Hermetic order of the Golden Dawn or any magickal order....Why is magick used?

[stefos]

Hi everone,

 

I don't know why magick is being used at all anymore, particularly in the HOGD and other magickal societies including neo-paganism.

 

Can someone please explain to me why magic is still being used?

 

Thank you,

stefos

 

P.S. It seems that the HOGD & Crowley both mixed Eastern spirituality & Western Hermeticism together trying to pull off a legitimate spiritual system.

 

That's how I perceive it anyway.

[Protector]

Well... why not?

[Mal]

Can someone please explain to me why magic is still being used?

 

Perhaps because it's effective.

 

When I studied Golden Dawn practices they produced results for me. While I eventually I moved onto other things I'm glad to have spent some time exploring western esoteric traditions.

[GrandmasterP]

I'm still waiting for someone to magick up those big-winning lottery numbers.

Bit like finding that philosopher's stone, foreseeing the big winning lottery numbers seems to elude these high magicians.

Guys, except for north of your own neck; none of it really works.

If it did then you'd all be rich and we'd be watching some amongst you on the Youtube.

Edited December 25, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Cheshire Cat]

I'm still waiting for someone to magick up those big-winning lottery numbers.

Bit like finding that philosopher's stone, foreseeing the big winning lottery numbers seems to elude these high magicians.

Guys, except for north of your own neck; none of it really works.

If it did then you'd all be rich and we'd be watching some amongst you on the Youtube.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2168033/Magician-Dynamo-wins-10-000-predicting-EXACTLY-Spain-win-Euro-2012.html

[GrandmasterP]

As someone who is regular contributor towards the expensive private education of his kids, Paddy Power owes me money big time, publicity seeking chap that he is.

If ever you read of a punter in possession of a big winning betting slip who does not cash in same, trust an old gambler buddy, you is readin' fiction.

Edited December 25, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Aetherous]

.

Edited December 25, 2012 by turtle shell

[GrandmasterP]

I'll get my coat then.

Nobody likes a party pooper at a believer's convention..

Sorry to have intruded.

Be Lucky.

;-)

[Seth Ananda]

I'm still waiting for someone to magick up those big-winning lottery numbers.

Bit like finding that philosopher's stone, foreseeing the big winning lottery numbers seems to elude these high magicians.

Guys, except for north of your own neck; none of it really works.

If it did then you'd all be rich and we'd be watching some amongst you on the Youtube.

Change your tune or get out of our forum. This forum is for people who practice Hermetics of one kind or another, and not for know it all trolls.

 

There are plenty of people who have created all kinds of amazing situations for themselves. Some of those include lottery winners.

 

Magick like that has to be open ended. If you really need a certain amount you have to be open to it coming from anywhere.

 

I know people who have won houses, cars, moterbikes, jet skis, expensive items,and various sized amounts of money. I know one woman who is a professional competition winner. all using some kind of Magick or another...

[Seth Ananda]

I'll get my coat then.

Nobody likes a party pooper at a believer's convention..

Sorry to have intruded.

Be Lucky.

;-)

You are not sorry, you are deliberately condescending. Stay out till you have some respect in your communication style, and have regained a willingness to explore...

[Seth Ananda]

I think he likes to come in, chuck round some 'absolute truth' statements and see what attention/reactions he gets... He does this in nearly every thread...

[Apech]

Well, back to the topic.

 

I think its an interesting fact that western hermetic practitioners often do use eastern systems. recently we have a thread on Crowley's TTC for instance. You don't seem to find the reverse happening ... Taoists with Tarot Cards or whatever. There are of course cross system hybrids in the East ... Buddhism and Bon, Buddhism and Taoism and so on.

 

I think the reasons are at least two fold. One is that the very essence of hermeticism began with a combination of Jewish mysticism (Kabbalah), ancient pagan idea and neo-Platonic philosophy. It is by its very nature a kind of basterd child of mixed parents ... if I can put it like that. So when it comes to look at yoga, Taoism or Buddhist ideas and symbols it will quite happily take them on and put them in the casket with all the other treasures. This spirit of free assimilation is particular to hermeticism.

