Bodhisattva

[Birch]

One, I have very few 'bubbles' left, you're not popping anything by talking down to me. Two, the reference in my sig is intended as a statement about the character of belief and the way meaning is derived from it. Three, I don't equate respectful discourse with the stance you're taking, nor your slights. Nothing to do with coddling:-)

I've been through that whole 'message/messenger' thing. One thing Guerdjieff did write about which I found interesting was the distance between knowledge and understanding. Reading your posts, I'd say you have some way to go to close the gap.

[adept]

The mind of a Bodhisattva is laid out in extremely explicit detail in the Flower Ornament Sutra (Avatamsaka).

That is, if you can devote the rest of your life to it's study and practices.

[konchog uma]

if you take the bodhisattva vow you'll have lifetime upon lifetime to practice!

 

you'll need it too, cleary's translation is over 1500 pages long... indeed

[Jetsun]

Shantideva explains it in much shorter texts such as his Bodhicharyavatara,yet you still have to be a master to understand the second half of that text.

[JustARandomPanda]

For the benefit of all beings everywhere without exception...

 

 

Bodhicharyavatara

 

and

 

Bodhicharyavatara online chapter by chapter study at bodhicharya.org

 

1st chapter PDF study of Bodhicharyavatar

Edited December 27, 2012 by SereneBlue

[JustARandomPanda]

And one other...

 

Authored by Nagarjuna himself (called the 2nd Buddha by some)....

 

Nagarjuna's Guide to the Bodhisattva Path

 

 

This is The Bodhisambhara Shastra ("Treatise on the Provisions for Enlightenment"), written by Arya Nagarjuna, the early Indian monk (ca 2nd c.) who is one of the most famous figures in the history of Indian Mahayana Buddhism. This work describes the essential prerequisites for achieving the complete enlightenment of a buddha while also describing the most important practices to be undertaken by bodhisattvas. The text is accompanied here by an abridged version of its only commentary, originally written by the early Indian Bhikshu Vasitva, a monk who lived sometime in the middle or first half of the first millennium. This volume includes facing-page source text for the stanzas in both traditional and simplified scripts. Abridgement, notes, and translation by the American monk, Bhikshu Dharmamitra.

 

 

Wiki page on Nagarjuna

 

 

Edit: Sneaking in this next one too. I have the one above but am having to wait to get the next:

 

 

Nagarjuna on the Six Perfections

 

 

This text is a translation of chapters 17-30 of Arya Nagarjuna's immense "Exegesis on the Great Perfection of Wisdom Sutra" (Mahaprajnaparamita-upadesa). It is a free-standing section of that commentary exclusively devoted to analyzing and explaining the various levels of practice of the bodhisattva's six perfections. In it, Nagarjuna sets forth numerous stories, analogies, and analyses as he reveals the deepest meaning of giving, moral virtue, patience, vigor, meditative discipline, and transcendent wisdom, the six primary qualities cultivated by a bodhisattva in progressing toward buddhahood. The translation is by the American monk, Bhikshu Dharmamitra. This volume includes facing-page source text in both traditional and simplified scripts as well as extensive text-structure outlining provided by the translator.

Edited December 27, 2012 by SereneBlue

[konchog uma]

awesome sereneblue, thank you!

[JustARandomPanda]

awesome sereneblue, thank you!

 

Glad you liked it.

 

Here's another one I'm chomping at the bit to get.

 

 

Vasubandhu's Treatise on the Bodhisattva Vow

 

Vasubandhu (circa 300 C.E.)

 

And here's what one Amazon reviewer said about the aforementioned book

 

Asanga and his half brother Vasubandhu reinvigorated Mahayana Buddhism in India. Asanga, by receiving the 5 books of Maitreya from his teacher, Vasubandhu by composing The Treasury of Abhidharma (Skt. Abhidharmakosha), the encyclopedia of the Hinayana Vehicle, then evolved systematically into the Mahayana Yogachara view championed by his brother with the "Thirty Stanzas on the Mind" (Trimsikavijñapti-karika) and other classic exposition of Yogacara clarity.

 

Where as Shantideva's "Guide to the Bodhisattva Path" is a deeply personal exhortation to practice using the 6 perfections as a framework, the "Treatise on the Bodhisattva Vow" is a detailed step by step explanation of the Stages and Grounds of the Path in a concise outline with amazing detail, yet spoken form the personal experience of the mediator. They are the perfect compliments - both do different jobs, and do them well.

