Bodhisattva

[thelerner]

If you wanted to discuss and explain your definition of Bodhisattva, why start with such a harsh tone? Why open with insults and condescension to the group? You did realize the thread would quickly become a little war zone. You attack people they attack back, then you fall back on the Sheeple offensive.

 

You can have a normal conversation here. Really. State your belief opinion, discuss the feed back without airs. Even in the highest ranks there are disagreements about the fundamentals, and we are all far from the highest ranks. So unless you not so secretly like creating and being attacked, why not edit your writing a bit. Still stating your ideas, but give condescension a break.

 

Or better yet, don't give break. Be your normal self, then on January 1st, make a special effort to be nice. Nothing negative..bite your tongue, double check and rewrite your posts.. Just as an experiment, see what happens. You won't have to give up any of your normal rhetoric, but you'll just have to edit out the derision. Which I expect might be hard because you do it in almost every post. Its really not needed.

 

Please, just try it, not now, but in 4 days, January 1st for 3 weeks. Just being in live and let live mode. Stating your truths and keeping your writing positive. It can be done. You can do it. It will be hard. The big reward is people will take your ideas and writing to heart.

[Seth Ananda]

You are wrong Vmarco, to shun the relative. Remember form is emptiness and emptiness is form?

 

Relative existence is the only reason that there are any Bodhisattva's in the first place. Bodhisattvas love the beings within the relative.

And we must not denigrate the relative world. The environment, this beautiful world or beautiful Illusion is still here, real or not, and is not going away.

The Dzogchen texts say that after realisation, the world remains as an ornament of pure enjoyment.

 

They don't shun it, saying "All you relative dickheads are just belieftards, not like me, I am absolute, im awesome, i dont exist, listen to me pleeeaaase... waaaa!! how dare you think your own thoughts and not agree with me...waaaa!! you dickheads..."

 

Unfortunately that is what most of your posts come off like...

[Vmarco]

 

The urban buddhist dictionary defines a bodhisattva as one who browbeats others into submissive agreement, then the one who submits becomes ready for the quantum leap. NOt!

 

 

Again,...more Spoiler nonsense. This thread is not about some Americanized urban BS defining a Bodhisattva,...but the definition alluded to in the top post:

 

Thus, teachers such as Robert Thurman, an esteemed student of HH Dalai Lama, stated, "Buddhist teachings on compassion are grounded in the direct realization of Emptiness; without which, compassion is impossible."

 

And what does HH Dalai Lama say about compassion? "If I have any understanding of compassion..., it all comes from studying the Bodhicharyavatara" HH Dalai Lama

 

What does the Bodhicharyavatara (Way of the Bodhisattva) say? "The whole of the Bodhicharyvatara is geared toward prajna, the direct realization of emptiness, absolute bodhichitta, without which the true practice of compassion is impossible."

 

Lao-zu said, "If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of your self."

 

 

The intent of this thread is about how to See as a Bodhisattva. How to see as a Bodhisattva can be fully understood from the Heart Sutra. If one needs extra help in understanding the Heart Sutra, an excellent commentary was suggested, The Heart Attack Sutra, by an internationally known scholar of the Prajnaparamita. Afterwards, VMarco has offered to converse about anything in the Heart Sutra, or Commentary, to help those desireous to better or fully understand the Perception of the Profound.

 

VMarco first became familiar with the nature of emptiness in 1974, as can be seen in the thread What is Light

http://thetaobums.com/topic/19803-what-is-light/

 

Later, in the 1990's, while studying Zero in Mesoamerica, VMarco realized the spiritual nature of emptiness,...its How, Why, Where, When. VMarco is easily accessible for peer discussions on Emptiness, Dependent Origination, Nirvana, Who's Who in Duality, etc. VMarco is not a teacher, nor accepts, under any condition, students. Teachers and Students belong to the World's Long Path's,...that is, those who are not ready to wake up.

[ShenLung]

Karma is a product of samsaric consciousness,...it is not real.

