The Way (道 i.e.Tao) of Living

[thelerner]

name='sree' timestamp='1357062985' post='389175']

"Ok, you more or less see Lennon’s goal the same way as Marblehead: it works only for the individual because there are too many people doing their own things. Granted, forcing others to do your thing is not your Way (道 i.e.Tao). Well, I don’t think that is the Way of the Tao Te Ching either.

 

What about a society of one, namely, you? Think about it. You said Lennon’s goal is realistic for an individual. Is this a half-assed belief or did you examine Lennon’s manifesto seriously and came up with the realization that it is not a silly ditty by a pot-head but practicable and actionable wisdom?

Is John Lennon's dream practicable and consistent with the teaching of the Tao Te Ching?"

 

 

You ask a lot of questions. Is John Lennons dream practical? No, if you give up your possessions right now. You'd have problems, so would I. I like my stuff. Thinking everyone else will give up theres is to coin your phrase pot headed. Governments have tried it, it usually ends as an economic and moral disaster. Is his song consistent w/ Tao Te Ching.. Uh, ones a deep philosophy hitting dozens of areas, the other is a short ditty ode to communism, they're in such different realms its hard to say. Do you learn about the TTC from the song? Not really, so I'd say no.

 

Did he believe it? Obviously not, since he didn't do it or live by it. I like Lennon. Strangely I read a book decades ago about hippies living on the rumor that Lennon was going to buy an island and found a utopia. They believed it, didn't happen. Old book, Season of the Witch maybe.

[sree]

Yes, I would agree that that is the right thing. And as we are, in the most part, social animals, we will continue to establish societies and try to work together. We (the human race) are really not doing all that bad a job. Sure, it could be better but it could also be a whole lot worse.

 

 

So, this messed up human existence is the Way (道 i.e.Tao) of living of Mankind. This is it! It is our Way: the free market. Just make sure you are on the right side of the trade and the other guy is on the wrong side of your gun. There is nothing good or bad about human nature, it is our Way. Is this why the Tao Te Ching teaches non-interference?

 

On Christmas Eve, last week, I drove a friend to the Post Office. She went in and I sat in my SUV parked outside with the engine running. It was real cold that morning. A guy in a motorized wheelchair moved up and down the sidewalk asking for goodwill from folks going in and coming out of the Post Office. He wheeled up to me looking at me through the closed window of my car. I looked at him as he started to talk to me. As the window was closed, I couldn’t hear a word but I knew, and he knew I knew, what he was communicating: probably something like God bless you, Christmas is here, goodwill to all men and how about giving a poor guy some money. I looked away and ignored his plea. I could sense that he was still talking to me, for several seconds, but I didn’t look. Suddenly, he bellowed “asshole!!” and it penetrated the glass window hitting me like a powerful shotblast from an RPG. He wheeled away back to the entrance of the Post Office.

 

Is that the Way (道 i.e.Tao) of living?

 

 

I have no problem with bluntness as long as it is honest.

 

Actually, the Buddhist is a woman. The Vietnamese lady friend I have spoken of before. In fact, she and I just went out for pizza this afternoon.

 

 

Who paid?

 

All three of us have spoken about death and we have no problem with knowing that we all will soon die as, as I said, we all are about the same age. My lady friend, when I first met here, had a hard time talking about death but she now handles talkingt about it very well now.

 

 

You guys first met here? What is “here”?

 

We would likely accept others into our group with open arms if they were as open-minded as we are. But no, we are not looking to enlarge our group.

 

 

It would be tough to get into your group. By now, the relationship among you three would have become quite comfortable and nothing casual. Only a small dog or a cat can make that foursome. This is because we all love animals but can't stand people.

 

I feel comfortable with saying that regardless of our religion/philosophy we are realists We know that life is just temporary. (But my lady friend get to reincarnate and my guy friend get to go to heaven. I get to fertilize the roses.

 

 

Life is temporary? You mean we are like Jehovah’s witnesses having a look around and then check out? The thing that troubles me is why is everybody so realistic about getting a raw deal? Mr Chi is realistic about that calf getting chewed up by the lion and you are resigned to getting executed like guys – who have exhausted the appeal process - in death row.

 

I think the idea of death is mind-blowing. You can think about it but I don’t believe that you can ever experience it.