[ShenLung]

I am not a very wise man, but I cannot help but ponder on those old warriors

Who, having their fill of death, would shave their heads, and enter the monastery

spending the remainder of their days in prayer and meditation.

 

Removing themselves from the field of conflict - what compassion!

[Vmarco]

for a complete version of the 37 practices in the form of a small booklet (3"x4") send email to garchen institute, i think they will mail you one.

 

they are wonderful practice material, and have a lot more to do with the bodhisattva path than certain examples that are being set claiming to be the only bodhisattva in town lol

 

 

Interesting. What about your belief "people who have actually realized emptiness know you can't discuss it."?

 

 

Suppose Avalokitesvara's Dharma Gate in the Shurangama Sutra is nonsense, because it doesn't jive with your belief system,...or what about Bubbles "The 37 Practices of a Bodhisattva By Ngulchu Thogme" those too must be false.

 

However, all your mental stuff can go on endlessly, because you obviously have no wherewithall to wake up. Your points (Bubbles, Seth Ananda, Anamatva, etc) are clear,...only those you say can be Bodhisattvas ,can be Bodhisattvas.

 

For those others, who are not Spoilers, I wholly agree with the Practices of a Bodhisattva above,...although not in the relative way that believers see it.

 

The Practice begins, "You see that all phenomena neither come nor go." Until that is understood, the rest of the Practice is merely conceptual.

 

As I have mentioned several times recently,...the simpliest definition of a Bodhisattva and Compassion is found in the one-page Heart Sutra,...delivered by the Bodhisattva of Compassion, Avalokitesvara. As mentioned several times recently,...if any wished to discussed the best commentary on the Heart Sutra, by Karl Brunnholzl, I'd be happy to participate in such discussion.

 

I have not contradicted a single statement found in the Heart sutra in any post on this forum. I have a nonconceptual understanding that "all phenomena neither comes nor goes".... because the nature of emptiness has been realized.

 

The mantra of the Heart Sutra says, Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha! which means, to go, to come, beyond going and coming, into complete going and coming, where enlightenment is welcomed. I must have mentioned this more than a hundred times on TTB.

 

Besides being a Buddhist statement, it is equally a Daoist one,...

"the Tao doesn't come and go." Lao-zu.

[Vmarco]

if you take the bodhisattva vow you'll have lifetime upon lifetime to practice!

 

you'll need it too, cleary's translation is over 1500 pages long... indeed

 

You don't need that at all. If you understood the one-sentence mantra, in the one-page Heart Sutra, there would be no reason to spend a single day, let alone lifetimes as you suggested, to realize the way things are.

 

Unfortunately, most, like yourself, are mentally attached to a Long Path,...those on the Long Paths are just not ready to wake up. Maybe next life. However, why spoil things for those who want to wake up in this lifetime?

[Vmarco]

Glad you liked it.

 

Here's another one I'm chomping at the bit to get.

 

 

 

If you are really chomping at the bit for an excellent book about Bodhisattvas,...try the Heart Attack Sutra,...written in today's language, for people in the 21st century. Delicious!

 

http://www.shambhala.com/the-heart-attack-sutra.html

 

SereneBlue, you are surely ready for the quantum leap.

[Seth Ananda]

hehe, no all I am saying is that you are not a Bodhisattva Vmarco. Not even close.

 

There are lists describing the qualities of a Bodhisattva, and you do not meet the requirements on nearly any of them.

 

 

 

And saying that you are not interested in the Teacher/Student thing is a Lie. That is all you are interested in.

 

If you were not interested in being seen as a teacher, you would not be saying that you are a Bodhisattva.

But more importantly you would actually converse with people.

 

You do not converse. you 'teach'. You wait for others to stop speaking so that you can step back into your Teacher role, and talk down to them again and again.

 

I have never seen you converse with anyone.

 

The only pleasant interactions anyone here has with you is when they are discussing your Ideas with you, in other words, when you are teaching...

 

 

So do not lie and say that you have no Interest in the Teacher Student thing again. Lying is not on the Bodhisattva list.

[Seth Ananda]

What is most dangerous, is those Spoilers who believe that everything is Teacher/Student. I am neither a Teacher nor Student. To take that further, I'm quite uninterested in Teachers and Students. Spoilers are near always Teachers and Students,...attempting to protect their Teacher/Student indoctrination.

 

[konchog uma]

Interesting. What about your belief "people who have actually realized emptiness know you can't discuss it."?