 

Could you, perhaps, expound upon this concept in a way that would enable one to help others attain liberation from false beliefs in such a way as to disregard the belief in a thing such as Karma? The unbroken line of cause and effect in experience is something that we, as observerse of nature in the purely intellectual sense, have always relied upon in order to test theory and hypothesis; If it could be proven by logic to be false, then we would naturally have to re-order our method of determining scientific truth.

 

Sometimes, "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer. It is, at least, an honest one.

[C T]

If you wanted to discuss and explain your definition of Bodhisattva, why start with such a harsh tone? Why open with insults and condescension to the group? You did realize the thread would quickly become a little war zone. You attack people they attack back, then you fall back on the Sheeple offensive.

 

You can have a normal conversation here. Really. State your belief opinion, discuss the feed back without airs. Even in the highest ranks there are disagreements about the fundamentals, and we are all far from the highest ranks. So unless you not so secretly like creating and being attacked, why not edit your writing a bit. Still stating your ideas, but give condescension a break.

 

Or better yet, don't give break. Be your normal self, then on January 1st, make a special effort to be nice. Nothing negative..bite your tongue, double check and rewrite your posts.. Just as an experiment, see what happens. You won't have to give up any of your normal rhetoric, but you'll just have to edit out the derision. Which I expect might be hard because you do it in almost every post. Its really not needed.

 

Please, just try it, not now, but in 4 days, January 1st for 3 weeks. Just being in live and let live mode. Stating your truths and keeping your writing positive. It can be done. You can do it. It will be hard. The big reward is people will take your ideas and writing to heart.

 

Great fatherly advice, sir.

 

Too late, i say. The flicker of hope that s/he will cop on and make the necessary adjustments has completely faded. Now, even if the will to compromise and talk nice reignites, the ego will not, will never, ever, allow the act to materialize.

 

Can you imagine the consequences should Vmarco suddenly appear here (what, January 1st you proposed?) conversing normally, like most other bums? God forbid that another sheeple be born!!

 

By his haughtiness and natural ability to always rub people the wrong way, s/he has failed to take to heart the advice of one of the founding fathers of freethinking, Robert Ingersoll, who wisely said, "Happiness is the only good. The time to be happy is now. The place to be happy is here. The way to be happy is to make others so." Now, this statement, as it stands, truly hallmarks the bodhisattva ideal.

[Vmarco]

Vmarco, does phenomenon exist on a non-conceptual level?

 

Phenomena does not exist. However, phenomena is perceivable on the non-conceptual level of Suchness,...not because phenomena is real, or part of Suchness,...but because from Suchness, or the Way Things really Are, the illusion of phenomena can be interacted with, through what Bodhisattvas call Enumerations of Phenomena. Thus, Sakyamuni himself enter samadhi by way of the Enumerations of Phenomena, to discuss the Perception of the Profound, or Nature of Emptiness, as described in the Heart Sutra.

 

Enumerations include the skandhas, and aspects of all phenomena. This is, according to the Heart Sutra, how Bodhisattvas see. Obviously, most here do not want to see as a Bodhisattva,...that is, with full awareness of the Nature of Emptiness.

 

Karl Brunnholzl discusses the Enumerations of Phenomena in his commentary on the Heart Sutra (The Heart Attack Sutra). The phenomena is seen,...but not object-ively. It is seen for what it is,....Empty.

[C T]

 

VMarco first became familiar with the nature of emptiness in 1974.

 

CT took his first pee when he was a couple of hours old.

[ShenLung]

I am not an overly wise person, nor very bright. Please take your time, and use small words. This logical method of seperating cause and effect is something that, I feel may be of great benefit to many suffering people.

 

(edit) even english is hard for me

Edited December 28, 2012 by ShenLung

[Vmarco]

 

By his haughtiness and natural ability to always rub people the wrong way, s/he has failed to take to heart the advice of one of the founding fathers of freethinking, Robert Ingersoll, who wisely said, "Happiness is the only good. The time to be happy is now. The place to be happy is here. The way to be happy is to make others so." Now, this statement, as it stands, truly hallmarks the bodhisattva ideal.