[sree]

name='sree' timestamp='1357062985' post='389175']

You ask a lot of questions. Is John Lennons dream practical? No, if you give up your possessions right now. You'd have problems, so would I. I like my stuff. Thinking everyone else will give up theres is to coin your phrase pot headed.

 

 

I like my stuff too because they are hard-to-get goods. Are your stuff hard-to-get goods also? The Tao Te Ching warned against this (不贵难得之货) in Chapter 3. It says that not having possessions will avoid stealing. What are the problems if we don’t have possessions? Obama doesn’t have to own Air Force One but he can use it.

 

Governments have tried it, it usually ends as an economic and moral disaster.

 

 

Perhaps, governments have tried it wrong: poor execution. Is it fair to discredit Communism because the Russians and the Chinese messed up?

 

Is his song consistent w/ Tao Te Ching.. Uh, ones a deep philosophy hitting dozens of areas, the other is a short ditty ode to communism, they're in such different realms its hard to say. Do you learn about the TTC from the song? Not really, so I'd say no.

 

 

I didn’t learn the Tao Te Ching from “Imagine” but that song was Lennon’s Way (道 i.e.Tao). I thought it may be worth checking out because it defines the popular ideology of western socialism that has overtaken America today. It looks like the American Way (道 i.e.Tao) of the future.

 

Did he believe it? Obviously not, since he didn't do it or live by it. I like Lennon. Strangely I read a book decades ago about hippies living on the rumor that Lennon was going to buy an island and found a utopia. They believed it, didn't happen. Old book, Season of the Witch maybe.

 

Ok, you like the guy and he was a fraud. Women like cads also. I find this strange. In China, if a guy is a crook, you stay away from him. Confucius taught that you are not different from the folks you like or hang out with. You know that western saying, birds of a feather, flock together?

Edited January 2, 2013 by sree

[ChiDragon]

(不贵难得之货) in Chapter 3. It says that not having possessions will avoid stealing.

 

It should read as: Do not value(no desire for) the hard-to-get-goods will avoid stealing.

[sree]

sree........

Did you have Chapter 80 in mind.....???

 

Mr Chi, I have reflected on this Chapter 80 as I listened to the Cantonese recitation over and over.

It made me laugh to think of Marblehead's being adamant about the ability of the western mind at grasping Chinese concepts. Shame on Dawei for insisting that translating Chinese is no big deal. Line 12 - even your translation doesn't come near to the real thing - made me laugh the loudest. Chapter 80 invokes such wistful scenarios of the Chinese way of life.

 

12.雞犬之聲相聞,

12. Hearing the sounds of chickens and dogs of each other,

 

Anyway, westernization of the world is the trend as we strive for economic well-being in every country. Urbanization and mass migration to mega-cities characterize the Way (道 i.e.Tao) of modern life. Chapter 80 seems to point the other way.

 

There are 7 billion people on the planet and counting. China has to deal with 25 million more people each year joining the labor market. God knows how many more millions India, without the one-child policy, is spitting out. And every mouth is crying for food. The only way out is westernization: mass-production and globalization. No more small countries with few people.

 

Mr Chi, does the Tao Te Ching hold the answer for today's world or is it no longer relevant? Does it have a meaningful guiding philosophy like Sun Tzu's Art of War for modern business application and warcraft?

[sree]

(不贵难得之货) in Chapter 3. It says that not having possessions will avoid stealing.

 

It should read as: Do not value(no desire for) the hard-to-get-goods will avoid stealing.

 

Are you implying that Chapter 3 is meant for the thief?

[ChiDragon]

No, if people do not value for hard-to-get-goods, then they have no desire to obtain them by dealing. Indeed, there will be no thief in the world.

Edited January 2, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

So, this messed up human existence is the Way (道 i.e.Tao) of living of Mankind. This is it! It is our Way: the free market. Just make sure you are on the right side of the trade and the other guy is on the wrong side of your gun. There is nothing good or bad about human nature, it is our Way. Is this why the Tao Te Ching teaches non-interference?

 

Yes, the way of man. All too often not the Way of Tao nor even the way of nature. But we are what we are. Of course, Lao Tzu suggests that our way should be more like the Way of Tao. Some of us try and some of us don't.