 

yes what about it.

 

Suppose Avalokitesvara's Dharma Gate in the Shurangama Sutra is nonsense, because it doesn't jive with your belief system,...or what about Bubbles "The 37 Practices of a Bodhisattva By Ngulchu Thogme" those too must be false.

 

However, all your mental stuff can go on endlessly, because you obviously have no wherewithall to wake up. Your points (Bubbles, Seth Ananda, Anamatva, etc) are clear,...only those you say can be Bodhisattvas ,can be Bodhisattvas.

 

your suppositions, and all your attempts to put words in our mouths, are useless. You are only making yourself look like a fool. All bubbles did was post a link to a different source than yours for all this dialectic. Same with me. Seth pointed out the glaring logical fallacies in your approach, like, for example, the fact that in the OP you say who is and isn't a bodhisattva in no uncertain terms, and then criticize the three of us for saying who can and can't be bodhisattvas in spite of the fact that you can't quote us because WE NEVER SAID THAT. none of us did.. What the fuck are you smoking?? I do hope you overdose on it before your illogical approach to polluting the dharma spreads beyond the bounds of your wild imagination.

 

Has it ever occured to you that simply because you overestimate your own accomplishments and underestimate everyone elses doesn't actually even mean anything? It doesn't make you a spiritual authority, it doesn't make you a teacher, or a bodhisattva, it makes you a deluded taobum with nothing better to do than type at us. You aren't a spiritual authority. If you think you're a bodhisattva, you have a lot to learn.

 

You should actually read the 37 practices and then PUT THEM TO ACTION instead of criticizing bubbles and i for posting them. If you actually cared about the spread of the dharma instead of your own pretentious agenda, you would never have said anything resembling that.

 

For those others, who are not Spoilers, I wholly agree with the Practices of a Bodhisattva above,...although not in the relative way that believers see it.

 

your dichotomous approach to "conversation" (and by that i mean browbeating the rest of us with your own dogmatic point of view) is testament to the fact that you have not grasped nonduality yet. Your insistance on dividing the world up into spoilers, believers, dangerous breeds, and other worthless and subjective distinctions says more about you than you think.

 

if you think you are going to awaken us to the truth of the one bodhisattva vmarco and his grand realization of emptiness, i wish you could see yourself from an outside perspective, and a humble one at that.. till then, im not going to take the bait of getting into a conversation with you. i just jumped into this thread to remind people of the words of an actual teacher on the practices of bodhisattvas, and to remind people that those who talk loudly rarely say anything worth listening to. Especially about emptiness. Nothing further to contribute. Have a nice life vmarco. You're on ignore so forgive me for not paying attention to any more of your blather.

Edited December 28, 2012 by anamatva

[konchog uma]

hehe, no all I am saying is that you are not a Bodhisattva Vmarco. Not even close.

 

There are lists describing the qualities of a Bodhisattva, and you do not meet the requirements on nearly any of them.

 

quite so

[C T]

*browbeating*

 

that's such an apt description.

 

The urban buddhist dictionary defines a bodhisattva as one who browbeats others into submissive agreement, then the one who submits becomes ready for the quantum leap. NOt!

 

Reminds me of those outdated US power seminars where participants, deprived of sleep for hours, succumb to trainers who, having gained a distinct advantage, proceed to bombard them silly, break down all resistance, make them sob like babies, and then claim to rebuild a whole new person thru positive affirmations and such. All in a space of four days! They used to call that team-building and leadership training. Funny, come to think of it, how i could actually be recruited by them as a trainer all those years ago. Yikes. Good life experience, tho.

Edited December 28, 2012 by C T

[konchog uma]

*browbeating*

 

that's such an apt description.

 

The urban buddhist dictionary defines a bodhisattva as one who browbeats others into submissive agreement, then the one who submits becomes ready for the quantum leap. NOt!

 

Reminds me of those outdated US power seminars where participants, deprived of sleep for hours, succumb to trainers who, having gained a distinct advantage, proceed to bombard them silly, break down all resistance, make them sob like babies, and then claim to rebuild a whole new person thru positive affirmations and such. All in a space of four days! They used to call that team-building and leadership training. Funny, come to think of it, how i could actually be recruited by them as a trainer all those years ago. Yikes. Good life experience, tho.

