What's up with the illuminati?

[GrandmasterP]

They were hiring.

[ShenLung]

Conspiricies ... the first thing to know about them is that not everything is a conspiricy. Simple greed and incompetance compose most of what is thought to be a conspiricy. If non-powerful people can conspire and do better, the powerful

could certainly do far better still. This I do not see too much evidence of.

 

The second thing is that there is not one, great conspiricy; there are a multitude of conspiricies .. people enter into them all the time, both low and high. Persons and institutions do form alliances from differing conspiracies, but this is not a unity of purpose; lust for wealth and coveting power lead this type to reach for more.

 

Thirdly, there are individuals of a certain ideological bend who would like to establish a world government - conquering the world has been a fond dream for many for as long as there have been dreamers. The character flaw inherent in the type may allow them to collaborate briefly, but since the desires of their hearts are based in selfish pursuit, they will never hold together for long. Building a tower to reach the heavens requires steel and stone, not sand and rotted wood.

 

Finally, when standing beside the switch, the current in the lines desperately wants to complete the circuit, to flow through the filament and bring illumination. By closing the circuit, one does indeed 'let' there be light.

[Taomeow]

Conspiracy fiction, all.

As opposed to coincidence fact... Take any two suspicious facts, there's never any connection between them, only coincidences. Take any two billion suspicious facts, same deal. No one ever talks to anyone else to arrange for to make things happen, they always just happen. No one ever hides anything, everything that happens is always out in the open, especially when we are ruled -- why, there's total and absolute transparency, the rulers never have anything to hide! They are the rulers, how can they have anything but your best interest as their goal?..

 

...and here's how the world is really ruled:

 

 

Fact (makers of the fact are here)

.

.

Lie (they tell)..................................................................Truth (they know)

.

.

lie1.......(you are here)...........lie2

.

.

lie1a......lie2a....(you are here)....lie1b......lie2b

.

.

lie1a(a).............lie1b ..........lie2a(a).....(you are here).......lie2a

 

and so on, from the top of the pyramid to the ever-widening base.

 

They never position you between the Lie and the Truth. They offer only the Lie to the public, and if anyone gets suspicious, why they can dig deeper -- Lie is conveniently split for them into Lie#1 and Lie#2, make your free choice! They position you in between these, to argue ad nauseam. And if you break away from both, realizing that both lies are lies, you are offered what -- the truth? -- no, the truth is set aside for the makers of the fact, remember? -- you are offered a further fragmentation of one of the lies you have chosen into more alternative lies to choose from. Ad infinitum.

 

So if you say "there's no conspiracies," you've merely chosen the basic Lie1a©, is all.

 

If you say "Icke tells nothing but the truth, " that's your Lie76(33)(f).

 

And so on.

 

The world is arranged just so -- and you better remember it and you better believe it -- that if you are not the maker of the fact with irrefutable and detailed proof of having made a free choice instead of having been zapped into doing or not doing stuff -- you can be 100% sure you are nowhere near the truth no matter what you believe or disbelieve. Not in the same universe with it.

[Protector]

I'm immune to them commercials, I haven't seen one in months/years (some pop up accidentally from place to place)

And I kinda expected The Occult forum to have more freemason stuff, in The Lost Symbol by Dan Brown they seemed cool

 

 

this message is brought to you by Horse Stance^tm

[Birch]

Watch GranP's video. It didn't seem very cool to me. Bit of a pompous bloke, I found (and don't forget your chance to purchase the whatever it was in the online gift store).

The masons are also sexist. I think I mentioned that elsewhere:-)

[Protector]

They kinda are but there's a women only lodge somewhere, forgot what it's called

[Birch]

Whoop de doo:-) Nope, they said a person has to believe in a higher being. Not joining:-)

[Protector]

[GrandmasterP]

Watch GranP's video. It didn't seem very cool to me. Bit of a pompous bloke, I found (and don't forget your chance to purchase the whatever it was in the online gift store).

The masons are also sexist. I think I mentioned that elsewhere:-)

.......

Not all Masons are sexist.

http://comasonic.net/

My aunty Edna (married Arthur Wagner a GI and went to live with him on Long Island after the war. Admiral Avenue they lived I expect you guys in the USA moms n dads knew them) became a big shout in the Co Masons.

