oildrops Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Antidepressant drugs are ridiculously powerful. They should be a last resort. Exercise, and sunlight work wonders. Also, inner smile knowing when you need a chemical shift and when you are just feeling sorry for yourself is helpful. Oily fish as said above is helpful. Avoiding fast carbs can help. I have been trying to cultivate "gratitude" in myself to stave off the winter blues. I have never had access to ayahuasca. Psylociben can be a very useful tool for self reflection and changing life patterns. If you don't have respect for the plants and their energies though, you will after they are through tearing your ego apart- it can get scary. Edited December 27, 2012 by oildrops 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted December 27, 2012 Reminds me of how when you read about meditation from guys like Nan Huai-Chan and William Brodi. If you're meditating and you don't feel bliss, then you're doing something wrong. The first Dyana is bliss I hear. I'm on my way to enter the first Dyana. You're aiming to end suffering not make it worse. Depression is a type of suffering that can be ended forever. Very philosophically controversial. That view could lead to addiction to positive feelings during meditation. You might have to work through negative emotions in order to let them go. You know, catharsis, healing crisis, releasing suppressed stuff. On the other hand, that view can lead to bias, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShenLung Posted December 27, 2012 Antidepressant drugs are ridiculously powerful. They should be a last resort. Exercise, and sunlight work wonders. Also, inner smile knowing when you need a chemical shift and when you are just feeling sorry for yourself is helpful. Oily fish as said above is helpful. Avoiding fast carbs can help. I have been trying to cultivate "gratitude" in myself to stave off the winter blues. I have never had access to ayahuasca. Psylociben can be a very useful tool for self reflection and changing life patterns. If you don't have respect for the plants and their energies though, you will after they are through tearing your ego apart- it can get scary. OH! 'drops, you're a genius! I'd completely forgotten about the utilization of light therapy (rose colored glasses, great for seasonal effective disorder!!) There's one technique that has no downside at all, and is good for anyone. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) What do you mean by 'disciplining the mind'? Hmnn... being aware as a negative thought arises and letting it go, not allowing it to fester and circle. Easy to write, hard to practice.. Edited December 28, 2012 by thelerner 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShenLung Posted December 28, 2012 What do you mean by 'disciplining the mind'? I kind of tie this into Malik's post above .. mental discipline can come from more than one source, but for me (personal experience caution) it came from studying the way to freedom, a core teaching of tibetan buddhism. The author is one that, I would agree with him, inconsequential; it is what he was taught, and he passed on from that teaching that is important. Old stuff, translated to english. As english is my next best language, it works for me. Individual results may vary, of course. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) . Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) I don't feel that depression is always low energy per-se, better described I would think as energy that is twisted and or a self-inflicting of damage in certain ways upon one's mind and body - a mind and body that would normally be running closer to un-twisted or un-bound. (so source or basic energy is not negative or positive in itself, it has to go into or lend power to an area of mind to take on these relative aspects, thus keep energy from flowing into negative mind circuits - so to speak) Edited December 28, 2012 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted December 28, 2012 No. It's all in the mind, unfortunately. I wish there were an external aid but these don't work. This statement coming from you surprises me a bit. It sounds very much like you have no clue about ayahuasca. On the level where ayahuasca can operate, there is no external. But even if you look from a mundane level, it should be obvious that nothing is done without external stimuli. Calling ayahuasca an external aid is adding an artificial distinction. THAT is a thing of the mind, too. I can phrase it many different ways: - Ayahuasca is not an external helper, because the helper is your internal decision to take it. - Ayahuasca is a tool for opening your mind to yourself. - If you want to unlock a door to greater insight and wisdom, ayahuasca is a key. Meditators shunning entheogenic substance consumption are saying that you should forge the key yourself. But hey, in order to do that, you need tools and raw materials. Isn't it unwise to use tools to make the key? Make your own tool! Well, guess what you need to do that. ;-) Everything is interconnected. There is no 'doing-myself without help'. ... There is no doing. ... You can go as far as your mind can grow and accept, but saying about ayahuasca what you said is going backwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted December 28, 2012 MAOIs are very effective in many cases. Clinical depression is treatable but, unlike antispasmodics for example that work on everyone in the same way; there's never an individual guarantee that what psychiatric interventions work for one patient will necessarily work in the same way for another, hence the multi modal patient centred approach. Clinical Depression is certainly NOT 'all in the mind'. