The Way (道 i.e.Tao) of Living

[Marblehead]

Fair enough... me too

Thanks for understanding.

[Marblehead]

... then what practical knowledge was specifically written into the Tao Te Ching?

Sinfest just gave you a perfect example.

[Marblehead]

Taoism is a cult comprising disparate superstitions that appeal to the those who yearn to be misled. It's pop-culture, like Pepsi or Fanta, marketed on the platform of the Tao Te Ching which is a powerful brand that has nothing to do with the Chinese Classic.

And just above you took the freedom to denigrate the TTC stating that there is nothing of value to be gain by reading and discussing it. Shame!

[sree]

Maybe the difference is in our definition of wisdom. How about the word "insight"?

 

I know what you are getting at. So, why don't you point to an instance where either wisdom or insight is laid out in the Tao Te Ching?

 

So, for you, there is nothing practical, useful, or insightful to be "gotten from the Tao Te Ching, not even by the Chineses intellectual". Since this is your position, why bother to even discuss the Tao Te Ching?

 

I have not been discussing the Tao Te Ching at all. All I have been doing is grappling with the ideas others like you here, the commentators and speakers for the eternal Tao, have derived from the Tao Te Ching. You know what I mean?

[sree]

And just above you took the freedom to denigrate the TTC stating that there is nothing of value to be gain by reading and discussing it. Shame!

 

You are using inflammatory language. Please don't do that. I have no intention of hurting anyone but that doesn't mean my words are not hurtful to those who find them offensive. If I have denigrated you directly, please cite the instance and give me the opportunity to set things right. Accusing me of offending Allah and using that as an excuse to drive me out of town is not very nice.

[sree]

You mean humanity? I thought I was a member of that group. In this case we all can discuss it.

 

I would never dream of discriminating anyone. Of course you can discuss it. Anybody can and in anyway they see it. That was my point. But declaring this is off topic or that is off topic, as you had done, is designed to stifle any discussion that is not going your way.

 

Or were you referring to the 6th century BC Chinaman? In this case none of us can discuss it.

 

I was referring to anyone who doesn't have the mind of an ass. Is that too exclusive?

[Protector]

You are using inflammatory language. Please don't do that. I have no intention of hurting anyone but that doesn't mean my words are not hurtful to those who find them offensive. If I have denigrated you directly, please cite the instance and give me the opportunity to set things right. Accusing me of offending Allah and using that as an excuse to drive me out of town is not very nice.

 

Taoism is a cult comprising disparate superstitions that appeal to the those who yearn to be misled. It's pop-culture, like Pepsi or Fanta, marketed on the platform of the Tao Te Ching which is a powerful brand that has nothing to do with the Chinese Classic.

 

I just dare you to rephrase that to make it sound not offensive

[sree]

Let me pick a chapter at random

 

15

 

English/Feng

 

The ancient masters were subtle, mysterious, profound, responsive.

The depth of their knowledge is unfathomable.

Because it is unfathomable,

All we can do is describe their appearance.

Watchful, like men crossing a winter stream.

Alert, like men aware of danger.

Courteous, like visiting guests.

Yielding like ice about to melt.

Simple, like uncarved blocks of wood.

Hollow, like caves.

Opaque, like muddy pools.

Who can wait quietly while the mud settles?

Who can remain still until the moment of action?

Observers of the Tao do not seek fulfillment.

Not seeking fulfillment, they are not swayed by desire for change.

 

Looks like I picked the perfect one. Can't go into one's mind and see exactly what one thinks but the actions of great people are for all to see. One can just be and everything would set into place in accordance to one's destiny. The actions set one's destiny into place and paint the person. A lot can be taken from this chapter alone and it is practical

 

Let me have a look at Chapter 15 and I will get back to you. I look forward to proving you right and me wrong.

[Marblehead]

You are using inflammatory language. Please don't do that. I have no intention of hurting anyone but that doesn't mean my words are not hurtful to those who find them offensive. If I have denigrated you directly, please cite the instance and give me the opportunity to set things right. Accusing me of offending Allah and using that as an excuse to drive me out of town is not very nice.