 

Robert Ingersol was an atheist (a believer in no god) who stole the term Freethought to apply to his belief in no god.

 

Freethought (abt 1705) is defined as being unrestrained by differences to authority, tradition or belief. Thus, an atheist freethinker is an oxymoron.

There can be no happiness in samsara, because samsara is built upon the delusion of suffering. The real Father of Freethought was Sakyamuni,...who said in the Kalama Sutra, "Do not accept anything by mere tradition. . . Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures. . . Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your preconceived notions."

This is terrible news for CowTow,....who clings to tradition, Pali scriptures, and his preconceived notions for his identity.

[Vmarco]

CT took his first pee when he was a couple of hours old.

 

Yes,...and his posts suggest that he still pees on himself.

[JustARandomPanda]

I'm not sure anyone can change anyone else's posting style at TTB. And while technically VMarco does sometimes have an abrasive manner of addressing others some of the things he mentions are in line with what Buddhism actually teaches. Apech pointed that out earlier.

 

 

Perhaps it might help other thread participants to see how I've approached this thread?

 

1. Lately I've been studying Stoicism. There are some remarkable similarities between Taoism and Stoicism and in some cases Buddhism as well.

 

One thing that Epictetus taught his students is to be 'non-flappable' regarding some one else's behavior. Particularly his or her behavior toward you no matter whether that person was rude and disrespectful to you nor if they were full of praise and admiration. To give credence to either is to still chain yourself to that which is impermanent nor able to give lasting happiness.

 

2. To my mind this has some similarities to what Buddhists are doing when they are trying to invoke Tathagata Immoveable. The Stoics were all about teaching that fighting against what is...is so exhausting...leads to dissatisfaction and makes you a slave to your own passions for good or ill. The virtue of heaven (the tao) is far removed from anyone who doesn't aim for equanimity in the face of a situation they wished were not so. A diligent Stoic practiced to become more like that Tathagata Immoveable.

 

3. Diogenes the Cynic (precursor school to the Stoics) would deliberately walk through the Athenian market and fora in the nastiest, dirtiest of rags simply to train in equanimity in the face of other men's outright disdain, mockery and ridicule. I suppose that's one way to really teach yourself how to not be swayed by other people's opinions or behavior toward you. If nothing else it'll drain you of Pride and Love-of-Fame in a hurry. He was a more dedicated, stalwart practicer than I that's for sure...

 

While I would prefer a more...hmm...amenable or less 'in-your-face' approach from Vmarco posts at times on the other hand I realize it lets me see sticking points in myself that need work. I guess it's wanting VMarco to be other than what VMarco is... *shrug*

 

 

Well if that doesn't teach why it's a good idea to practice meditation and try to uphold the Tao I dunno what is.

 

I suppose someone could point out it's me excusing behavior that should not be excused. And maybe they'd even have a point. I don't think I have the wisdom to be able to distinguish such though - at least not yet. I know what my *passions* say - I would prefer a less in-your-face approach from VMarco's posts. But that's my passions acting. How can I be sure that if I actually were manifesting Tathagata Immoveable I would act/think/conclude the same? Maybe it'd simply be a non-issue (unless other sentient beings were being hurt)...?

 

Hence Epictetus and the other Stoics teaching his students to practice being immoveable - i.e. equanimity. Some Taoists I'm sure will very much disagree with my understanding of the Tao (and Stoicism) - but I have found this approach helpful personally in my own life.

 

There is one other possibility.

 

4. Anyone who actually does want to discuss Bodhisattvas could simply discuss it amongst each other in this thread and simply pass over VMarco's posts. There's nothing that really says anyone HAS to respond to his posts. You could all post about it and never react or comment on his posts in the least.

 

I don't think TTB participants nor lurkers are so dumb as to not make their own conclusions as to what posts they find helpful and those which they don't.

[Vmarco]

I am not an overly wise person, nor very bright. Please take your time, and use small words. This logical method of seperating cause and effect is something that, I feel may be of great benefit to many suffering people.

