Tibetan_Ice Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Ok. I will spell it out for you: http://en.wikipedia....den_controversy Dorje Shugden is a Dharma Protector of the Gelug tradition, who emerged in the 1700's.[1] However, this Dharma Protector's precise nature as either an enlightened being or a worldly being has been the subject of debate among some adherents of Tibetan Buddhism since his appearance. Georges Dreyfus indicates that Shugden was "a minor though troublesome deity in the Ge-luk pantheon throughout most of the history of this tradition."[2] The situation began to deteriorate in 1975, when a book (henceforth the "Yellow Book") written in Tibetan about Shuk-den by Dze-may Rin-bo-che (1927-1996) was published,[3] which has intensified since 1996[4] when the Fourteenth Dalai Lama issued an "explicit ban,"[5][6][7][8] suppressing the sectarian movement within the Tibetan exile community.[9] The Chinese government demands monks to worship Shugden, in conjunction with forcing them to denounce the Dalai Lama and fly the Chinese national flag.[10] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Shugden Yet, Dorje Shugden's enlightened nature has been debated since his appearance in the 17th century.[8] With the current Dalai Lama's growing public opposition[9][10] and subsequent "explicit ban"[11][12][13][14] of the practice, this debate has escalated into what is known as the Dorje Shugden controversy. Edited January 14, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted January 14, 2013 Yes and? I don't get your point. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tibetan_Ice Posted January 14, 2013 Yes and? I don't get your point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Shugden Dorje Shugdän is a Dharma Protector who is the manifestation of Je Tsongkhapa. Je Tsongkhapa appears as the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugdän to prevent his doctrine from degenerating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted January 14, 2013 http://en.wikipedia....i/Dorje_Shugden Dorje Shugdän is a Dharma Protector who is the manifestation of Je Tsongkhapa. Je Tsongkhapa appears as the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugdän to prevent his doctrine from degenerating. Thats what Shugden people claim. Obviously HH Dalai Lama disagrees since he follows Tsongkhapa more than anyone. Tsongkhapa didn't teach Shugden, since Shugden comes a couple of centuries after. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tibetan_Ice Posted January 14, 2013 Thats what Shugden people claim. Obviously HH Dalai Lama disagrees since he follows Tsongkhapa more than anyone. Tsongkhapa didn't teach Shugden, since Shugden comes a couple of centuries after. HH Dalai Lama is the 14'th Dalai Lama. He imposed the ban. Duh.. The HH Dalai Lama said that at one time he did go with Tsongkhapa's teachings but that since, he changed his mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted January 14, 2013 HH Dalai Lama is the 14'th Dalai Lama. He imposed the ban. Duh.. The HH Dalai Lama said that at one time he did go with Tsongkhapa's teachings but that since, he changed his mind. You think the HH Dalai Lama dropped Tsongkhapa's teachings. TI, why are you always so hilariously wrong? This book of the Dalai Lama is from 2010. Its all about Tsongkhapa's Madhyamaka. http://books.google.com/books?id=Ep0gyJV-R9AC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Dalai+lama+The+Middle+Way&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dxjyUJi9BenC0QH1roHIDg&ved=0CDAQuwUwAA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pero Posted January 14, 2013 HH Dalai Lama is the 14'th Dalai Lama. He imposed the ban. Duh.. The HH Dalai Lama said that at one time he did go with Tsongkhapa's teachings but that since, he changed his mind. You don't read your own links it seems. Tsongkhapa himself had nothing to do with him, it is not part of his teachings at all. The Dalai Lama once practiced this "protector" but then after some research realized it was a mistake and stopped. The 5th Dalai Lama tried to destroy this "protector" but failed it seems. The 13th Dalai Lama also discouraged this practice if I recall correctly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Thank you Pero. TI made me fall out of my chair with his statement that HHDL dropped Tsongkhapa. link: http://en.wikipedia....khapa#Criticism Yes, the "Madhyamaka" of Tsongkhapa / Dalai Lama is hilariously fucked up. But thats a different issue. Edited January 14, 2013 by alwayson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted January 14, 2013 The Dalai Lama endorses Tsongkhapa more strongly than almost anyone else, one if his most recent public books was about him and when he left Tibet the only text he took with him was Tsongkhapa. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tibetan_Ice Posted January 14, 2013 Laugh all you want Alwayson. What does this mean "the Dalai Lama is no longer practising or transmitting the genuine teachings of Je Tsongkhapa’s tradition." Why do I find writings like this next quote? And the date on this next article is Dec 15, 2010. The book that Alwayson was reading is dated 2010, so it came out before this next article: http://dorjeshugdentruth.wordpress.com/tag/dorje-shugden-controversy/ By breaking with the view of his Teachers and adopting the wrong views of Dorje Shugden propounded by the politically motivated 5th Dalai Lama (who was not even a lineage Teacher of the Gelugpa tradition and who tended to mix traditions), the Dalai Lama is no longer practising or transmitting the genuine teachings of Je Tsongkhapa’s tradition. Superficially, there may appear to be no difference because he still speaks the same words and may even quote Je Tsongkhapa directly, but having broken the lineage, there is no spiritual life in the oral transmission of the teachings. Lacking the blessings of lineage, the Dalai Lama’s words lack the ability to lead to genuine realization of Buddha’s teachings. Are these lies? Who exactly is lying or not understanding what is going on here. Still falling off your chair laughing, Alwayson? Since you guys are so smart, where specifically does it say that the Dalai Lama rescinded his ban and mended the Tsongkhapa lineage? Was there a news release? Give me some proof. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Why are you buying into Shugden propaganda???? Edited January 14, 2013 by alwayson 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pero Posted January 14, 2013 TI, Shugden is irrelevant to Tsongkhapa. It was incorporated into the Gelugpa lineage, true, but Shugden came about long after Tsongkhapa already passed away. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creation Posted January 14, 2013 Are these lies? Who exactly is lying or not understanding what is going on here. Still falling off your chair laughing, Alwayson? Since you guys are so smart, where specifically does it say that the Dalai Lama rescinded his ban and mended the Tsongkhapa lineage? Was there a news release? Give me some proof. I'm not particularly interested in this discussion, but in the interest of clearing up confusion I would like to point out that it is the opinion of devotees of Shugden that Shugden practice is an indispensable part of Tsongkhapa's lineage, whereas the Dalai Lama and his followers do not believe this. Hence Shugden devotees believe the Dalai Lama is not being faithful to Tsongkhapa's tradition, while the Dalai Lama considers himself perfectly faithful to Tsongkhapa's tradition. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted January 15, 2013 lol: this is why I've stayed out of cat's lineage thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