Nope. I said you denigrated the TTC. That is all I said. There is much to be gained from reading the TTC, whether it be a classical Chinese version, a modern Chinese version, or an English, or whatever, translation of it.

 

I'm not trying to drive you out of town. I have no desire whatever to do that. I only request that you talk with us, whether we be Chinese, American or Italian. We can all gain from each other.

 

It is my understanding that you read Chinese. That has value to me because I cannot read the language. Many moons ago I gained much from the Dragon because he was able to allow me room for thought regarding the word choices of the Chinese characters to English words. He always (almost, Hehehe) did his translations literally which didn't always give a clear presentation in English. We were able to discuss things like this and I gained much and I hope the Dragon can say the same.

 

I would like you to stay with us. But it gets boring when you stand alone and try to talk down other cultures, ideas and even beliefs. Please try to be a part of this large family.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

I would never dream of discriminating anyone. Of course you can discuss it. Anybody can and in anyway they see it. That was my point. But declaring this is off topic or that is off topic, as you had done, is designed to stifle any discussion that is not going your way.

 

Well, I thought it was off topic for us to be arguing about whether China is better than the US of A or if Chinese mentality is purer than Western mentality. There really is no "better". There are only differences. But there are similarities as well.

 

I was referring to anyone who doesn't have the mind of an ass. Is that too exclusive?

Even the ass and the pile of shit it drops have their place within Tao. The Sage denies no one.

[ChiDragon]

Many moons ago I gained much from the Dragon because he was able to allow me room for thought regarding the word choices of the Chinese characters to English words. He always (almost, Hehehe) did his translations literally which didn't always give a clear presentation in English. We were able to discuss things like this and I gained much and I hope the Dragon can say the same.

 

I would like you to stay with us. But it gets boring when you stand alone and try to talk down other cultures, ideas and even beliefs. Please try to be a part of this large family.

 

Yes, I can say the same(almost, hehehe).

 

@ sree, please stay with us. We had quite a few China men were kicked out of here because they had the same attitude as you but worse. Thus I am the only one that was left here to argue with all the nice understandable westerners ...western gentlemen.....

Edited January 7, 2013 by ChiDragon

[sree]

Nope. I siad you denigrated the TTC.

 

How so? Is it the kind of denigration when that British teacher named a Teddy bear Muhamad? Or is it at the level where a Buddha head is used as a doorstop? You seem to be suggesting some kind of a desecration of a holy artifact here. I am not aware that the Tao Te Ching has been appropriated by foreign cultures to become - like the Holy Bible - an object of worship outside China. Please be kind enough to explain how I have denigrated the Tao Te Ching in your eyes.

 

That is all I said. There is much to be gained from reading the TTC, whether it be a classical Chinese version, a modern Chinese version, or an English, or whatever, translation of it.

 

Ok, then do it. By all means read it in any form you wish. All do allow me the same freedom, if you don't mind.

 

I'm not trying to drive you out of town. I have no desire whatever to do that. I only request that you talk with us, whether we be Chinese, American or Italian. We can all gain from each other.

 

Talk with us? Who is us? This is an open forum, isn't it? People from all over the planet come and go in the World Wide Web. I am not aware that I have intruded a private party of Taoist initiates. And what do you mean by talk with us? Is this some gangland code of conduct? The only rules I know when I came in is 1. No foul language and 2. No fighting. You had better clue me in on any additional restrictions. .

 

It is my understanding that you read Chinese. That has value to me because I cannot read the language.

 

I read some Chinese but not as good as Dawei or Mr Chi who helps me out.

 

Many moons ago I gained much from the Dragon because he was able to allow me room for thought regarding the word choices of the Chinese characters to English words. He always (almost, Hehehe) did his translations literally which didn't always give a clear presentation in English. We were able to discuss things like this and I gained much and I hope the Dragon can say the same.