 

On Christmas Eve, last week, I drove a friend to the Post Office. She went in and I sat in my SUV parked outside with the engine running. It was real cold that morning. A guy in a motorized wheelchair moved up and down the sidewalk asking for goodwill from folks going in and coming out of the Post Office. He wheeled up to me looking at me through the closed window of my car. I looked at him as he started to talk to me. As the window was closed, I couldn’t hear a word but I knew, and he knew I knew, what he was communicating: probably something like God bless you, Christmas is here, goodwill to all men and how about giving a poor guy some money. I looked away and ignored his plea. I could sense that he was still talking to me, for several seconds, but I didn’t look. Suddenly, he bellowed “asshole!!” and it penetrated the glass window hitting me like a powerful shotblast from an RPG. He wheeled away back to the entrance of the Post Office.

 

I have no idea what I would have done. I give to selected charity organizations. I don't normally give out in the streets. Anyone needing help can go to one of the organizations I support.

 

Is that the Way (道 i.e.Tao) of living?

 

You know I can't answer that.

 

Who paid?

 

She did. It was her turn. We take turns paying but I always drive as she isn't able to drive. (I try to cheat her and tell her it is my turn when it is really her turn. I get more retirement than she does so I can afford it.)

 

You guys first met here? What is “here”?

 

That was a typo. It should have been her.

 

It would be tough to get into your group. By now, the relationship among you three would have become quite comfortable and nothing casual. Only a small dog or a cat can make that foursome. This is because we all love animals but can't stand people.

 

You may well be right.

 

Life is temporary? You mean we are like Jehovah’s witnesses having a look around and then check out? The thing that troubles me is why is everybody so realistic about getting a raw deal? Mr Chi is realistic about that calf getting chewed up by the lion and you are resigned to getting executed like guys – who have exhausted the appeal process - in death row.

 

We may differ here. Remember, I am an Atheist and a Materialist. We are born, we live, then we die. The cycle is complete.

 

I think the idea of death is mind-blowing. You can think about it but I don’t believe that you can ever experience it.

 

Hehehe. Yeah, on the other side we say, "Hey, so that's what death is all about. Kinda' neat." If we ever know we won't know until after it happens if knowing is still a possibility after death. I don't believe it is.

[Marblehead]

(不贵难得之货) in Chapter 3. It says that not having possessions will avoid stealing.

 

It should read as: Do not value(no desire for) the hard-to-get-goods will avoid stealing.

Agree. However, I wonder if stealig would even stop then. My impression is that it would not.

[sree]

We may differ here. Remember, I am an Atheist and a Materialist. We are born, we live, then we die. The cycle is complete.

 

That cycle may be complete for the body. What about you? And I don't mean Marblehead (or whatever), the person you are masquerading as far as you can remember. Do you believe that you are a consciousness generated by the brain and when it checks out, it switches the consciousness off and you disappear like a movie show while the other two movies (your Christian and Buddhist friends) play on in the cineplex?

 

Hehehe. Yeah, on the other side we say, "Hey, so that's what death is all about. Kinda' neat." If we ever know we won't know until after it happens if knowing is still a possibility after death. I don't believe it is.

 

The point is, there is no other side. If you were to fall asleep, there is the other side when you wake up and check the clock to see how long you had slept. In the case of death, there is no "after it happens" for you.

 

Since you are a materialist with no sentimental hang-ups, what do you say to a practical way to end it? The body is like a can of corned beef with a sell-by date. After the sell-by date, the contents in the can starts to gradually deteriorate until it becomes rotten. Similarly, after the sell-by date, the body's physiology loses integrity at the onset of old age and gradually weakens.

 

Do you think it is sensible to shut the body down at it's sell-by date before the onset of old-age to avoid the unnecessary medical expenses and, more importantly, the misery of physical illness and mental anxiety? A man still looks good and fit at 70 if he lives an active and healthy life. That's a good sell-by date. Naturally, if you don't junk the can of corned beef then, so to speak, and wait for the contents to get rotten, all the horrible stuff is likely to start happening to the body until the guy keels over at 85. Checking out at the sell-by date, instead of the rotten date, seems like the Way (道 i.e.Tao).

