Zhan Zhuang

[Palmer]

For those of you that use standing meditation what are your goals with the practice, what is your practice, and what do you find your results are? Do you also incorporate other types of meditation into your practice?

My original goals were to enhance my understanding of the martial arts I was practicing (and because my teacher told me too!) I became addicted pretty soon and my teacher eventually focused on teaching me postures that were more of a combat nature (San ti shi, Spear and shield/turtle, Dragon etc etc.) Regardless of the posture my practice mainly consisted of-

1. Initially learning to relax/quiet the mind

2. Visualization exersizes

-to open channels in the extremities and guide chi to specific points and certain directions in the body

-to imagine various pressures to let the mind and body react and eventually not react (physical/emotional)

-to focus on movements learned and enhance my understanding/ownership of the movement in stillness

3. express opposite force in the body

-stretching the 5 bows (4 legs and spine)

-express force in 6 directions

 

I have found a variety of results some including and in no specific order-

Ability to remain relaxed under physical strain

Overall greater physical strength particularly in the lower body

Enhanced ability to generate force from the whole body over smaller distances

Greater sence of awareness of balance and movement

Able to deal with mental/emotional stress better than without the practice (Only found this out when backsliding on my practice)

Feeling what people describe as chi circulation for the first time mainly in the extremities and a whole body type sensation.

Much higher energy levels

 

Only recently after years of feeling energy circulation in the extremities and an overall feeling of wellness have I tried to look further into incorporating taoist meditation practices to circulate chi at major points that are along the bodies center. When using similar techniques to what I was taught in Yiquan I was amazed to feel similar sensations at some of these points as well. I saw there have been threads in the past on Zhan Zhuang and there are some well educated members here on the subject I hope to learn more about how other people practice.

 

 

Palmer

[Taomeow]

A few years ago, when something horrible happened that I didn't know how to process, I stood in Zhan Zhuang all night just because I couldn't think of anything else to do. In the morning, I had the solution -- and the center within, something unbreakable that felt like a diamond axis. It gave me the kind of strength I needed at the time, and never knew I had.

[sean]

I find I "get the most" when I go into standing, or sitting for that matter, with the fewest intentions as possible. Just standing there. It's completely natural, completely ordinary. No secret method. I am just standing.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Sean

[Taomeow]

I find I "get the most" when I go into standing, or sitting for that matter, with the fewest intentions as possible. Just standing there. It's completely natural, completely ordinary. No secret method. I am just standing.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Sean

 

Ever tried it for eight hours straight?

 

To me the "secret" of this practice lies in one of the "virtues of tao" (according to the Ta Chuan) that manifests if you go far beyond the everyday human comfort zone -- "endurance," "perseverance," "duration." "Tao dwells in things that endure." It is much more difficult for a human to "just stand" than it is for a tree. At least for me it gets difficult after a while. Only if I "persevere" far beyond the point where it gets difficult does it get really interesting.

[MASTERforge]

This is quite an interesting topic for me as i recieved a book on standing pole for christmas. I haven't got round to practicing yet as I do QiGong, Tai Chi and Embryonic breathing meditation. These more than cover my needs for the moment.

 

But its also good to hear of peoples experiences.

 

[Cameron]

Everything mentioned. Specifically, for me lately it is seeing how deeply I can sink and let the ground support my structure. Even when you understand this intellectually it's different when you start to actually get it. I see it as connecting with deep, natural inner potential that isn't based on muscular strength but mind and intention. Even though I have been practiicng a few years I am still a total beginner. I love that there are practices like these that are literally "lifetime" practices. I could probably stand for 20 years and still always find something new and fresh about it and still sink or let go more deeply.

[mYTHmAKER]

Ever tried it for eight hours straight?

 

What is your posture. Was it the same for your all nighter.

Did you take any breaks.

 

The max I did was about one hour forty five minutes.

Arms at sides no conscious movement.

I found myself rooted to the spot and really didn't - couldn't - want to move.