 

The other reason is not mystical but worldly. Empire and global trade spread east from Europe and then America and not the other way round. The westerners were the explorers and discoverers of new lands and cultures and with that goes the discovery of new ideas and symbols.

 

Hermetic magick works because it allows access to altered/expanded states of consciousness and self knowledge. It is not geared to winning the lottery ... although you will find this kind of thing in the grimoires it is not the primary purpose and most people even if tempted by this worldly stuff know really that it is not the way to go.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Apech

[Apech]

@viator ... excellently put.

 

I think the other point that should be made is that Hermeticism is not a philosophy or even a contemplative system. It is based on the view that reality is Spirit which is 'one and all'. That is it is in itself a unified field or continuum of consciousness or energy and at the same time is manifest in everything that exists at every level (including intelligences at every level of being). Hermetic Magick concentrates on the practical application of this fact. That it is possible to effect changes in accordance with the will. This is really a way of exploring and demonstrating the relationship between the self (the magician) and Spirit (the energy or consciousness) and that through reciprocal inter-function it is possible to come to 'know thyself'.

 

So even if one were to apply a magical process to win the lottery or whatever the purpose would not be to gain money but to explore the relationship with Spirit ... to come to understand how Spirit operates and thus unlock the secrets of the nature of being.

[GrandmasterP]

It is true without lying, certain and most true. That which is Below is like that which is Above and that which is Above is like that which is Below to do the miracles of the Only Thing. And as all things have been and arose from One by the mediation of One, so all things have their birth from this One Thing by adaptation. The Sun is its father; the Moon its mother; the Wind hath carried it in its belly; the Earth is its nurse. The father of all perfection in the whole world is here. Its force or power is entire if it be converted into Earth. Separate the Earth from the Fire, the subtle from the gross, sweetly with great industry. It ascends from the Earth to the Heavens and again it descends to the Earth and receives the force of things superior and inferior. By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world and thereby all obscurity shall fly from you. Its force is above all force, for it vanquishes every subtle thing and penetrates every solid thing. So was the world created. From this are and do come admirable adaptations, whereof the process is here in this. Hence am I called Hermes Trismegistus, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world. That which I have said of the operation of the Sun is accomplished and ended.

(Isaac Newton trans. EmeraldTablet)

Edited December 26, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Apech]

It is true without lying, certain and most true. That which is Below is like that which is Above and that which is Above is like that which is Below to do the miracles of the Only Thing. And as all things have been and arose from One by the mediation of One, so all things have their birth from this One Thing by adaptation. The Sun is its father; the Moon its mother; the Wind hath carried it in its belly; the Earth is its nurse. The father of all perfection in the whole world is here. Its force or power is entire if it be converted into Earth. Separate the Earth from the Fire, the subtle from the gross, sweetly with great industry. It ascends from the Earth to the Heavens and again it descends to the Earth and receives the force of things superior and inferior. By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world and thereby all obscurity shall fly from you. Its force is above all force, for it vanquishes every subtle thing and penetrates every solid thing. So was the world created. From this are and do come admirable adaptations, whereof the process is here in this. Hence am I called Hermes Trismegistus, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world. That which I have said of the operation of the Sun is accomplished and ended.

(Isaac Newton trans. EmeraldTablet)

 

Yes that sums up the alchemical path. The way you have posted it is almost impossible to read ... needs a better layout to do it justice.

[Apech]

In truth, certainly, and without doubt whatever is below is like that which is above, and whatever is above is like that which is below, to accomplish the miracles of one thing.

 

And just as all things proceed from the One, meditated by the One, so all things are born from this one thing by adaptation.

 

Its Father is the Sun and its Mother is the Moon. The Wind carries it in its belly. Its nurse is the earth.