 

(edit) even english is hard for me

 

From the point of view of the Nature of Emptiness, there is no Cause and Effect,...just Effects. A fulcrum (the Tao) does not "cause" the motion of the lever,...upon the fulcrum, the lever (duality) effects its motion.

[C T]

Yes,...and his posts suggest that he still pees on himself.

 

 

only when i start laughing out loud and hard upon reading yours.

[ShenLung]

From the point of view of the Nature of Emptiness, there is no Cause and Effect,...just Effects. A fulcrum (the Tao) does not "cause" the motion of the lever,...upon the fulcrum, the lever (duality) effects its motion.

 

Not to get too far off topic, but would you then agree that the most impenetrable fortess is also that which one can not escape?

 

As a wee dragon playing in the clouds, such things amuse me. In emptiness, there is no mind to conceive of such things as logic, or cause and effect. Nor are there such intellectual conceits as fulcrums or levers. (no mind to conceive of these fancies). I'm glad you came out to play, but your strategy needs some work. Perfect logic only works when two or more are playing for the same stakes, after all.

 

Love you

[C T]

Serene Blue...

 

I admire your courage and commitment.

 

I just want to say, it really is tough to understand what this poster who goes by the name Vmarco is saying, even when s/he tries to write intelligibly. Take, for example, posts 58 and 64, where, to the unawares, it appears like the writer wants to explain to show his learned wisdom, but, seriously, i'm Buddhist by birth, started reading sutras when i was a kid, not especially bright, but i get by, yet, i could not, for the life of me, derive any meaning from those words, yet, the hidden tone, the condescendingness, especially the 2-liner response to Shen Lung's question, says it all, so audibly in fact, that it literally hurt my eardrums. What kind of an idiot, who claims to have attained realization since '74, would write a 2-lined response to such an intelligent, sincere question?

 

I would never take Vmarco's writings as substantial enough to invest time in contemplation, and i would encourage you to tread carefully too. To engage him/her is spiritual seppuku, the master of disinformation that s/he is. Look at what he said Ingersoll was, and then try to verify that with Ingersoll's wikigraphy. Atheist my arse. And calling someone a thief, my, thats really neat.

[ShenLung]

Serene Blue...

 

I admire your courage and commitment.

 

I just want to say, it really is tough to understand what this poster who goes by the name Vmarco is saying, even when s/he tries to write intelligibly. Take, for example, posts 58 and 64, where, to the unawares, it appears like the writer wants to explain to show his learned wisdom, but, seriously, i'm Buddhist by birth, started reading sutras when i was a kid, not especially bright, but i get by, yet, i could not, for the life of me, derive any meaning from those words, yet, the hidden tone, the condescendingness, especially the 2-liner response to Shen Lung's question, says it all, so audibly in fact, that it literally hurt my eardrums. What kind of an idiot, who claims to have attained realization since '74, would write a 2-lined response to such an intelligent, sincere question?

 

I would never take Vmarco's writings as substantial enough to invest time in contemplation, and i would encourage you to tread carefully too. To engage him/her is spiritual seppuku, the master of disinformation that s/he is. Look at what he said Ingersoll was, and then try to verify that with Ingersoll's wikigraphy. Atheist my arse. And calling someone a thief, my, thats really neat.

 

Nihilism is a very pervasive trap; an intellectual prison from which one can only escape though personal enlightenment. It is resistant to all attack, and that enlightenment comes in only two forms: Death and rebirth, or death and reanimation. If a way can be found to pass through the self reinforcing delusion of the sufferer, then the nihilist might make progress in their current incarnation. The question I posed IS sincere, in that this is something that one would like to know ... it is sadly unanswerable within the realms of consciousness. The main purpose was, and is, to draw the sufferer out from behind the prison so that help may be rendered, if possible. Truly compassionate persons will be needed to aid here, since my facility is more of a lance than a bandage, if you get my drift.

[JustARandomPanda]

Serene Blue...