 

lol it certainly prepared you well for "conversations" on taobums lol

 

... ladies and gentleman, for my next trick, i am going to focus on one tiny glimmer of dharma that i intellectually grasp (although admittedly i have no realization of it) and bombard you with QUOTE after QUOTE after QUOTE reinforcing my own personal agenda (maintaining plausible deniability that its actually *my* agenda) and when the audience becomes weary of seeing through the thin veneer of my egotistical posturing, i will proceed to label all who disagree with me or cite DIFFERENT sources as Spoilers (capital S!) Believers (which, while i use it as a pejorative, allows me the out of saying that i never belittle or demean anyone on this forum!) and Sheeple. Once i have nauseated everyone in the room i will proceed, as a fantastic finale, to declare myself the ONE and ONLY realized member on the forum, in a vainglorious attempt to negate the realization and accomplishments of EACH and EVERY other member of this spiritual community in ONE SINGLE DECISIVE display of my own arrogance and conceit! ladies and gentleman, ARE... YOU... READY.....

 

wait

 

what do you mean someone just did that earlier this week?

 

what? you'd rather see meekness and integrity

 

what are those?

 

thats the last time i play this stupid club... im outta here suckers! [*dodges tomatoes and various rotten vegatables in beeline for stage door left*]

[JustARandomPanda]

If you are really chomping at the bit for an excellent book about Bodhisattvas,...try the Heart Attack Sutra,...written in today's language, for people in the 21st century. Delicious!

 

http://www.shambhala...tack-sutra.html

 

SereneBlue, you are surely ready for the quantum leap.

 

 

Yes. I have very much considered either saving up to get that book or see if I'm lucky enough that my library has it. Kinda bummed out Amazon doesn't have a "look inside" feature for it as it does for most other books. That author's other books also look very good as well. I suppose it would be no great surprise to most people I'm a bookworm. Have been since I was a little kid. Always got my nose stuck in a book somewhere - these days often reading some sutra or commentary or whatnot.

 

Whenever I find a book or other resource I find helpful or delightful I enjoy sharing it with TTB.

 

Anyway...I am certainly no sotapanna nor arhat and definitely not a Bodhisattva. Heck...I haven't even reached Stream Entry.

 

Yet this subject is dear to my heart because I genuinely aspire to be one someday.

 

My only point of departure from your own position (assuming I understood you correctly - which I admit I may not have) is that I do see meditation as being helpful and I seem to recall a post you made wherein you stated that it was not necessary(?). I'm not skillful nor advanced enough in my practice that "everyday" life is my "practice". I mean...ultimately I hope to get to that point of course but I'm nowhere near close to that yet. OK. Actually if I were really advanced there wouldn't be anything to call a practice but whatever....

 

 

Here's my current hypothesis (yes...I suppose some might say a hypothesis is a belief...so be it. as I said..I'm not even a stream enterer yet...):

 

 

I can not recall the exact sutra but I believe it was one where the Buddha was talking about dependent origination (ok there's probably tons of those but I can't remember the specific one I'm thinking of). When this arises that next becomes. But he also said that in order to realize the truth of what he was teaching one needed to still the mind.

 

He then went on a discourse about how the 6 senses work along with dependent origination. When ignorance arises...name and form next become (If I recall correctly)...and so on and so on through all 12 links.

 

The way out of this trap he said is to deny the senses the outlet they seek to contact.

 

By denying any of the senses its point of contact (of whichever one you've chosen to focus upon with your practice) that sense will be forced to turn back in upon itself. And so the long climb back "up the chain" (to use my own phrasing) will begin.

 

My hypothesis is this. That meditation is precisely this. It's slowly denying or cutting off the contact that "thought consciousness" normally seeks (it's manifested outcome being monkey mind). As one trains in focused concentration on the breath or sound (to use 2 examples) it begins slowly - then with increasing effectiveness - to deny thoughts their normal outward contact/expression. Ordinary consciousness is thus forced to 'turn back on itself' and as the Buddha noted when one sense is liberated all the rest are as well.

 

Curiously...to my great surprise ...the Corpus Hermetica has some passages that agree with what the Buddha taught! It also talks about how denying the senses their normal outward contacts begins the process of turning around and ascending back to Supreme Enlightenment. Well it doesn't put it in exactly those terms but there was no doubt as I read those passages that was precisely what Poimenandres was describing!

 

 

My thought is however that even should all 6 be liberated that still doesn't necessarily mean one is a Bodhisattva (I think...). I'm not even sure it makes one a Sotapanna just yet (Stream Enterer maybe...), much less a Bodhisattva of the 1st Bhumi. But then again...I have not studied this to a great extent yet. And I definitely can not claim to speak from actual personal experience (alas).