Edited December 28, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Aetherous]

After researching Freemasonry (from an outside perspective) for a few years, more intensely than the average person...I have to say that I really don't understand why it exists.

 

lol!

 

Some of the things sound great....brotherhood, relief, truth. Awesome. Symbolism...okay there is something cool about that.

 

But I just don't understand why I'd want to join. These ideals don't need a secretive group with a bunch of nonsense rituals.

 

Illuminati? Well I think factions exist, some good, some bad, some who just use the name...some who only appear to exist.

Edited December 29, 2012 by turtle shell

[abandonhope]

Their is no such thing as illuminati. There are elites that control everything. The Federal Reserve controls the money, which controls the politicians, and media. The politicians help the banks with their agendas, such as starting nonsense wars.

[GrandmasterP]

One of the advantages of belonging to a fraternal order was that in the old days men who travelled for a living such as actors and trade representatives could pitch up in a new town look up the local lodge, turn up there having given the passwords on the door and immediately be amongst chums who could advise on the best digs to put up in etc.

It was the same in the services, someone posted to a new garrison and not knowing anyone could go to the lodge and immediately be amongst like minded people.

There was a big Masonic following in the Metropolitan Police (Greater London ) still an unusual police force demographically in that most of its officers come from elsewhere in the country and single officers live in barrack like 'section houses'.

Also the Met attracted a lot of Scottish officers and the Scottish lodges being more democratic or blue collar than the English ones hence the Metropolitan Police Lodges were similar in makeup to Buffalo (Poor Man's Masons) lodges elsewhere in England, in that there were fewer 'toffs'.

In the army the officers would be Masons whilst the other ranks tended towards Buffaloism.

One posh army officer once dismissed the very elegant Grand Lodge Buffalo Building in Harrogate as " A civilian version of the sergeants mess".

I don't know about the Masons but the RAOB (Buffaloes) peaked for members in the 70s and has been in steep decline ever since. In this Province there are only four lodges still just about in existence , and they struggle to keep going; down from more than 150 lodges in the 1970s.

The RAOB shares its heritage with the fraternal order of 'Elks' in the USA.

Edited December 29, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[zanshin]

They kinda are but there's a women only lodge somewhere, forgot what it's called

 

Eastern Star is US, in my understanding mostly a group for spouses and family members of the male group.

[GrandmasterP]

Had a look up that Co Mason Eastern Order , here in England it's very small and they meet in Theosophical Halls they also have links on their site to Theosophical sites so it's possibly an offshoot of that.

[eye_of_the_storm]

[eye_of_the_storm]

From then to now nothing has changed...

[Protector]

What's up with that airplane food? Am I rite?

[GrandmasterP]

 

Caption....

 

Mr Jesus: "You stay offa my turf. I run the rackets in this here Temple now!"

Moneychanger: "ouch! Not the face I beg you Capo, NOT the face".

[eye_of_the_storm]

 

JC as revolutionary reformer

Edited January 1, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

The Evil of Usury

 

The extraction of usury is "one of the oldest professions of man." (Forrest M. Smith, III, The Regulation of Interest: Practice and Procedure, 10 ST. MARY'S L. REV. 825, 1979). First came the Temple Priests, then the Goldsmiths and the commercial bankers of today. The first use of the fractional reserve system was in the Temple of Shamash under Hammurabi -- the sixth king of Babylon (Peter Cook, FEDERAL RESERVE FRACTIONAL RESERVE AND INTEREST-FREE GOVERNMENT CREDIT EXPLAINED 4, 1991).

 

The ecclesiastical doctrine of interest was the greatest obstacle to modern banking. It was primarily based upon 1) Aristotle's condemnation of interest as an unnatural breeding of money by money, 2) Christ's (supposed) condemnation of interest (Luke 6:34) and the reaction of the Fathers of the Church against commercialism and usury in Rome. (Will Durant, THE AGE OF FAITH 630, 1950).