 

That's good to know.

 

I would like you to stay with us. But it gets boring when you stand alone and try to talk down other cultures, ideas and even beliefs. Please try to be a part of this large family.

 

I don't understand why you keep saying I talk down other cultures, etc.. You may want to practise this western liberal value of equality and that is fine. But to impose that value on those like me who don't buy it just isn't fair unless it is a pre-condition for participating in your group. Like I said, if there are rules in this regard, spit it out and be transparent. I would never dream of walking into a muslim prayer hall without taking off my shoes or act like a bull in a china shop in this forum with no regard for sensitivities.

[GrandmasterP]

Western Liberal Equality isn't necessarily a bad thing but I do agree it should not be imposed upon anyone elsewhere who doesn't want it.

It is imposed here in the west to some extent for example equality legislation to ensure equal rights but ...

diffrn't strokes for diffrn't folks.

 

What's your alternative model Sree?

Edited January 7, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[Protector]

sree, what are you doing?

 

Know what, denigrating would be like taking tao te ching and letting it fall to the ground. What you are doing is lifting it above your head and then letting it break like a plate on the ground

 

How so? Is it the kind of denigration when that British teacher named a Teddy bear Muhamad? Or is it at the level where a Buddha head is used as a doorstop? You seem to be suggesting some kind of a desecration of a holy artifact here. I am not aware that the Tao Te Ching has been appropriated by foreign cultures to become - like the Holy Bible - an object of worship outside China. Please be kind enough to explain how I have denigrated the Tao Te Ching in your eyes.

 

You are the one who compared it to these things and that is like the action of lifting it up.

 

Taoism is a cult comprising disparate superstitions that appeal to the those who yearn to be misled. It's pop-culture, like Pepsi or Fanta, marketed on the platform of the Tao Te Ching which is a powerful brand that has nothing to do with the Chinese Classic.

 

This is letting go of it and watching it break into pieces like a plate.

 

You are the one with preconceptions of what we are talking about and you are the one who imagines our words as enemies.

 

I don't understand why you keep saying I talk down other cultures, etc.. You may want to practise this western liberal value of equality and that is fine. But to impose that value on those like me who don't buy it just isn't fair unless it is a pre-condition for participating in your group. Like I said, if there are rules in this regard, spit it out and be transparent. I would never dream of walking into a muslim prayer hall without taking off my shoes or act like a bull in a china shop in this forum with no regard for sensitivities.

[sree]

Yes, I can say the same(almost, hehehe).

 

@ sree, please stay with us. We had quite a few China men were kicked out of here because they had the same attitude as you but worse. Thus I am the only one that was left here to argue with all the nice understandable westerners ...western gentlemen.....

 

I would love to stay but not if I have to bow to foreign oppression of the kind that China suffered. This forum is like a Chinese Kung Fu Hall but the martial art forms I see here look strange and peculiar. I see foreigners and Chinamen practising this strange form of kung fu. This is all fine and I just want to spar with you guys to test the power of your art form. But everythime I make a move, someone stops me. What's wrong with you, Mr Chi? Are you a straw dog or 天人合一 ?

[Protector]

You just have to learn some manners, that's all

[sree]

Western Liberal Equality isn't necessarily a bad thing but I do agree it should not be imposed upon anyone elsewhere who doesn't want it.

 

There is nothing wrong with equality as a individual right under the law. It is the sentiment that brands anyone who is not marching in lockstep with everybody else as a bigot and a horror that is troubling. And the very people who has this sentiment would rail against the Chinese Communist Party for trampling on human freedom.

 

It is imposed here in the west to some extent for example equality legislation to ensure equal rights but ...

diffrn't strokes for diffrn't folks.

 

Equality under the law is a nice concept. But you need to have the guts and the money to invoke it.

 

What's your alternative model Sree?

 

Alternative model for what?

