Dynamic vs still...

[Marblehead]

Yep, you are right. That is, in the second paragraph. I will ignore the first paragraph because you already know that I am never wrong.

 

So shall we have a cup of tea and meditate?

[idiot_stimpy]

That is where you are wrong, my friend. If you know you are meditating, then you are not. But when you know you are not meditating, then you are.

 

I know how you hate being told what you know and what you don't, what you are doing and what you ain't. Mother(f--ker)s are like that. They are always telling Tommy what he likes and what he doesn't regardless of what Tommy says.

 

 

So how do you know that you're meditating or not?

 

Do you have to think in your mind 'Now I am meditating'?

 

 

I'm interested how you break this down on a mind level.

[sree]

So how do you know that you're meditating or not?

 

Do you have to think in your mind 'Now I am meditating'?

 

 

I'm interested how you break this down on a mind level.

 

You smell blood,don't you? You know I'm onto something even though Marblehead doesn't.

 

idiot_stimpy, I like your name. So, I'm going to tell you.

You can't know if you are meditating. But you can tell when you are not.

 

You have a take on what meditation is, I can tell.

You want to compare notes? I don't have any that affirms what meditation is.

[ChiDragon]

You can't know if you are meditating. But you can tell when you are not.

 

What you are saying is when you are meditating, you are not thinking about anything. Thus you are unconscious. When you are not meditating, then, you are conscious. Thus you will know that you're thinking.

Edited December 30, 2012 by ChiDragon

[sree]

What you are saying is when you are meditating, you are not thinking about anything. Thus you are unconscious.

When you are not meditating, then, you are conscious. Thus you will know that you're thinking.

 

Mr Chi, I don't believe that meditation can lead to 天人合一 .

 

Meditation is superstition. The Chinese scholar is not superstitious and studies the Tao Te Ching to reflect on the truth about life. To the 百姓 (straw dogs), who see with their educated minds, they can only imagine and picture what is 天人合一 and try to attain it through meditation, a willful act invented to induced a trance-like state by focusing on their breath or whatever.

 

Why don't we pay attention to reflecting on the way (tao) of living instead, like true scholars of the Tao Te Ching?

Edited December 30, 2012 by sree

[ChiDragon]

You can't know if you are meditating.

 

However, there is a fallacy in your thought. Then, how would you ever get out of the meditation mode while you are under the unconscious mode....???

[joeblast]

What you are saying is when you are meditating, you are not thinking about anything. Thus you are unconscious. When you are not meditating, then, you are conscious. Thus you will know that you're thinking.

www.dictionary.com you're conflating terms again and are making assertions that are not correct, but seemingly merely because of misunderstandings of vocabulary. Unconscious doesnt flow into that at all - meditation is an exercise in conscious awareness (are you aware of the difference between unconscious and subconscious? Just like there's a difference between thoughtlessness and mindlessness, a difference between no-mind and oblivion...) To be truly in such a state, takes time and practice - so while one can say samhadi is a meditative state, not all meditative states are samhadi.

 

We dont need to be so strict with our definition of meditation that it excludes all else aside from truly being in samhadi. If that were the case, few of us would ever meditate at all. Meditation is the vehicle-path one takes to get to samhadi - the cranial nerves need to be sufficiently attenuated before samhadi will result because there needs to be the coherent harnessing of the various energy potentials, otherwise with ongoing stimulation of the cranial nerves, the cascades of neural firings WILL manifest thought-stream-energy.

 

I still have to disagree with the notion that one cant know he's in samhadi - just because one doesnt manifest the thought-realization "hey, cool, samhadi!!!!" doesnt mean that one cannot be sitting there basking in the glow of his own conscious awareness with no manifestation of thought (well, the first time it happens, yeah, I can see that...not knowing and then when the marvelous state manifests then a thought is triggered after a time, wow!! )

[ChiDragon]

jb.....

You didn't see the conflict in the thoughts between sree and me. Please follow the thread and think carefully before you jump into any conclusion as you had done in the past.

[Marblehead]

You can't know if you are meditating. But you can tell when you are not.

Now look at you. You affirmed what I had said but you said I was wrong when I said it. Short-term memory loss?

[Marblehead]

I would love to jump to a nice warm conclusion as I was just outside feeding the fish and it is cold out there.

[joeblast]

jb.....

You didn't see the conflict in the thoughts between sree and me. Please follow the thread and think carefully before you jump into any conclusion as you had done in the past.

unless you guys have a PM going, we're all reading the same text. I thank you in advance for not complaining when you have been corrected

[ChiDragon]

Mr Chi, I don't believe that meditation can lead to 天人合一 .