 

The moral condemnation of this ancient practice has been summarized: "It comes as news to most people to learn that practically all important ethical teachers -- Moses, Aristotle, Jesus, Mohammed, and Saint Thomas Aquinas, for instance -- have denounced lending at interest as usury and as morally wrong" (Lawrence Dennis, "The Squirrel Cage of Debt," Saturday Review of Literature 661, June 24, 1933).

 

Usury has been condemned since biblical times. (George Braden, II THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF TEXAS: AN ANNOTATED AND COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS 729, 1977). It was originally considered usurious to make any charge for the use of money. Id. Originally the word interest had the same essential meaning as usury. Smith, III, p. 826. The word "usury" used to mean any interest. It came to mean interest that exceeds the rate established by law (Ken Warner, GIVE US A KING 120-121, 1988).

 

Interest comes from the Latin verb "intereo" meaning to be lost. F.W. Maisel at 141, The ancient Israelites called usury "a bite." It is like the slow poison of a serpent: "Usury does not all at once destroy a man or nation with, as it were, a bloody gulp. Rather, it slowly, sometimes nearly imperceptibly, subverts the victim's constitution until he cannot prevent the fatal consequences even though he knows what is coming." Mooney, p. 23. The practice of lending to an enemy was "as a means of destroying him" (Jno. H. Kimmons, Usury: What Is It, and Does the Law of God Forbid It? 163, Undated).

 

The Old Testament "classes the usurer with the shedder of blood, the defiler of his neighbor's wife, the oppressor of the poor, the spoiler by violence, the violator of the pledge, the idolater, and pronounces the woe upon them, that they who commit these iniquities shall surely die." Id. at 2. The usurer was put in the same category with extortioners, Sabbath-breakers, those who vex the fatherless and widows, dishonor parents and accept bribes (Ezekiel 22). Id. at 17. The usurer was also classed with the liar, the unrighteous, the backbiter, the slanderer and perjurer, and denied the right to inherit the New Jerusalem (Psalm 15). Id. The usurer is further classed with the meanest and lowest of men and the vilest of criminals (Ezekiel 18). Id.

 

Before the Babylonian captivity, Ezekiel denounced the practice of usury as a great evil and mentioned the practice of oppressing strangers as part of the great wickedness. Id. at 9. Interest repayments on loans, even to resident strangers was forbidden in the year of Jubilee (Leviticus 25:35-37) whereas in regular years it was permissible to charge interest to strangers (Deuteronomy 23:19-20). Id. at 3.

 

Zechariah forbade "the oppression of the stranger, classing it with oppression of the widow, the fatherless and the poor..." Id. at 9. Malachi "enjoins regard for the stranger's rights." Id.

 

Nehemiah, after the captivity, boldly denounced usury (Nehemiah 5:9-11), instituted a reform and had retribution made for all usurious holdings. Id. Those who can abide in the Tabernacle or dwell in the holy hill include (Psalm 15:1): "He that putteth not out his money to usury." Id. at 9.

 

Solomon gave us the proverb, "the borrower is servant to the lender." Id. at 15.

 

The New Testament continued the prohibition of usury: "In the fullness of time the Messiah came, and no part of the moral law was abrogated. The prohibition of usury as to the Jew was extended, to include mankind, and the permit as to the stranger was declared inoperative and void. The Jew was taught to sympathize with strangers remembering that they were once strangers in Egypt." Id. at 9-10.

 

Jesus taught (Luke 6:34-35) "love ye your enemies, and do good and lend, hoping for nothing again." Id. at 10. Usury was the basis for Jesus's calling the money changers thieves: "The commerce of the world is conducted on principles as much at variance with the teachings of the master, as are the practices of a sneak thief or burglar. So the Master taught, as with whip of cords, he indignantly drove its representatives, from the sacred precincts of the Temple, denouncing them as thieves. Every well-informed mind knows that the money changers in the Temple, on that startling occasion, were at the very center of the Jewish Banking system, and of the pitiless and grinding commerce of Palestine." Id. at 19.

 

In Jesus' parable on the subject of usury (Matthew 25:26-27; Luke 19:22-23) "only the hard, austere man, one whose conscience will not interfere with his reaping where he has not sown, and taking up where he has not laid down, would extract usury, for he makes the lord of the parable tell the servant of it: You say I am a hard and austere man, then why did you not act accordingly, and earn me my usury as my nature demanded?" Id. at 3.