 

What do you say? I am thinking about this for myself even though my sell-by date is still a long way off. The idea of having a nice farewell dinner with family and friends, after taking care of all matters, before checking out instead of an untimely macabre wake and funeral, sounds right. Do you see anything wrong?

Edited January 3, 2013 by sree

[OnPhourCoughee]

"John Lennon sang about peace. Well he's got it now".

(Bernard Manning)

 

Wouldn't a Taoist .lifestyle be whatever lifestyle a Taoist chose to lead?

Dio.

[OnPhourCoughee]

The most Taoist thing said in this thread.

Remember, I am an Atheist and a Materialist. We are born, we live, then we die. The cycle is complete. 'Marblehead'

[Marblehead]

That cycle may be complete for the body. What about you? And I don't mean Marblehead (or whatever), the person you are masquerading as far as you can remember. Do you believe that you are a consciousness generated by the brain and when it checks out, it switches the consciousness off and you disappear like a movie show while the other two movies (your Christian and Buddhist friends) play on in the cineplex?

 

I believe that there is no consciousness outside of a functioning brain. When my body dies my brain will die as well. Actually, the term "brain dead" is the end of the cycle. Sure the medical industry can keep the body alive after brain death but what kind of a live would that be? When I die it is because my camera ran out of film. No film? No more pictures.

 

The point is, there is no other side. If you were to fall asleep, there is the other side when you wake up and check the clock to see how long you had slept. In the case of death, there is no "after it happens" for you.

 

Exactly. No more dreams. No more butterflies.

 

Since you are a materialist with no sentimental hang-ups, what do you say to a practical way to end it? The body is like a can of corned beef with a sell-by date. After the sell-by date, the contents in the can starts to gradually deteriorate until it becomes rotten. Similarly, after the sell-by date, the body's physiology loses integrity at the onset of old age and gradually weakens.

 

Hehehe. Take it easy on me. I do get sentimental now and again.

 

Chuang Tzu spoke very well to this and I totally agree with his views. It was Tao that allowed for me to exist - it is only Tao that has the option of terminating my existence.

 

Do you think it is sensible to shut the body down at it's sell-by date before the onset of old-age to avoid the unnecessary medical expenses and, more importantly, the misery of physical illness and mental anxiety? A man still looks good and fit at 70 if he lives an active and healthy life. That's a good sell-by date. Naturally, if you don't junk the can of corned beef then, so to speak, and wait for the contents to get rotten, all the horrible stuff is likely to start happening to the body until the guy keels over at 85. Checking out at the sell-by date, instead of the rotten date, seems like the Way (道 i.e.Tao).

 

No, no early shut-down. Early retirement, yes. Allow nature to take its course. Don't try to force things. Forcing things is not the Way of Tao.

 

Sure, if we are fortunate we will get old and feeble. Nothing wrong with that. Sure, living long brings with it the pains of old age. This is why I discriminate between pain and suffering. Just because we have a few pains doesn't mean we can't enjoy life anymore. Stop suffering and live until you die.

 

And remember, I suggest that we cannot foretell the future. We never know when our pull-date is. Some die while they are still in childhood and others die as centurians.

 

What do you say? I am thinking about this for myself even though my sell-by date is still a long way off. The idea of having a nice farewell dinner with family and friends, after taking care of all matters, before checking out instead of an untimely macabre wake and funeral, sounds right. Do you see anything wrong?

 

Nope. I can't agree with that. I have a living will that states I wish to be cremated. After I die I doubt I will know whether I was left laying on the ground to rot and eaten by the ants and bugs, buried to be eaten by the worms and maggots, or burned with my ashes polluting the skies.

 

Yes, friends (if it includes family then good) should have get-togethers often. Who knows when one of the group wil die? And don't forget to say "I love you." if it is a true statement.

[Marblehead]

The most Taoist thing said in this thread.

Remember, I am an Atheist and a Materialist. We are born, we live, then we die. The cycle is complete. 'Marblehead'

Thanks.

 

Now I feel a burden to say more Taoist things. Hehehe. Just kidding.

[sree]

I believe that there is no consciousness outside of a functioning brain. When my body dies my brain will die as well. Actually, the term "brain dead" is the end of the cycle. Sure the medical industry can keep the body alive after brain death but what kind of a live would that be? When I die it is because my camera ran out of film. No film? No more pictures.