 

 

I have memorized the Heart Sutra. It's short and easy to remember and sometimes I'll even recite it out loud as I'm driving to the grocery store or where ever. I've even been mulling over the thought of memorizing all 554 lines of the Shurangama Mantra - of which memorization and recitation is said to generate great amounts of merit.

 

 

BTW - any of you who are interested in why Gurdjieff said that a person denied "impressions" can not last even 1 second before true madness sets in should get the latest issue of Ideas Discoveries. P. 56

 

It has an article on the brain science of REAL Silence and darkness (0 decibel laboratory) and the onset of madness. To date no one has lasted in such experiments longer than 45 minutes. Within a few minutes feelings of great terror and panic begin to arise followed by auditory and visual hallucinations.

 

Such hallucinations come on even if only light is cut off but it's greatly amplified if all sound is cut off as well. Lack of sound seems to be even more ruinous than lack of sight.

 

In short...Kwan Yin (can't remember the Sanskrit spelling) was onto something when saying focusing on sound is a good way to gain liberation....

 

If nothing else...you'd be able to survive the horrors of a zero decibel/zero light laboratory test or solitary confinement in prison.

 

 

 

p.s. I suspect a Bodhisattva could survive such a lab test with no problem at all.

Edited December 28, 2012 by SereneBlue

[Birch]

Sounds like something God would do. Well, the one that people would have me believe in might.

 

[idiot_stimpy]

Vmarco, does phenomenon exist on a non-conceptual level?

[C T]

I just found out that 'Dainin' is a bodhisattva. 'Dainin' is Japanese for 'true adult/bodhisattva'.

 

Dainin, where are you?

 

Buddhist mag 'Tricycle' points a finger at what a bodhisattva is ~ http://www.tricycle.com/new-buddhism/bodhisattvas/what-bodhisattva

[konchog uma]

"It's not enough just to know the definition of bodhisattva. What's much more important is to study the actions of a bodhisattva and then to behave like one yourself."

 

nice article thanks CT

[C T]

"It's not enough just to know the definition of bodhisattva. What's much more important is to study the actions of a bodhisattva and then to behave like one yourself."

 

nice article thanks CT

 

Yvw, A.

 

I like this part: "Its not enough for a bodhisattva of the Mahayana to just uphold the precepts. There are times when you have to break them, too. Its just that when you do, you have to do so with the resolve of also being willing to accept whatever consequences might follow. That's what 'together with all sentient beings' -- (no matter what hell one might fall into) -- really means."

 

For slating Vmarco here with such insolence, i know i am already hell-bound. I am prepared though. The deeper it gets, the cleaner i become. The hotter it gets, the faster will accumulated karmic dross burn. So, lets not be selfish hypocrites and pretend that enlightenment awaits. Hell it is for me. Lets do it. It'll be some ride.

 

Vmarco can have my merits, he'll surely get enlightened, on the 'short path' that he is.

Edited December 28, 2012 by C T

[Vmarco]

"It's not enough just to know the definition of bodhisattva. What's much more important is to study the actions of a bodhisattva and then to behave like one yourself."

 

nice article thanks CT

 

The actions you're observing arise from that which Bodhisattvas wish you can be liberated from,...thus a flawed exercize from the onset.

 

Would it not be better to realize the nature of emptiness,...and through that would be the awareness of what a Bodhisattva and compassion really is,...according to the Eight foremost Bodhisattvas, Shantideva, HH Dalai Lama, etc. They say compassion is impossible without the realization of emptiness,...so why do you insist on all this nonsense fed to you by CowTow and others, who obviously do not want you to acquire the sight of a Bodhisattva because it is not palatable to their paradigms.

 

The Heart Sutra, as agreed upon by all High Level Buddhists, is how a Bodhisattva sees. A Bodhisattva does not accumulate knowledge and imagined good karma. Karma is a product of samsaric consciousness,...it is not real.

 

As a Buddhist once said, "We condemn the real and we enforce the unreal, because the unreal is going to be helpful in an unreal society and the unreal is going to be convenient…A child is born in a society, and a society is already there with its fixed rules, regulations, behaviors and moralities which the child has to learn.

 

When he will grow he will become false. Then children will be born to him, and he will help make them false, and this goes on and on. What to do?"

 

 

.