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted December 28, 2012 The pdf that DaoJones posted on dissassociation is interesting in this respect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boy Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) ... Edited February 9, 2013 by Boy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) Clinical Depression is certainly NOT 'all in the mind'. At least the powers of the mind are quite impressive. Some people are shown this during psychedelic trips - that the mind has more power and control over oneself than people think and is not a total slave to biochemistry. One good anecdote for this is a guy taking DMT, having an amazing psychedelic trip and then in that trip, he pushes a button and the trip is over instantly, like he had never taken DMT. The DMT surely still was in his body, but the program in his brain decided to no longer use it - just ignored the substance. Also, there are cases where people take ayahuasca and absolutely nothing happens. Thus I believe that if some nasty substances in your food are causing depressive tendencies, it's because your brain has been conditioned to react to them in a certain way. Nothing is set in stone. Edited December 28, 2012 by Owledge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted December 29, 2012 Each to their own but we had lots of seriously messed up recreational drug users as patients in the psychiatric units I've worked in. I've heard many arguments about recreational drug use both yea and nay but from what I've seen I reckon the safest way is to steer well clear of anything that messes with your brain chemistry that wasn't prescribed for you by a qualified doctor. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted December 29, 2012 yeh but psychadelics arent really recreational more like once evry few years kind of thing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Each to their own but we had lots of seriously messed up recreational drug users as patients in the psychiatric units I've worked in. I've heard many arguments about recreational drug use both yea and nay but from what I've seen I reckon the safest way is to steer well clear of anything that messes with your brain chemistry that wasn't prescribed for you by a qualified doctor. Isn't "recreational drug" a vague term? To me, alhocol is a recreational drug. Psychedelics definitely not, since they are spiritual helpers and often cause a journey only suited for the bold seeker. I'd define recreational drugs as ones that put you into a pleasant state that will eventually fade without causing any change to you. THC might be considered a grey area, depending on dosage. High THC doses seem to be able to cause psychedelic/entheogen-like effects. Edited December 29, 2012 by Owledge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted December 29, 2012 OK not recreational, shit you buy from a dealer rather than from a registered pharmacist on prescription. I grew up in the 60s when LSD was everywhere and many who were teenagers then took it. A lot. My generation are now running the country. Look at the mess we're in! ;-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted December 29, 2012 lol lsd and peyote/ayuascha/iboga not sure if the same category but yeh maybe u got a point... peyote is worshipped in native american cultures..it is medicine, same with iboga and ayauascha You seen that film jacobs ladder I wonder what lsd actually is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted December 29, 2012 Yep alcohol is certainly the recreational drug of choice for many and everyone on here knows at least one person seriously messed up by booze. Psychedelics mess up your synapses, sometimes long term and sometimes quite a while after the trip. We discharged a guy who was clean for three years after; talented guitarist, got some gigs. Decided he could fly one night and got out of bed to give it a try. He was wrong. Left a girlfriend and a lovely little kid behind. Flashback they reckoned. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted December 29, 2012 OK not recreational, shit you buy from a dealer rather than from a registered pharmacist on prescription. I grew up in the 60s when LSD was everywhere and many who were teenagers then took it. A lot. My generation are now running the country. Look at the mess we're in! ;-) Collective blame, eh? Then you are part of the problem, being member of that 'generation'. The country isn't run by LSD fans, but - as usual - by the power-hungry elite. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Decided he could fly one night and got out of bed to give it a try. ... Flashback they reckoned. Oh my, that 'case' is the number one cliché argument against LSD. One of those things repeated endlessly by mainstream media. Also, they "reckoned" it was a flashback? Not sounding like detective work there. Everything can be harmful. You can pick a case where drinking water killed someone and then start your smear campaign against water. By the way, we should all be very careful with life, because statistics show a 100% mortality rate for people afflicted with life. Edited December 29, 2012 by Owledge 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) - Edited December 29, 2012 by Owledge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted December 29, 2012 Holding up my hands as I type. Guilty as charged your honour. Lucky to have survived this long. No way will anybody ever be convinced by anything I say on here but it passes the time posting. Healthy do beat sick though. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted December 29, 2012 Yep alcohol is certainly the recreational drug of choice for many and everyone on here knows at least one person seriously messed up by booze. Psychedelics mess up your synapses, sometimes long term and sometimes quite a while after the trip. We discharged a guy who was clean for three years after; talented guitarist, got some gigs. Decided he could fly one night and got out of bed to give it a try. He was wrong. Left a girlfriend and a lovely little kid behind. Flashback they reckoned. I am also curious as to this claim mess up your synapse. I would come up with random replys to why smoking weed is bad to my brother like 7 years ago eg it makes you stupid, thinking back it was kind of ignorant, but im just curious as to where this came from.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted December 29, 2012 Holding up my hands as I type. Guilty as charged your honour. Lucky to have survived this long. No way will anybody ever be convinced by anything I say on here but it passes the time posting. Healthy do beat sick though. You post much great stuff but as you say "no man is wise at all times" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted December 29, 2012 https://catbull.com/alamut/Bibliothek/Serotonin%20and%20Hallucinogens.pdf Just had a flashback. Remembered just how much I hated theory classes back in nursing school. :-) Drugs? Just say NO buddy. ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