 

 

Do you realize that your belief – no consciousness outside the brain – was formulated when consciousness was looking at the brain and concluded that it came out from the brain? How about this belief that Chi flows with your breath through your nose to light up consciousness which cuts out when breathing stops?

 

Hehehe. Take it easy on me. I do get sentimental now and again.

 

I know. Materialism is just an ideology. You can only fake it just so far. It’s the same with Buddhism.

 

Chuang Tzu spoke very well to this and I totally agree with his views. It was Tao that allowed for me to exist - it is only Tao that has the option of terminating my existence.

 

That’s precisely my point. When you are one with the Way (道 i.e.Tao) you can exercise that option and terminate for the common good.

 

No, no early shut-down. Early retirement, yes. Allow nature to take its course. Don't try to force things. Forcing things is not the Way of Tao.

 

 

Who said anything about forcing? I am talking about the Way (道 i.e.Tao) of living. Old age is not natural and not different from living on artificial life-support. Have you seen any old antelope stricken with arthritis stumbling along trying to keep up with the herd prancing away from the cheetahs? Old age is unnatural. It is infirmity, the price we pay for the fear of death.

 

Sure, if we are fortunate we will get old and feeble. Nothing wrong with that. Sure, living long brings with it the pains of old age. This is why I discriminate between pain and suffering. Just because we have a few pains doesn't mean we can't enjoy life anymore. Stop suffering and live until you die.

 

You reckon that it is good fortune to get old and feeble? There is everything wrong with it like osteoporosis, macular degeneration, shingles, dental bone loss, slow reflex, hearing impairment, short-term memory, poor sense of balance ...and I am not even talking about any of the bad stuff. They all contribute to a diminished quality of life. Why even put up with the pains of old age if you don’t have to? Are you afraid of breaking the Seventh Commandment: Thou shalt not kill?

 

And remember, I suggest that we cannot foretell the future. We never know when our pull-date is. Some die while they are still in childhood and others die as centurians.

 

 

I am not talking about death as a fact of life. I am talking about timely termination of the body the way we take a strike jet fighter out of commission before it becomes a liability to the strike force. There are no weak lions in the pride.

 

Nope. I can't agree with that. I have a living will that states I wish to be cremated. After I die I doubt I will know whether I was left laying on the ground to rot and eaten by the ants and bugs, buried to be eaten by the worms and maggots, or burned with my ashes polluting the skies.

 

 

I wonder why you won’t agree with reason. A materialist would at least be materialistic. Your concern about the body’s mode of disposal is a lot of fuss about nothing. You said we should be honest. I wonder if you are being honest with yourself.

 

Yes, friends (if it includes family then good) should have get-togethers often. Who knows when one of the group wil die? And don't forget to say "I love you." if it is a true statement.

 

 

Love? Now, you are being sentimental. The Way (道 i.e.Tao) is impartial, says Chapter 5. Even a western materialist will find Chinese philosophy tough shit. Perhaps, deep down you are a mushy Christian.

 

(Not many in this forum can stomach this kind of discussion. Not even a heartless Chinese immortal. Stay down, don't reply if you want to end it.)

Edited January 3, 2013 by sree

[thelerner]

A few minutes ago a future me suddenly appeared and said I was going to get involved in silly circular posting to no purpose. I shot the time traveler, but took his message to heart.

 

clap clap Michael out.

Edited January 4, 2013 by thelerner

[sree]

You're kind of hard on Lennon calling him a fraud. He wrote songs- good ones. He was great singer and song writer. If you try to turn him into Lau Tzu you're off base. He admired the ideas in that song, he admired the lyrics in his love songs too. Sometimes a song is just a song, poem to music. Every song does not have to be personal manifesto.

 

'Imagine' was written 4 decades ago('1971'). I can't recall the last time I heard it on the radio and I listen to the oldies station. I think you're mistaken if you think it 'it defines the popular ideology of western socialism that has overtaken America today'. It may be an ideal song for socialism, communism even anarchy, but its not a anthem for today's mainstream, far from it. Still its a good song.

 

You make many generalities. Do you think all woman like Cads? I don't. I hang around with lots of people, and try not to judge them. If you need Confucius to tell you to stay away from crooks, you're probably in a bad spot.