 

I admire your courage and commitment.

 

I just want to say, it really is tough to understand what this poster who goes by the name Vmarco is saying, even when s/he tries to write intelligibly. Take, for example, posts 58 and 64, where, to the unawares, it appears like the writer wants to explain to show his learned wisdom, but, seriously, i'm Buddhist by birth, started reading sutras when i was a kid, not especially bright, but i get by, yet, i could not, for the life of me, derive any meaning from those words, yet, the hidden tone, the condescendingness, especially the 2-liner response to Shen Lung's question, says it all, so audibly in fact, that it literally hurt my eardrums. What kind of an idiot, who claims to have attained realization since '74, would write a 2-lined response to such an intelligent, sincere question?

 

 

Hmm...well I admit that reply in post 58 was baffling but I just assumed that was because I have no direct experience of what this topic is about nor any of the paths, grounds, stages or whatnot that lead to it.

 

I did however look up the phrase - Enumerations of Phenomena - and Google Books reported back the following:

 

Heart Sutra Explained: Indian and Tibetan Commentaries

 

A Tibetan oral commentary places significance in the conjunctions of the terms "perception of the profound" and "enumerations of phenomena", seeing in it an allusion to the omniscient consciousness of the Buddha capable of realizing directly and simultaneously all of the modes and varieties of phenomena, that is, both emptiness and the phenomena qualified by emptiness.

 

All other beings are incapable of such simultaneous realization; if they directly realize emptiness, they can not discern the phenomena qualified by emptiness, and if they perceive conventional truths they cannot directly realize emptiness at that time.

 

Only a Buddha, therefore can remain directly aware of reality while acting in the world; he can perceive the profound emptiness while remaining in full awareness of all the enumerations of phenomena.

 

That this ability is unique to a Buddha imples that when the sutra says that Avalokitesevara, a Bodhisattva, was viewing the aggregates and saw they were empty, his vision was not direct, but inferential, because he was able to speak out of this vision, something that even a highly advanced Bodhisattva could not do in direct realization of emptiness.

 

Maybe the above is one reason why the Buddha steadfastly maintained there was a vast difference between being even a 10th Bhumi Bodhisattva and an actual Buddha?

 

 

I would never take Vmarco's writings as substantial enough to invest time in contemplation, and i would encourage you to tread carefully too. To engage him/her is spiritual seppuku, the master of disinformation that s/he is. Look at what he said Ingersoll was, and then try to verify that with Ingersoll's wikigraphy. Atheist my arse. And calling someone a thief, my, thats really neat.

 

 

My personal approach is that a message or information often has value independent of how or whom is delivering it. If the information is good most of the time with enough digging around one can discover if that info is worth investigating further or dropping.

 

Granted it's not a foolproof method. I could be led astray just like anyone else. But that's why I'm practicing - so that (hopefully) the day will come when insight and wisdom will be direct.

[JustARandomPanda]

I just had a weird thought.

 

If what that Tibetan commentary says is true.

 

uh...

 

I'm beginning to wonder if Alwayson is more right than even he knows when he keeps insisting that direct realization of emptiness is a higher level attainment than anyone who posts at TTB (yes, everyone - including everyone in this thread!) has ever had.

 

 

edit:

 

Speaking of Alwayson

 

The same guy who wrote The Heart Attack Sutra is the same one who wrote one of Alwayson's favorite books:

 

The Center of the Sunlit Sky: Madhyamaka in the Kagyu Tradition

 

(it supposedly gives a good explanation of Buddhism's 7 point chariot analysis)

 

And the same guy will soon release a new book

 

Mining for Wisdom within Delusion: Maitreya's Distinction Between Phenomena and the Nature of Phenomena and Its Indian and Tibetan Commentaries

 

 

 

P.S. here is a free PDF of Nagarjuna's Fundamentals of the Middle Way

Edited December 28, 2012 by SereneBlue

[Bubbles]

However, all your mental stuff can go on endlessly, because you obviously have no wherewithall to wake up. Your points (Bubbles, Seth Ananda, Anamatva, etc) are clear,...only those you say can be Bodhisattvas ,can be Bodhisattvas.

