truth but no one wants to listen to him. Not 100% sure on this, someone who exudes peace, truth, love, harmony/wisdom, people will likely feel something from. People who are getting angry at the state of others not being enlightened/lifestyle choices, judging others etc usually rub people the wrong way and are proving something. (sometimes I do this too) Edited December 27, 2012 by sinansencer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) In which case we can find 'compassion' where we will. And not find it, also. Ah, true on some level. On some other level, Compassion seeks out the lowliest places, places where its needed, without a 'we' having to ask for its presence. It works mysteriously, akin to the 'holy spirit', i guess. This is evident in those who experience profound turnarounds in their lives, usually at the precipices of utter desolation and on the brink of complete abandonment of clutching at something called 'life', does Compassion manifest. She can come in many forms, in as many 'faces'. Not the only times when She manifests, though. The chirping of a bird... that, for some, is a work of Compassion too. And, telling someone to wake up from the dream that he or she is a bodhisattva, that is also an activity borne of Compassion. Its not always necessarily soft, but the essence of its arising is always at the heart. Edited December 27, 2012 by C T Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 27, 2012 Not 100% sure on this, someone who exudes peace, truth, love, harmony/wisdom, people will likely feel something from. People who are getting angry at the state of others not being enlightened/lifestyle choices, judging others etc usually rub people the wrong way and are proving something. (sometimes I do this too) Well, by far you are not the only one. But I do try hard (not always successful) to not make subjective judgement calls on another's values. And I will agree, one who professes peace, truth, love, etc. will be heard if they speak. There may never be any observable change in the individual being spoken to but that info goes into the subconscious mind and who knows when or if it will resurface into the conscious mind? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted December 27, 2012 yeh...I think its more about actions and feeling behind the words rather than empty talk...when its coming from a place of anger, jealousy, desire etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Im guessing a master will know the perfect thing to say which actually may have nothing logically to do with "teaching" or "being a boddhisattva" or "master" but gets the job done..hmm gets the job done sounds a bit harsh more emerges one into the state of harmony in a non doing way, spontaneously... Edited December 27, 2012 by sinansencer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 27, 2012 yeh...I think its more about actions and feeling behind the words rather than empty talk...when its coming from a place of anger, jealousy, desire etc Agree. Actions always speak louder than words. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 27, 2012 Im guessing a master will know the perfect thing to say which actually may have nothing logically to do with "teaching" or "being a boddhisattva" or "master" but gets the job done..hmm gets the job done sounds a bit harsh more emerges one into the state of harmony in a non doing way, spontaneously... Yes, descriptive terms are only helpful up to a point. Past that, who knows? At the end of the day, what counts is the intent behind the activity, its direction, and to move to where one needs to get to. After the crossing, why carry the boat on one's back? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 27, 2012 ... what counts is the intent behind the activity, ... I just wanted to repeat this because it is important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted December 27, 2012 What's inside tends to pop out every now and again. Nobody's perfect after all. I was a bit ticked off with Vmarco telling someone on here that they were not enlightened but then I get right up some peoples noses too. I'm sure the guy means well enough and it can't be easy being a bodhisattva where few seem to want to be bodhisattvad. Just maybe, the guy might be one and we're just not realising it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 27, 2012 Just maybe, the guy might be one and we're just not realising it. Fledglings should instinctively know they are not ready to fly yet. There are those who try to argue that even fledglings should attempt to fly, otherwise they'll never be able to. Such proponents of 'short path' methods are, as Seth wisely said, dangerous to others, especially some whose steps are yet steadied. Your diplomacy could hurt someone. Niceties are reserved for social gatherings. Its good to be mostly polite, but sometimes, those who can see more should forewarn when the territory gets a bit iffy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Fair point. I was aiming for irony (better heard than read). Won't be too many weeks now before our cat is bringing in presumptuous and very unfortunate fledglings who tried to fly whilst yet deficient in wing feathers. Edited December 27, 2012 by GrandmasterP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