 

Hey man, looks like you are forming a judgment about me already. And that's ok. It's a natural intelligent impulse because you need to know who you dealing with. In the wild, animals judge all the time and quick or they're dead because they have a split second to scram to safety.

 

How come you take so long to respond? Anyway, I didn't say Lennon was a fraud, you did. I was just taking your lead when you said Lennon wasn't living the life he was imagining. He wasn't just an entertainer which he was when he started out. Towards the end, he was carrying on like Che Guevara.

[Marblehead]

(Not many in this forum can stomach this kind of discussion. Not even a heartless Chinese immortal. Stay down, don't reply if you want to end it.)

 

What do you mean? Stay down. Ha! I haven't even stumbled yet. You're not that good. Hehehe.

 

Do you realize that your belief – no consciousness outside the brain – was formulated when consciousness was looking at the brain and concluded that it came out from the brain? How about this belief that Chi flows with your breath through your nose to light up consciousness which cuts out when breathing stops?

 

Now you are grasping at leaves in the river.

 

However, I do hold to the concept of Chi energy. Chi permeates all things. The energy of the universe. But I do not personify it in any way. Nor do I hold to any concept that suggests a consciousness outside a functioning brain. No one has ever proven that any such consciousness exists. Yes, they have had their thoughts. That's fine but it doesn't prove anyuthing.

 

I know. Materialism is just an ideology. You can only fake it just so far. It’s the same with Buddhism.

 

I do not fake anything in my life. I live it as truely and honestly as I possibly can. And no, I have never dreamed I was a butterfly but I enjoy very much watching them flutter in my gardens.

 

That’s precisely my point. When you are one with the Way (道 i.e.Tao) you can exercise that option and terminate for the common good.

 

Ah! A man willing to give himself for the common good. There have been some who have made that choice. But you know what? It didn't change anything. All that happened is that they died early. To die early when one has the capacity to live long is not the Way of TAo.

 

Who said anything about forcing? I am talking about the Way (道 i.e.Tao) of living. Old age is not natural and not different from living on artificial life-support. Have you seen any old antelope stricken with arthritis stumbling along trying to keep up with the herd prancing away from the cheetahs? Old age is unnatural. It is infirmity, the price we pay for the fear of death.

 

You did when suggesting terminating early. Old age is normal with many species. A turtle, for example might live up to 180 years. There is a Chinese story of a Koi fish that live for 168 years. In areas where food is plentiful lion prides will feed the older members who are not able to join in on the hunt.

 

True, prey animals rarely live into old age as those are the one targetted by the predators. Old age is very common amongst any social species capable of caring for its older members. That is why old age in the human species is very common.

 

You reckon that it is good fortune to get old and feeble? There is everything wrong with it like osteoporosis, macular degeneration, shingles, dental bone loss, slow reflex, hearing impairment, short-term memory, poor sense of balance ...and I am not even talking about any of the bad stuff. They all contribute to a diminished quality of life. Why even put up with the pains of old age if you don’t have to? Are you afraid of breaking the Seventh Commandment: Thou shalt not kill?

 

Yes, it is good fortune to get old. It shows that you did not piss anyone off so badly that they decided to kill you. Sure, it also shows that you took good care of your body and likely of your mind as well. There are babies born with diseases so diseases in old age is not a reason to avoid old age.

 

Quality of life? If one lives from within there is nothing the illnesses of old age can throw at him/her to deminish their quality of life.

 

I'm not putting up with my pains. I simply accept them. They are a part of what I am.

 

Afraid? Hehehe. You, Sir, are talking with the "Fearless One". I have no fears. "Thou shalt not kill." is A Christian creed. Atheists don't pay too much attention to what is written in the Christisn Bible.

 

I won't say whether I have likked or not but consider that I was a career soldier and I spent two tours in Vietnam. I'm still alive. There are many who were there and they are no longer alive.

 

The fact that one day death will get each and every one of us really has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

 

I am not talking about death as a fact of life. I am talking about timely termination of the body the way we take a strike jet fighter out of commission before it becomes a liability to the strike force. There are no weak lions in the pride.

 

Yes there are weak lions in many prides as I spoke to above.