My teacher came along and patted my torso arms legs and pulled my arms

to get my circulation going.

[Taomeow]

What is your posture. Was it the same for your all nighter.

Did you take any breaks.

 

The max I did was about one hour forty five minutes.

Arms at sides no conscious movement.

I found myself rooted to the spot and really didn't - couldn't - want to move.

My teacher came along and patted my torso arms legs and pulled my arms

to get my circulation going.

 

I usually do either the Three Spheres (medium-low stance, legs "holding" the lower sphere, arms, the middle, hands, the upper) or the straight Pole. For the all-nighter, I did the Pole. No breaks. It was done under extreme stress (after the most horrible day of my life, and with a complex decision to make still pending.) It was a very extreme experience and it brought about very extreme results. Basically it rearranged my metabolism -- semi-permanently some of it, and some of it, permanently. E.g., it lowered my body temperature by over one degree F permanently. Slowed my heart rate by ten beats per minute, also permanently. The less tangible "events of the soul" are hard to describe... basically, it imparted a kind of long term sturdiness, a knowledge that I can't be broken and that whatever needs to be done, and whatever it would take, I can and will do it. And did...

[Palmer]

Thanks for everyones responses. I believe there are a large variety of standing practices among people and many different goals with these practices. I noticed even among the training I received significantly different goals depending on a certain posture and how it was taught. For instance my teacher wouldn't teach someone the Santi posture if they had no intention of training for self defence.

 

Specifically, for me lately it is seeing how deeply I can sink and let the ground support my structure. Even when you understand this intellectually it's different when you start to actually get it. I see it as connecting with deep, natural inner potential that isn't based on muscular strength but mind and intention.

 

This may not be exactly what you are talking about but a Yiquan practitioner I correspond with and highly respect has talked about this kind of training and Lam Kam Chuen describes it in one of his books where you are drawing strength up from the earth (Lam illustrates it as a triangle.) I have never tried this yet but would like to experiment with this in the future. Does this sound similar to what you are describing?

 

I was kind of hoping to see if people linked together things like the "Grand circulation" and other Taoist meditation practices with Zhan Zhuang. Personally giving up Zhan Zhuang is not a welcomed option for me but at the same time I am not sure how much time I have to invest in other meditation practices that could not be incorporated into my standing. This is mainly due to time constraints since my time practicing Xinyi Liu He is fairly demanding as well.

 

Intersting responses I always told people I am not just standing around and when you see the diversity in response even though we are just standing still clearly we are doing many different things!

 

Palmer

Edited January 12, 2007 by Palmer

[Starjumper]

If you stand with legs bent then it generates surplus chi in proportion to how low you sink and if you relax during it, as you should, then this extra chi will circulate freely to empower or heal you. You can also use the extra chi by directing it with your intent, and since it requires striving to relax in the face of physical stress it also teaches you how to relax in the face of emotional stress.

[Cameron]

If your talking about rooting then yes, it's a basic priniciple of internal martial arts. I don't really care to ellaborate too much further. It's best to follow the teaching of a master teacher. My main standing teacher is Ken Cohen. He has written a book on qigong and it has a chapter on standing like a tree.

 

Ime also thinking about studying with a high level internal teacher in Kenny Gong's lineage. But you have to learn that directly from the teacher no real written stuff.

 

Cam

[Trunk]

I was kind of hoping to see if people linked together things like the "Grand circulation" and other Taoist meditation practices with Zhan Zhuang. Personally giving up Zhan Zhuang is not a welcomed option for me but at the same time I am not sure how much time I have to invest in other meditation practices that could not be incorporated into my standing.

I find that most meditations can be incorporated into standing (with beneficial results), even if the meditation/s are from another tradition. Just my experience.

[Palmer]

If your talking about rooting then yes, it's a basic priniciple of internal martial arts. I don't really care to ellaborate too much further. It's best to follow the teaching of a master teacher. My main standing teacher is Ken Cohen. He has written a book on qigong and it has a chapter on standing like a tree.

