Dynamic vs still...

[Jox]

1. Do not move the body during meditation, sit still...

2. Let the body move during meditation, dynamic...

 

Pros&cons, opinions, experiences, etc...

[Marblehead]

I am of the remaining still school of meditation. For me, meditation is for stilling the mind. Movement requires mind activity.

 

However, I have mentioned before that I do on occasion, when doing routine work outside, slide into a meditative state. This is never intentional, it just happens.

[skydog]

A quote I heard that Im paraphrasing "Stillness when still is not true stillness, stillness during movement is real stillness"

 

Having said that I get into deep stillness when "still"

[doc benway]

It might be helpful to first define meditation.

Otherwise we are doing the apples and oranges thing.

[Marblehead]

It might be helpful to first define meditation.

Good point.

 

I'll go first.

 

I define meditation as the state of "wu wei"; that is, a state where I am detached from all attachments and desires. A state where there is no "I am". But this does not exclude "awareness".

[joeblast]

Finding movement via stillness and finding stillness via movement...

 

both focus on first choosing what the focus is - the transitional outcomes is merely a byproduct of following the fundamentals of the practice you decided to start off with.

 

That said,

 

Cross Train!!!

[thelerner]

Finding movement via stillness and finding stillness via movement...

 

both focus on first choosing what the focus is - the transitional outcomes is merely a byproduct of following the fundamentals of the practice you decided to start off with.

That said,

Cross Train!!!

Yup. I had no concept 'movement' could be allowed during emptiness meditation, perfect stillness was what I considered the goal. Learning Ya Mu's Stillness-Movement has been very helpful. I've found it allows me to stay in meditation for longer periods. There may be a naturalness to it that I'd previously over ridden. It a relatively small thing, but instead of hands together loosely on the lap, it holds the hand together loosely on the lower dan tien. Another good discovery. As always your mileage will vary. Like JoeB I cross train.

[ChiDragon]

It might be helpful to first define meditation.

Otherwise we are doing the apples and oranges thing.

The English definition for "meditation" is the practice of thinking deeply in silence.

 

The term "meditation' is very confusing to an Easterner, especially to a Chinese. The proper term to a Chinese is Zazen(打坐). It was borrow from India to meant sitting quietly and think about nothing but just practice in breathing. The Chinese has no problem or any confusion with what Zazen meant. It is very unanimous which is no thinking at all but only with emptiness in the mind.

 

In the contrarily, the term Zazen was translated as "meditation" and become confused as hell. Especially, the terms dynamic meditation and walking meditation. A Chinese would interpreted it as "the practice of thinking deeply in silence while walking". The consequence may be bumped one's head into a light pole. If we stick with the term Zazen, then one would just stay put and sit tight and think of nothing.

 

If the westerners get together and set up a standard of definitions, then there wouldn't be any run around and kept asking what the hell is "meditation".

[joeblast]

If you are thinking, you are not really "meditating." The cultivation of awareness does not have thought as an ingredient.

[ChiDragon]

I wish you can stop confusing the western public.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

"Thinking" in English rarely means anything but "inner dialogue/意/sound in the mind." For zazen, this is obviously not the focus. Focus or contemplation might be better words, though most any culture nowadays associates any mind activity with inner dialogue, which most any meditation masters of past and present would first seek to clear from the mind, generally by re-aligning the focus.

 

I wouldn't rule out that there are useful meditations, such as vipissanna, where one should not move and maybe just focus on why one wants to move if they feel the need to. Same for meditations that let the body move if the energy is trying to get through somewhere and the body feels it needs to shift a bit to let energy go where it's trying to going. Really depends on contexts... imo.

[ChiDragon]

Again....

You are still trying to build definition for "meditation" to confuse oneself and others. That is why there is no end to this....???

 

Besides, the title of the thread is about "dynamic vs still" rather then meditation. Do you see how people look at things. We are way off tangent.

Edited December 26, 2012 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

Again....

You are still trying to build definition for "meditation" to confuse oneself and others. That is why there is no end to this....???

 

Besides, the title of the thread is about "dynamic vs still" rather then meditation. Do you see how people look at things. We are way off tangent.

yer killin me dude...you come into these threads and either question the foundations of what's being asked when a certain specific detail is asked about, or then when fundamental questions are asked you come up with virtually off topic questions that cause further misunderstanding,

 

then you have the nerve to tell some of us to quit confusing people???

 

nobody said anything about the definition of meditation until you, being unasked, misstated a very simple definition.

 

english is clearly not your first language, so enough already. you derail more threads than just about anyone here.

[ChiDragon]

1. Do not move the body during meditation, sit still...

2. Let the body move during meditation, dynamic...

 

Pros&cons, opinions, experiences, etc...

 

The word "meditation" has been mentioned two times in the OP; and please also read Steve's comment. Don't you ever read anything before you jump to a conclusion, as always....???

 

Yes, English is not my native tongue, but I am trying very hard to learn to communicate with you. If you would like to hold that against me, then I am glad to cease any communication with you. BTW English as your first language, you are not any better in communication then your own fellas.

Edited December 26, 2012 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

...and you dont seem to understand english well enough that steve didnt mean "let's go to the dictionary and look up how it defines meditation," he meant "there are active and passive meditations and unless we're going to specify, then we can have a lot of counter arguments that have validity, unless we make the distinction."

