What does 道(Tao, tao) mean chapter by chapter.....?

[ChiDragon]

There are many Chapters in the Tao Te Chine was describing Tao. Chapter 1 has a good start, what other chapters that have descriptions of Tao and would you like to quote them....???

 

Chapter 1:

1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

 

If you would like to call Tao as the "way", then what is your justification.....???

Edited January 1, 2013 by ChiDragon

[doc benway]

There are many Chapters in the Tao Te Chine was describing Tao. Chapter 1 has a good start, what other chapters that have descriptions of Tao and would you like to quote them....???

 

Chapter 1:

1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

 

If you would like to call Tao as the "way", then what is your justification.....???

I will respond to your question with another question.

What is your justification for asking others to define Dao when your very first quotation reminds us that it cannot be defined?

Edited December 27, 2012 by steve

[Harmonious Emptiness]

One of the great things about the words in the Dao De Jing is that the the sentences leading up to them often describe them before saying "this is called --."

 

A "Way" can be a route, a method, a manner in which something is done, a routine, and the list goes on. It is a fairly undefined noun, which requires a context to give it it's intended flavour, much like the word "Dao."

Edited December 27, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Marblehead]

It is my belief that "Tao" is a verb, not a noun.

 

Arthur Waley published a study titled "The Way and Its Power: A Study of the Tao Te Ching and Its Place in Chinese Thought".

 

I think that "The way and its power" is very descriptive of "Tao". But we should not, IMO, talk of Tao as if it were a thing. It is all things and all non-things. It is the way of things.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

yeah, lets just not call it either a noun nor verb and say it's fairly undefined.

[Marblehead]

yeah, lets just not call it either a noun nor verb and say it's fairly undefined.

Hehehe. Right after I made my post I had that thought - a new one for me.

[adept]

Probably a waste of time trying to define the undefinable ?

Words fail.

This question has been asked thousands of times before and turns into a quasi-intellectual ego-fest.

Best to leave some questions unanswered.

[ChiDragon]

I will respond to your question with another question.

What is your justification for asking others to define Dao when your very first quotation reminds us that it cannot be defined?

 

Very good, Steve, I like intelligent questions. You see most people fell into the trap in the first chapter which Tao is indescribable. If people really have studied the TTC, then they will know there are lots of chapters were describing what Tao is.

 

Ref.....

OP: "what other chapters that have descriptions of Tao and would you like to quote them....???"

 

 

It is my belief that "Tao" is a verb, not a noun.

 

It is a pity that you had studied the TTC for a long time and still making statement as such.....

 

 

PS...

Please remember that any statement you've made will count against or reveal how much do you know about the TTC......

Edited December 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

It is a pity that you had studied the TTC for a long time and still making statement as such.....

Hehehe. It is a pity that you, being Chinese, don't even understand your own cultural language.

 

(Yes, I did see where you stated that Tao does not equal Way.)

 

Tzujan does not follow Tao; Tao follows Tzujan. Tzujan is the Way of Tao. No, man cannot be differentiated from Tao. Man follows Earth. You already know that. And Earth follows Heaven. And, of course, Heaven follows Tao. Heaven being the rest of the physical universe exclusive of Earth.

 

So shall we state again?

[ChiDragon]

"Tzujan is the Way of Tao."

Isn't Tao was used as a noun here.

 

 

(Yes, I did see where you stated that Tao does not equal Way.)

It is because there is no way that I could do it.........

Edited December 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

Its the formless unchanging setting -scene- sequence of what may be manifest ,, rather than the ephemeral manifest itself.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Capitalization is not only a means of naming and starting sentences, but reverence as well, comparably to naming something/one/where... God, for example, in my own mind is a noun that is NOT person, place, or thing... Tao, is as though an omniversal singularity path with no surface to tread upon... (also, I got nothin')

[Marblehead]

"Tzujan is the Way of Tao."

Isn't Tao was used as a noun here.

 

 

(Yes, I did see where you stated that Tao does not equal Way.)

It is because there is no way that I could do it.........

Hehehe. Yep, that would make Tao be a noun in that sentence. And as I don't use Tao as a noun the entire sentence is null and void.

 

Yes Stosh, you have part of it but not all of it. The Tao is Dynamic. Wait, isn't that a book?

 

Nevermind.

 

To attempt to define the undefinable is a futile effort. Harmonious just spoke to that.

 

There is great validity in the words: Man follows Earth. Until man conquers space this will be true.

[ChiDragon]

Okay...we are still talking in thin air.

OP: what other chapters that have descriptions of Tao and would you like to quote them....???

How come still no one goes into the TTC to cite some descriptions for Tao......???

 

 

"a noun that is NOT person, place, or thing"

Who said a noun has to be a person, place, or thing...??? I believe the argument here was that Tao can be a noun or a verb as used in the TTC. Period.