 

It is the father of every miraculous work in the whole world. Its power is perfect if it is converted to earth. Separate the earth from the fire and the subtle from the gross, softly and with great prudence.

 

Ascend from earth to heaven and descend again from heaven to earth, and unite together the power of things superior and inferior.

 

In this way you will acquire the glory of the whole world and all darkness will leave you. This is the power of all powers, for it conquers everything subtle and penetrates everything solid.

 

Thus is the world created. From this, and in this way, wonders are made.

 

For this reason I am called Hermes Trismegistus, for I possess the three parts of wisdom of the whole world.

 

Perfect is what I have said of the work of the sun.

 

Deserves a thread of its own ... I did post something about this is Articles a while back.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Apech

[GrandmasterP]

My point such as it is, in posting the text, being...

It is possible to draw parallels between faith pathways. We might detect a whiff of Taoism in the text cited had we an interest so to do.

That way lies lineage narratives or maybe gnosis.

OR

We can choose to treat with the text as it stands and is read today.

Thus critical textual analysis.

The first route posits an epistemological paradigm whilst the second would claim that there is no such thing as an epistemological paradigm.

Both approaches being equally valid beyond and outside the constraining fences of the purely dogmatic.

Unless certain threads are to be password protected to exclude some then Inclusivity surely implies acceptance of contra-opinion.

[三江源]

.

Edited March 26, 2015 by 三江源

[GrandmasterP]

You are quite right Cat and my apologies to posters on here for my derailment, which was down to enthusiasm for the topic rather than any intended disrespect at all.

As one of the original proposers of this hermetic sub forum I do trust that we are now back onto what is a most stimulating topic.

Edited December 26, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Panas trismegistos]

I'm still waiting for someone to magick up those big-winning lottery numbers.

Bit like finding that philosopher's stone, foreseeing the big winning lottery numbers seems to elude these high magicians.

Guys, except for north of your own neck; none of it really works.

If it did then you'd all be rich and we'd be watching some amongst you on the Youtube.

 

You are wrong .

 

From personal experience i can tell you , that yes i won lottery , sometimes was magick , sometimes was divination .

[Boy]

...

Edited February 9, 2013 by Boy

[stefos]

Hi everyone,

 

Happy New Year!

 

My understanding is such:

 

Consciousness is the ground upon which the material world finds it's root, so to speak.

 

Advaita Vedanta, Buddhism & Christianity all find consciousness or Brahman, Nibbana, God the Father respectively to be this "root."

 

My understanding is that prana is "life energy" as there is a pranic or ether body.

 

Magick is the manipulation of people, not of prana, with the aim of controlling them, Correct?

 

Rudolph Steiner mentioned thoughts, feellings and emotions as forming a unity as such.

Magick is the manipulation of others thoughts, feelings and emotions, on the relative level of the personality/ego...Correct?

 

I don't want to know about Crowley....not interested in the least.

 

I don't know! Forgive the ignorance.

Thank you,

Stefos

 

P.S. As a side note, Dr. Steiner mentioned the "guardian of the threshold" being created as a result of "low magic." Zanoni is meant to be a fictional work upon this "guardian of the threshold."

[RiverSnake]

 

Magick is the manipulation of people, not of prana, with the aim of controlling them, Correct?

 

 

I don't know much about magic....but i can say with little reservation that this is an incorrect statement....overwhelmingly so.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[GrandmasterP]

Most magic is manipulation and/or misdirection, not all though.

Magicians have always been popular, there's no society ever that has not had magicians of some sort or other.

[d'avid]

why is magic used in hermetic traditions:

 

to bring about a transformation of the aspirant,

to attune to the real self,

crystallizing from above.

 

magic: the art of effecting change at will.

 

Eliphas Levi:

"Nothing can resist the will of man when he knows what is true and wills what is good."

"All the magic is in the will."

"To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage."

Edited January 3, 2013 by d'avid