 

What's wrong with being a liability for a few years after having been an asset for thirty - forty years? I see no problem there.

 

But one can always retrofit that jet fighter and make it even better than the state-of-the-art fighters because you will have the best of the old as well as the best of the new. Keep your body and mind is good operating condition and you can be functional for a very long time.

 

I wonder why you won’t agree with reason. A materialist would at least be materialistic. Your concern about the body’s mode of disposal is a lot of fuss about nothing. You said we should be honest. I wonder if you are being honest with yourself.

 

Because you are not speaking reasonably. Your reasons lack logic. It is you who is slipping off into psydo-spirituality, not I. My fuss about the demise of the body was initiated by you - I was merely responding to what you said.

 

Yep. I am being honest. I will live as long as I possibly can. When death comes for me there will be one hell of a fight. I like my material world. Are you being honest when you suggest that you see no reason to live into old age? I think not, really.

 

Love? Now, you are being sentimental. The Way (道 i.e.Tao) is impartial, says Chapter 5. Even a western materialist will find Chinese philosophy tough shit. Perhaps, deep down you are a mushy Christian.

 

I said I get sentimental now and again. I realized only after my mother died that I didn't tell her often enough that I loved her. The Tao may well be impartial. I am not. I live in the dualistic manifest. The Sage is impartial. That doesn't mean that (s)he shits on all equally. It means that (s)he accepts all equally. Life doesn't have to be hard. Life doesn't have to suck. Life can be a wonderful experience. And it can be such while walking the Way of Tao, nurishing all one meets along the Way.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Marblehead

[ChiDragon]

Do you realize that your belief – no consciousness outside the brain – was formulated when consciousness was looking at the brain and concluded that it came out from the brain? How about this belief that Chi flows with your breath through your nose to light up consciousness which cuts out when breathing stops?

 

I am surprised that such a statement was made by someone who had been claimed himself as a scholar.

Edited January 4, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Aaron]

This is why you never discuss Tao. It can only be experienced. When you experience it you wont feel the need to define it. Until that happens feel free to continue to hypothesize, if nothing else, it makes for great bedtime reading.

 

Aaron

[sree]

I am surprised that such a statement was made by someone who had been claimed himself as a scholar.

 

What's wrong with the statement, Mr Chi?

[sree]

This is why you never discuss Tao. It can only be experienced. When you experience it you wont feel the need to define it. Until that happens feel free to continue to hypothesize, if nothing else, it makes for great bedtime reading.

 

Aaron

 

Have you experienced it?

[ChiDragon]

Do you realize that your belief – no consciousness outside the brain – was formulated when consciousness was looking at the brain and concluded that it came out from the brain? How about this belief that Chi flows with your breath through your nose to light up consciousness which cuts out when breathing stops?

 

What's wrong with the statement, Mr Chi?

 

Do you realize that your belief – no consciousness outside the brain – was formulated when consciousness was looking at the brain and concluded that it came out from the brain?

 

According to your statement, the consciousness came out from the brain. It seems that the consciousness has its own brain or whatever. To me, the consciousness is part of the brain. Without the brain, thus no consciousness.

 

The Chi in the breath is directly to keep the brain alive. As long the brain was being alive, the consciousness would be always there. It doesn't need Chi to light it up.

[sree]

Sree said:

"Do you realize that your belief – no consciousness outside the brain – was formulated when consciousness was looking at the brain and concluded that it came out from the brain?"

 

According to your statement, the consciousness came out from the brain.

 

I was merely stating Marblehead's belief.

 

It seems that the consciousness has its own brain or whatever. To me, the consciousness is part of the brain. Without the brain, thus no consciousness.

 

If this is your belief, which is western science, how on earth can man (人) ever be one with heaven (天人合一) ? You either embrace western scientific belief or you seek the truth. You cannot have both.

 

The Chi in the breath is directly to keep the brain alive. As long the brain was being alive, the consciousness would be always there. It doesn't need Chi to light it up.

 

I don't believe in Chi anymore than I believe in gravity. These are all man-made superstitions

Edited January 4, 2013 by sree

[ChiDragon]

I don't believe in Chi anymore than I believe in gravity. These are all man-made superstitions

 

If Chi was defined as 氧氣(oxygen) in the air, do you still considered that as man-made superstition....???