[Marblehead]

I believe the argument here was that Tao can be a noun or a verb as used in the TTC. Period.

How many times have I said this on this board? Perhaps a dozen?

 

Okay, you know I prefer Henricks' translation of the TTC. Henricks however, translates with the word "Way" where many other translators use the word "Tao". I will take a few minutes to decide who's translation I will use to quote the word "Tao" within the translation.

 

I'll be back.

[Marblehead]

I'mmm baaaack.

 

I have decided to use Stephen Mitchell's translation. I like the way (pun intended) he uses the word "Tao".

 

Anyhow, Ch. 1 suggests that though we can talk about Tao, what we talk about is not the eternal Tao.

 

Chapter 4 then states:

 

The Tao is like a well;

...

It (The Tao) is like the eternal void;

...

It (The Tao) is hidden but always present.

...

It (The Tao) is older than God.

 

Without question "Tao" here is being used as a noun. (Unless one replaces the word "Tao" with the word "Way" but I don't know if that is possible when reading the actual Chinese characters.)

[ChiDragon]

I'mmm baaaack.

Without question "Tao" here is being used as a noun. (Unless one replaces the word "Tao" with the word "Way" but I don't know if that is possible when reading the actual Chinese characters.)

 

I can assure you that it is definitely not. I think that is where our cultural difference lies. I am glad that you are very opened-mind. It is very difficult for me to find a westerner to communicate my thoughts across. Indeed, it was very frustrating sometimes. Thank you for being patient with all my posts......

Edited December 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

How come still no one goes into the TTC to cite some descriptions for Tao......???

Maybe no one really thinks this is of interest to discuss... I think you didn't really understand what Steve pointed out.

 

If your truly interested in your original question: Look at Hinton's translation. He uses "Way" throughout his translation.

[konchog uma]

can you cite some examples of "dao" being used as a verb?

 

i cant recall any.

 

big up what steve said

[dawei]

can you cite some examples of "dao" being used as a verb?

 

i cant recall any.

 

big up what steve said

 

Section 6:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/laozi/

 

Section 3:

http://www.iep.utm.edu/laozi/

[ChiDragon]

hey.......guys

 

Please don't speak for others. Just speak for yourselves......!!!

[konchog uma]

stanford

As a verb, perhaps on account of the directionality involved, dao also conveys the sense of “speaking.” Thus, the opening phrase of chapter 1, dao ke dao, literally “Dao that can be dao-ed,” is often rendered, “The Way that can be spoken of.” Because dao is paired with “name” (ming) in the next line—“ming ke ming,” “the name that can be named”—forming a parallel couplet construction, there is thus reason to interpret the verbal usage in the sense of something verbalized, as opposed to a pathway that is travelled on, trodden, or followed. This is also how most commentators in traditional China have understood it: the many normative discourses that clamor to represent the right way are seen to be fickle, partial and misleading. In most English translations, the capitalized form—“Way” or “Dao” (or “Tao”)—is used, to distinguish it from other usages of the term.

 

internet encyclopedia of philosophy

The term Dao means a road, and is often translated as “the Way”. This is because sometimes dao is used as a nominative (that is, “the dao”) and other times as a verb (i.e. daoing). Dao is the process of reality itself, the way things come together, while still transforming. All this reflects the deep seated Chinese belief that change is the most basic character of things. In the Yi jing (Classic of Change) the patterns of this change are symbolized by figures standing for 64 relations of correlative forces and known as the hexagrams. Dao is the alteration of these forces, most often simply stated as yin and yang.

 

just for everyone who doesnt feel like digging.. helpful, thanks dawei

[ChiDragon]

Maybe no one really thinks this is of interest to discuss... I think you didn't really understand what Steve pointed out.

 

If your truly interested in your original question: Look at Hinton's translation. He uses "Way" throughout his translation.

 

You are not really responding to the OP. If you really understand, you probably would have followed Marblehead's trail.

Edited December 28, 2012 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

It is a tricky balance here at times... It is not about 'speaking for others' but letting others speak... Acceptance of others view, whether member or quote.

 

I tend to want to help others find their path instead of dictating the path they must take... I understand and accept that others want everyone to accept their way as the proper way. I hope each can find assistance and not insistence.

 

 

@Anamatva: Your right... would of been better to quote something... what if the link breaks in the future? Thanks in return

[dawei]

You are not really responding to the OP. If you really understand, you probably follow Marblehead's trail.

You are assuming no one can cite the TTC simply because of no responses?

 

You completely mis-understood Steve's counter-post... But it seems others understood it. Expand your thinking when you get no response. What you ask is fairly nonsensical to not deserve direct response... at least for me. I told you to read Hinton. It is that easy.