 

and you latched on to that to put forth that meditation was defined in english as deep thought. see, that's the problem with looking up the dictionary definitions and relying on them for things that are beyond its capacity - whose definition? some schmoe who has no idea what meditation is, who might easily conflate "deep thought" with some sort of emptiness? my second post clarified that if you're thinking, that is not meditation, that is thinking.

 

I'm not here to argue with you, dont take it personally when you get corrected. If you had some humility then you would be able to accept such things instead of trying to twist words further just so you can "stay correct."

[ChiDragon]

Okay. Fair enough. I am totally lost with your specious and paradoxical definitions of the terms most of the time. Sorry, I just cannot follow your thoughts in a scholastic manner.

[ShenLung]

When pondering concepts, either sitting or moving are fine for me; when working with energy, movement to get tuned in, and either movement or stillness to do ... whatever I'm doing at the moment. Sometimes I walk until I find the right place to sit down, or get up and move when the place isn't right for the thought.

[PLB]

In my experience, some things are the same whether doing dynamic or still practices. The intention element seems to have the same connection to what is happening (or not). And new elements slide through suddenly in moments of fleeting awareness in both cases.

Nonetheless, I guess I stay still for the sake of learning how to move more than the other way around. It is easier for me to separate things when I am moving.

[doc benway]

Movement and stillness both have their places in meditative practices. In my tradition (Daoist) the majority of the stages I've been taught involve quiet and still sitting yet there is at least one technique that involves spontaneous movement, as well as other body positions.

 

Most Buddhist methods are practiced without physical movement however walking meditation has an important place.

 

When sitting or lying down during practice there are differing views on whether it is better to force the student to avoid all movement vs allowing them to make periodic, minor adjustmets to avoid discomfort and distractiin.

 

To the OP - to get a specific answer you need to clarify what specific practice you are inquiring about.

Edited December 27, 2012 by steve

[spiraltao]

As a kid I meditated on my butt at least thirty minutes a day. I have only recently started to try it again. Reason is, the results I get from wuji are what I am looking for at this time in my baguazhang play. I am reading a book on sitting meditations, but for the most part the last two years my meditation has been done both still(ZZ) and dynamic(bagua circle turning with static postures), which if done right, the dynamic still finds "stillness" in one's motion.

 

Don't mean to be redundant as I have seen the "stillness in motion" herein a few times already.

 

For a beginner though, I would recommend Zhan Zhuang.

 

Suppose I need to put more time into sitting, eh?

[Marblehead]

Suppose I need to put more time into sitting, eh?

Depends on whether or not you should be doing something else.

[dawei]

I think the thread is too open ended. Without a specific request of the type of meditation to discuss, we're going to hear varying experiences and methods. There is nothing wrong with that if that is the OPs idea: Just get varying ideas shared. So each person can share their meditation method/teaching and what they do.

 

With that being said, I tend to think of whether I want to do:

1. Mind engaged or not

2. Stillness or not

 

For me, the mind engaged can be mantra/prayer, intention or visualization (ie: Qi, color).

 

I tend to have the mind engaged and do either stillness or dynamic. If dynamic then either I am doing the physical movement or intention/Qi is doing the movement. When I do something with mind disengaged then it tends to be stillness.

[sree]

The term "meditation' is very confusing to an Easterner, especially to a Chinese. The proper term to a Chinese is Zazen(打坐). It was borrow from India to meant sitting quietly and think about nothing but just practice in breathing. The Chinese has no problem or any confusion with what Zazen meant. It is very unanimous which is no thinking at all but only with emptiness in the mind.

 

Mr Chi, 打坐 is pronounced as "da zuo" which does imply sitting down. Why "Zazen" which sounds Japanese?

 

In the contrarily, the term Zazen was translated as "meditation" and become confused as hell. Especially, the terms dynamic meditation and walking meditation. A Chinese would interpreted it as "the practice of thinking deeply in silence while walking". The consequence may be bumped one's head into a light pole. If we stick with the term Zazen, then one would just stay put and sit tight and think of nothing.

 

What is the point to meditation, in your opinion?

[ChiDragon]

Mr Chi, 打坐 is pronounced as "da zuo" which does imply sitting down. Why "Zazen" which sounds Japanese?

 

What is the point to meditation, in your opinion?

 

Mr sree...

 

Let me put it this way. Sitting down is 坐下. Zazen is a term borrowed from India which is equivalent to 打坐 (da zuo).

When we breathing, it was understood that we inhale and exhale. In the same token, 打坐 (da zuo) has its own definition.

 

打坐 (da zuo) is a term was given for practicing breathing by sitting down in a lotus position without any thinking nor meditation.

 

There is a method do meditate or thinking which was performed by the Buddhists called 禪(zen or chan) or 參禪. I think the western public got the idea of meditation from here.

 

In my opinion, I do not do meditation or 參禪 but I only do 打坐 (da zuo). I believe that I was doing 靜氣功(Still Chi Kung).

Edited December 28, 2012 by ChiDragon

[sree]

 

In my opinion, I do not do meditation or 參禪 but I only do 打坐 (da zuo). I believe that I was doing 靜氣功(Still Chi Kung).

 

Do you think there is any connection between 道德經 and 氣功 ?