 

Ime also thinking about studying with a high level internal teacher in Kenny Gong's lineage. But you have to learn that directly from the teacher no real written stuff.

 

Cam

 

 

Thanks Cameron, no I am not talking about rooting I have an understanding of what that is (I have been training Xingyi/Xinyi for awhile and studied Tai Chi in the past as well.) I have had the opportunity to have studied with a couple of good teachers (Yiquan is of the late Kuo Lien Ying's line) although I cant say that I have been taught everything I still have much to learn. The Yiquan tradition in my opinion has many layers and quite a few methods to learn. . I agree these things are not really practical to learn without an instructor although I have picked up a couple of gems from people over the net after already having a foundaton.

 

cheers,

 

Palmer

[Cameron]

Cool. Good luck in your training.

[Palmer]

I find that most meditations can be incorporated into standing (with beneficial results), even if the meditation/s are from another tradition. Just my experience.

 

Thanks Trunk what kind of things have you incorporated? I have only just started to incorporate "non-Yiquan" things into my standing and have also enjoyed it so far. But since my whole standing foundation is based on a teaching I wonder how much I am interpreting things through a Yiquan filter.

 

Palmer

Edited January 12, 2007 by Palmer

[thelerner]

I realize the strength of standing practice but don't do it regularly. Sometimes I'll just stand, othertimes I'll be motionless but imagine my body going through a chi gung form. Often its more intense then doing the form for real.

 

Sometimes I'll stand and listen to Rawn Clarks Archaeous guided meditation series. Its unusual elemental structure of seeing the legs as earth, belly as water, chest as air, head as fire/awareness connects with standing practice and the 15 or so minutes fly by.

 

Michael

[Starjumper]

Another thing standing (and low postures in Chen Tai Chi and Chi Kung did for me is strengthen my legs so much that it is easy for me to climb up der mountain with a backpack on.

[Wayfarer64]

Some sessions with my Hung Gar Master consisted of nothing but standing in horse stance. Period. These were two hour sessions and few of us lasted more than 45 minutes, without coming out of the stance.

Only deep meditation techniques kept me at it.

 

Pools of sweat were under us after only 20 minutes or so and we groaned and moaned. Usually after an hour or so, Master Chung would come around and kick the backs of our knees trying to knock us down. At first I let this happen, as a way to get some relief. After a few years I could take the kick and stay erect. But I don't think I ever lasted much more than an hour without some relaxation or change of posture, either popping up for a moment or bobbing some etc...

 

I find any forced stillness a sort of instant jump into meditative mode now. On buses, trains, etc. I naturally start to meditate, pray, chant to myself, go inward in some way. That is if I am alone. If with someone I know I usually will converse with them... So meditation may be practiced anywhere, anytime

 

I have even tried to be meditative while making love -as a shared experience trying to stay connected at deeper levels while sharing our bodies. I think that this practice may be called Yabyum or some such...I first heard of it in The Dharma Bums by Kerouac- for which this site is named... I'll bet there are some serious practitioners of this around here, huh

[Ian]

For those of you that use standing meditation what are your goals with the practice, what is your practice, and what do you find your results are? Do you also incorporate other types of meditation into your practice?

 

 

Goal: to come to do nothing but stand and thereby release karma.

 

Practice: stand, relax, feel feet on floor. Knees just bent enough to release groin, palms pointing at hips.

 

Results: Very gradually opening up body. Ability to shut the head up comes and goes.

 

I don't incorporate anything else. Trying to do less rather than more.

[Treena]

As a medical qigong practitioner the standing postures help me to open up blocked channels and to learn to release and relax tension so that I can move large amounts of energy for healing work.

 

It's amazing really how standing for a relatively short period of time can aid me in moving a 'lot' of energy.

 

I often get helping visions to aid what I do. I've received them about the standing postures, and though I haven't been able to manifest this 100% yet, I've learned it's about letting the energy support and move in, around, and through the body. There is no muscular effort. It's all about the energy.