 

It's much simplier than that.

 

My point is the following: there is a whole tradition of practices and teachings behind and around the Heart Sutra. Thanks to them, you have had an access to this text at some point of your spiritual journey.

 

So I was just putting into some context what being a Bodhisattva entails in terms of practice and realization. Because Lao-tzu quotes, Osho's 'anyone who gives you a belief system is your enemy' etc.. veil what the high level Buddhists masters have said about it.

 

A lot of people can have some temporary glimpses of what emptiness is and be deluded about their level of realization. That's where traditions and teachers can be useful: putting things into perspective.

Edited December 28, 2012 by bubbles

[Apech]

Just a note for future discussions:

 

phenomenon is singular ... so 'phenomenon does'

phenomena is plural ...so 'phenomena do'.

 

... it means that which appears or is seen ... so saying something is a phenomenon just means it appears ... you can see it ... enquiry into its nature is to say is it real, or does it have any real essence in and of itself ... to which the Buddhist answer is it has not ... and is thus 'empty of self'. The appearance of phenomena is entirely dependent on conditions for them to appear to arise. So they do not exist in any sense independently.

 

This analytic presentation of emptiness is one thing of course while the realisation of emptiness is another. The intellectual or philosophical view of emptiness is merely a support for a profound inner realisation.

 

Just thought I'd chip in to this interesting debate.

[Bubbles]

From the point of view of the Nature of Emptiness, there is no Cause and Effect,...just Effects. A fulcrum (the Tao) does not "cause" the motion of the lever,...upon the fulcrum, the lever (duality) effects its motion.

 

You must have written this out of distraction. There is no effect without cause.

 

If you want to brush up your understanding of emptiness, read the following:

 

 

An extract of The middle way (faith grounded in reason) by H.H. Dalai Lama. Part II: an exploration of Tsongkhapa’s three principal aspects of the Path p141-144

 

Meditating on emptiness

 

9. Without the wisdom realizing the ultimate nature,even if you gain familiarity with renunciation and awakening mind,

you will not be able to cut the root of samsaric existence;

strive then in the means of realizing dependent origination.

 

We've already examined emptiness quite extensively in the chapters on Nagarjuna's Fundamental Stanzas on the Middle Way, and so we need not explore that again here at length.

In the next stanza, we find the true understanding of what emptiness means. We read that,

 

10. When with respect to all phenomena of samsara and nirvana,

you can see that causes and effects never deceive their laws;

and when you dissolve the focus of objectification,

you enter the path that pleases the buddhas.

 

If you have dissolved all appearances of true existence without vio­lating the laws of cause and effect and the world of conventional reality, then you have found the true understanding of emptiness and entered "the path that pleases the buddhas."

 

We then read:

1 1. As long as the two understandings—of appearance, which is undeceiving dependent origination, and emptiness devoid of all theses—remain separate, you will not have realized the intent of the Sage.

 

As long as your understanding of the world of appearance, or conventional reality, and your understanding of the world of empti­ness, the ultimate nature, remain at odds with each other—when they remain separate and undermine each other—you have not fully understand the intent of the Buddha.

 

 

 

 

 

Then, Tsongkhapa writes further,

 

12.

However, when, not in alternation but all at once, the instant you see that dependent origination is undeceiving,

the entire object of grasping at certainty is dismantled, then your analysis of the view has fully matured.

 

This presents the criteria for having fully understood empti­ness. When you understand emptiness in terms of dependent orig­ination and you understand dependent origination in terms of emptiness, like two sides of the same coin, when you have com­pletely negated inherent existence with no residue left behind, then your realization is complete. Normally, when we perceive things in our day-to-day experience, we see them as possessing some objective intrinsic reality, and then we follow after that appearance. But once you truly understand emptiness, then the moment you perceive a thing, that appearance itself is adequate to instantly trigger your understanding of emptiness. Instead of immediately grasping on to a thing's intrinsic reality, now you are instantly mindful that, "Yes, it appears this object is intrinsically real, but that is not so:' The appearance itself automatically induces your understanding of emptiness. When that happens, then you have completed your process of analysis.