 

Why don't we pay attention to reflecting on the way (tao) of living instead, like true scholars of the Tao Te Ching?

 

As you wish......

[sree]

As you wish......

 

As I don't know how to initiate this, would you be kind enough to launch a new thread entitled "The Way (道 i.e.Tao) of Living"?

 

To start off the discussion, you can cut and paste on the new thread site the following:

 

Let's discuss our way of life, according to our values and our attitudes, to find out how far off the mark we are in relation to the eternal Way (道 i.e.Tao).

 

John Lennon's Way (道) of Living, as told in his song "Imagine" would be as follows:

 

No Heaven, no Hell, and above us only sky. (Meaning no religion, shamanism, spiritualism.)

All the people (百姓) living together for today. (No dwelling on the past, no planning for the future.)

No countries. (No nationalism, no territorial divisions.)

Nothing to live or die for. (No conflicts, no dreams and no wants.)

No possessions. (Public or private.)

 

Lennon said that his Way (道 i.e.Tao) will lead to:

 

No need for greed and hunger.

All the people, sharing all the world, living life in peace.

 

Is John Lennon's dream practicable and consistent with the teaching of the Tao Te Ching?

Edited December 31, 2012 by sree

[sree]

Now look at you. You affirmed what I had said but you said I was wrong when I said it. Short-term memory loss?

 

Did I affirmed what you said?

I said earlier that if you know you are not meditating, then you are.

 

After that, I said that you can tell when you are not meditating.

But just because you can feel you are not meditating doesn't mean meditation is not going on like some programs running on unbeknownst to you, in the background behind the web page you are looking at or the stuff you are working on.

Edited December 31, 2012 by sree

[Marblehead]

Did I affirmed what you said?

I said earlier that if you know you are not meditating, then you are.

 

After that, I said that you can tell when you are not meditating.

But just because you can feel you are not meditating doesn't mean meditation is not going on like some programs running on unbeknownst to you, in the background behind the web page you are looking at or the stuff you are working on.

Ah, but now you are talking about the functions of the unconscious brain and I will agree that there is something going on almost all the time in the unconscious.

 

You see, we are really not that far apart in our understanding. We just use different words and this causes confusion.

 

It is my understanding that all intuitive thoughts come from the unconscious. This is why, when a person has attained the state of wu wei (s)he appears to be in deep meditation but yet there is full awareness (in the unconscious brain) and the person will act spontaniously if external conditions require a reaction. (From wu wei we never act, we only react.)

[joeblast]

Is John Lennon's dream practicable and consistent with the teaching of the Tao Te Ching?

meh...Lennon himself later said as a whole it is basically a communist manifesto and lamented his doe-eyed view of the world when it was written. He came to his senses later in his life I'm sure such notions are what the one world government has in mind for its eventual takeover, though in practice its going to be far from such a wondrous theory. While it may in some senses be consistent with the TTC, its every bit as unrealistic as the muslims converting the entire world by the sword.

 

 

Functions of the subconscious...the subconscious as it relates to the conscious awareness, =

 

Not thinking, yet, not dreaming

 

[Ya Mu]

1. Do not move the body during meditation, sit still...

2. Let the body move during meditation, dynamic...

 

Pros&cons, opinions, experiences, etc...

 

One thing to consider is the study done by the Japanese doctors where they monitored the brain waves of both Qigong and Zen practitioners. Zen folks sat quietly. Qigong sat quietly but allowed energetics to move. The researchers found that both dampened down brain waves but the Qigong folks had also stimulated the creative centers of the brain whereas the Zen folks did not. (and no I do not have a link to this study, I THINK it is listed in Dr Sanciers qigong database of abstracts.)

 

My experience is that the greatest effect of true calmness, energetics, and awareness enhancement happens when true Stillness occurs allowing Movement; hence my practice of Stillness-Movement. I did not get nearly the same effect when sitting Zen style or when suppressing the movement.

 

A combination of sitting and movement practices is what I have seen to be the best balance, although some movements, like the Gift of Tao, do arrive at the same place as Stillness-Movement sitting where one induces the other.

 

The word "meditation" can be argued a lot as to its true meaning. But there are many "meditative" practices and I personally consider "moving meditation" to be valid form of meditation.

[johndoe2012]

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Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[thelerner]

At one point, I decided to put hands on ldt (as per s-m) and allowed myself to move slightly. Instantly, no more pain in back, with a very, very subtle soothing flow in body, especially back of torso. And that nice flow and integrity from crown to toes.

Maybe it mundane, but I also find it allows me to sit longer w/ less discomfort.