[ChiDragon]

天人合一 is humans in harmony with all in a natural friendly environment. "Harmony" is the keyword here which one does not take the initiative to provoke an international incidence. One can use nicer words to present an unpleasant situation in a friendly gesture.

[takaaki]

Maybe the difference is in our definition of wisdom. How about the word "insight"?

 

So, for you, there is nothing practical, useful, or insightful to be "gotten from the Tao Te Ching, not even by the Chineses intellectual". Since this is your position, why bother to even discuss the Tao Te Ching?

 

 

Hi Jeff, what is your view about the Dao De Jing?

[GrandmasterP]

 

 

There is nothing wrong with equality as a individual right under the law. It is the sentiment that brands anyone who is not marching in lockstep with everybody else as a bigot and a horror that is troubling. And the very people who has this sentiment would rail against the Chinese Communist Party for trampling on human freedom.

 

 

 

Equality under the law is a nice concept. But you need to have the guts and the money to invoke it.

 

 

 

Alternative model for what?

 

.......

Western Liberal Polity

[takaaki]

Wouldn't a Taoist .lifestyle be whatever lifestyle a Taoist chose to lead?

 

I was wondering what that lifestyle would be, the one a Taoist choose to lead. By Taoist, I mean the kind that I am, an English-speaking Taoist who draws inspiration from the Dao De Jing in English.

 

Richard Gere is a Buddhist, not the kind chanting in the temples of Bangkok but somewhat like an English-speaking Taoist in Buddhist garb living in the west.

 

Does an English-speaking Taoist really have the freedom to choose whatever lifestyle?

Edited January 18, 2013 by takaaki

[Marblehead]

Actually, I believe that if one held firmly to the Three Treasures of Lao Tzu, regardless of what path one decided to walk one would be walking a Taoist path.

[takaaki]

Actually, I believe that if one held firmly to the Three Treasures of Lao Tzu, regardless of what path one decided to walk one would be walking a Taoist path.

 

I don't know what the Three Treasures are. I googled and found this youtube of a Chinese Flowing Hand explaining the Three Treasures.

 

 

Frankly, I don't understand what he is talking about. I understand the English but not the message being conveyed. Would you be kind enough to clarify with respect to its application in your own life?

[flowing hands]

I don't know what the Three Treasures are. I googled and found this youtube of a Chinese Flowing Hand explaining the Three Treasures.

 

 

Frankly, I don't understand what he is talking about. I understand the English but not the message being conveyed. Would you be kind enough to clarify with respect to its application in your own life?

Hey, this chap is not like me!! He comes from Wudang and is not a shaman. I come form Mao shan and I learn my arts from the Immortals.

 

The three treasures are;

 

Mercy

Economy

Being at one with the Dao

[Marblehead]

I don't know what the Three Treasures are. I googled and found this youtube of a Chinese Flowing Hand explaining the Three Treasures.

 

Frankly, I don't understand what he is talking about. I understand the English but not the message being conveyed. Would you be kind enough to clarify with respect to its application in your own life?

Hi Takaaki,

 

Flowing Hands is a member here on Taobums. I had not listened to this video before so I had to do that before responding to your post.

 

He defined the Three Treasures as: Compassion, Mercy, and Forgiveness.

 

I offer the Three Treasures as translated by Robert Henricks in his translation of the Tao Te Ching:

 

5. I constantly have three treasures;

6. Hold on to them and treasure them.

7. The first is compassion;

8. The second is frugality;

9. And the third is not presuming to be at the forefront in the world.

 

For my own purposes I have simplified these to:

 

Compassion

Conservativism

Humility

 

Flowing Hands spoke much about "love". In Lin Yutang's translation he replaced "Compassion" with "Love". Basically, if we have compassion love will grow from it.

 

The point I wanted to make above is that if we live our life with the Three Treasures as the center-piece of our interaction with our inner essence and with all living things we will be living a life of love, peace and sharing.

 

If we hold to these Treasures our actions and reactions with all living creatures will be uncontentionious. We will not be creating enemies and we will be able to live in peace.