 

Assuming there is a stranger exception, "where is the authority for the practice of usury on our brethren?" Id. at 3. The taking of interest is "subversive of the principles of a sound state policy, contrary to good morals, and opposed to the teaching of God's Word." Id. at 10. The meaning of "usury" has been changed "to mean exhorbitant interest.

 

The Apostle Peter publicly told his vision: "And in another lake, full or pitch and blood and more bubbling up, there stood men and women on their knees: and these were usurers and those who had taken interest. . ." Antinicene Fathers, Vol. IX, p. 146. The Apostle Paul, in telling his vision, said: "And I saw another multitude of men and women, and worms consumed them. But I lamented and sighing asked the angel and said, 'Who are these?' And he said to me: These are those who exacted interest ON interest, and trusted in their riches and did not hope in God that He was their helper." Antinicene Fathers, Vol. IX, p. 160.

 

A long-existing and self-perpetuating tax-immune internationalist-transnationalist group uses fronts with inter-locking corporate and or fraternal group of individuals, whose membership is either secret or semi-secret, with undisclosed ownership shares, has usurped the sovereignty of borrowing national governments (who serve their lenders). It includes largely unrevealed yet reported campaign contributors who also control the media and press, all major political parties, and dictates presidential appointments. It abhors the direct issuance of money by elected officials and through the creation of a system of privately-owned and controlled central banks, holds all of the world's gold and all loan and mortgage paperwork.

 

Its business is conducted in secret meetings which determine the future of all national economies and the timing of expansion (through loans) or contraction (through no loans). It exercises an exclusive monopoly of the issuance of money created out of thin air and issued solely as debt, does not create money to repay the interest, and lives off perpetual national debts that consume future income and under international law cannot be repudiated even by an internal political revolution. At least for others, it tends to be pro-bureaucracy, pro-abortion/population control, pro-government education, anti-family, anti-nationalist, anti-inheritance, anti-private property and anti-Jesus Christ. This group can demand special privileges and even military force to collect "national" debts.

 

It plans to soon accomplish global disarmament (of both civilians and nations) and have a monopoly on force (including nuclear weapons). It has the privilege of a guaranteed untaxable income enforced by liens on all public and personal property and collected by the coercive force of the taxing structure of the various governments. The basis for its continued existence is continued usury and unforgiving collection of all debts resulting from committing the highest crime of usury.

 

http://www.biblebeli...g.au/usury2.htm

Edited January 2, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[GrandmasterP]

Mortgages on homes are a total rip off.

First house I bought cost £23,000 but if I'd paid the mortgage over the full 25-years I'd have shelled out more than four times that to the building society (latterly a bank).

Islam gets by pretty well without usury, there's a branch of an international Islamic Bank in Leicester, the city closest to us; they make business loans and such but at very fair rates I've been told.

[Jetsun]

It seems to me from history that the Illuminati and Masons are more likely to be on the side of progress and enlightenment than many other forces like the Church. The Masons were responsible for things like the French Revolution and founding of the United States including critical foundations such as seperating Church and state, aiming for liberty, education and knowledge freed from the tyranny of backward monarchs and regressive Church. Maybe they haven't been so nice recently but historically they don't look so bad.

[GrandmasterP]

Anything , like the Masons; that the Roman Catholic Church specifically bans has to be OK in my books.

[GrandmasterP]

Just briefly back to usury, there's a short term loan company advertising on here for iPad UK locations.

Loans from "ONLY" (!!!!) 55.9% APR.

[Aetherous]

It seems to me from history that the Illuminati and Masons are more likely to be on the side of progress and enlightenment than many other forces like the Church. The Masons were responsible for things like the French Revolution and founding of the United States including critical foundations such as seperating Church and state, aiming for liberty, education and knowledge freed from the tyranny of backward monarchs and regressive Church. Maybe they haven't been so nice recently but historically they don't look so bad.

 

Back then they were cool...they met at pubs! These days, I don't think you're able to discuss politics or religion in a lodge. Against the rules. But maybe that doesn't apply everywhere?