Then in the next stanza we read:

 

13.Furthermore, when appearance dispels the extreme of existence and emptiness dispels the extreme of nonexistence, and you understand how emptiness arises as cause and effect, you will never be captivated by views grasping at extremes.

 

This stanza echoes Chandrakirti in his Entering the Middle Way (Madhyamakavatara), where he writes that, just as reflections, echoes, and so on are empty of any substantial reality and yet still appear though the meeting of conditions, phenomena—form, feeling, and so on—though devoid of intrinsic existence, arise from within emptiness with their own characteristics and identities.' The point is that emptiness itself acts like a cause for the flourishing of the world of multiplicity; all phenomena are in some sense manifesta­tions of emptiness—a kind of a play that arises from the sphere of emptiness. This stanza echoes those lines from Chandrakirti's text.

The final stanza is a conclusion, which urges the practitioner to engage in these teachings. Tsongkhapa writes:

 

I4. Once you have understood as they are the essentials of the three principal aspects of the path, O son, seek solitude, and by enhancing your powers of perseverance, swiftly accomplish your ultimate aim.

 

This has been a very brief explanation, based on the Three Prin­cipal Aspects of the Path, of how to bring all the points we discussed in the previous chapters to bear on the sphere of actual practice.

Edited December 28, 2012 by bubbles

[JustARandomPanda]

There is also this book I've had my eye on.

 

It's one of only 2 books in print (that I'm aware of) that has Nagarjuna's Fundamentals as well as discussing it in depth.

 

Nagarjuna and the Philosophy of Openess

 

 

In this innovative study of the philosopher Nagarjuna, Nancy McCagney demonstrates that the concept of space ('akasa') in early Indian Mahayana Buddhism is the root metaphor for Nagarjuna's understanding of 'sunyata', or openness. Nagarjuna's use of the term 'sunyata' was new, and contrasted with the word's use in Pali Buddhist literature. By using the word to mean 'openness,' Nagarjuna was able to elucidate, through a deeper analysis of impermanence, a consistent philosophical foundation for the truth and efficacy of Gautama's Middle Way. McCagney's book will be important for those studying Indian philosophy, Buddhism, and the philosophy of religion.

 

 

 

Interesting she translates sunyata as 'openess' rather than the more usual 'emptiness'.

[三江源]

~ moderation warning ~

 

belittling and demeaning - fest may be something people fall into along with a mince pie and a santa hat... it could be a side effect of too much turkey. Whichevers, please now withold less than civil posting and approach civil and aimiable discussion.

Anyone is subject to suspension rules, regardless of ho ho ho seasonal bhodisattvanessishness. TRUE FACT.

[GrandmasterP]

Edited December 28, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[GrandmasterP]

Just a note for future discussions:

 

phenomenon is singular ... so 'phenomenon does'

phenomena is plural ...so 'phenomena do'.

 

... it means that which appears or is seen ... so saying something is a phenomenon just means it appears ... you can see it ... enquiry into its nature is to say is it real, or does it have any real essence in and of itself ... to which the Buddhist answer is it has not ... and is thus 'empty of self'. The appearance of phenomena is entirely dependent on conditions for them to appear to arise. So they do not exist in any sense independently.

 

This analytic presentation of emptiness is one thing of course while the realisation of emptiness is another. The intellectual or philosophical view of emptiness is merely a support for a profound inner realisation.

 

Just thought I'd chip in to this interesting debate.

.........

"Bleddy poltergiest....," grumbled the cockney grandma... " it's thrown another cup and broken it! That pesky phenomenon do waste good crockery"..

.........

"Do have some more tea..." , said the medium pouring cups for the all-ghost committee members.... "I know how much a group of phenomena does love its tea".

Edited December 28, 2012 by GrandmasterP