The Way (道 i.e.Tao) of Living

[Mark Saltveit]

Yes, lots of agreement here. Qigong etc. have a lot more to them than their Daoist components, in my opinion, (comparable to yoga.) They are specific physical/spiritual traditions that have been developed over many centuries, so they have their own independent power. Not easily replaced, and I don't know of any other comparable traditions (tantra? sufism? lacrosse, in its original native form?)

 

The Western conception of the body/mind/spirit interaction is pretty limited; I think any decent scientist would agree. We can demonstrate that acupuncture works, scientifically, but our model can't really explain why. I tend to think this is the exception rather than the rule though, and that our culture is a rich font of spiritual practice, much of which is not even recognized as such (or used as it could be.)

 

I've always wondered about the relation of "The Art of War" to Daoism. Can you speak to that?

[takaaki]

It seems to me that there are many approaches to Daoism's insights.

 

Energy work is especially culturally-specific because it's based on a radically different conception of the body, life forces, etc. I wouldn't look for an American qigong so much as other physical forms; ballet? dance? zumba? basketball? soccer? Maybe one still needs to be invented. Maybe yoga is the "American" solution. Or jogging.

 

 

You shouldn't look for American kung fu either. Bruce Lee's brand of martial art is truly made-in-America. He used all forms and consequently, no form. What works was his theme including running away from getting beaten up. He wore a track-suit and sneakers for training. The Chinese believed that the older the kung fu master, the more lethal he gets. Bruce didn't think you could get better as you grew older but you could only get smarter. Another Chinese kung fu lie was the power of chi that even a pot-bellied kung fu master could deploy. Bruce packed six-pack abs and maintained a superb physique, and his fighting style gave rise to Mixed-Martial Arts that is flourishing in America today. Although he had deep respect for martial art principles, he didn't mince words in showing his disdain for superstitious traditional Chinese kung fu beliefs. In fact, he demonstrated that contempt to a horrified Chinese audience in a Hong Kong TV show.

 

When Bruce Lee became an overnight box-office sensation, he was invited as guest on a TV show along with several renowned Chinese kung fu masters from the various schools. When it came time to show off, a taichi master got up, set himself up in a stance planted solidly on the stage and invited the other kung fu masters to try and push him off his perch. One by one they got up from their chairs and tried but none could budge the taichi master an inch. Bruce just sat there in his chair watching the proceedings.The Taichi master then motioned to Bruce Lee, who was really the star of the show on account of his new-found movie-star fame, and taunted, "Young man, you are a good fighter on the movie screen, why don't you try and move me?" Bruce got up, went over to the taichi master who braced himself for the push. Bruce unleashed a lightning fast Muhamad Ali-style uppercut that came from nowhere and sent the taichi master stumbling backwards several steps before crashing mightily to the floor. The audience was aghast as the other alarmed kung fu masters rushed forward to help the taichi master up. One of them turned to Bruce and asked:"Why did you punch him?" Bruce replied, 'I don't push. I punch."

 

Now we know why sane Americans like James Coburn and Steve McQueen loved Bruce Lee so much.

Edited January 29, 2013 by takaaki

[ChiDragon]

 

I've always wondered about the relation of "The Art of War" to Daoism. Can you speak to that?

 

There are some chapters do speak about the things similar to "The Art of Wat". I was hoping somebody would be interested in that.

[Marblehead]

There are some chapters do speak about the things similar to "The Art of Wat". I was hoping somebody would be interested in that.

We've tried doing "The Art Of War" a couple times with no success. Perhaps one day.

[Mark Saltveit]

What happened? I don't know of any scholars who consider The Art of War Daoist, though it appears to date to roughly the same era and may have been loosely influenced by Daoism. Certainly the reluctance to fight feels Daoish.

 

It may be something like the Yijing, part of the same cultural stew but a different flavor.

[ChiDragon]

What happened? I don't know of any scholars who consider The Art of War Daoist, though it appears to date to roughly the same era and may have been loosely influenced by Daoism. Certainly the reluctance to fight feels Daoish.

 

The part one might be missed, in the TTC, about "The Art of War" was: "To win a war is not to start a war." Thus no one wins is the biggest triumph of it all.

Edited January 29, 2013 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

I think it would be an interesting read and study here but I think the typical camps would be setup (purely philosophy vs meta-physical sides).

 

But here is an online translation which could be the basis, by Giles:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/aow/index.htm

 

 

I think this is a decent introduction:

http://www.waikato.ac.nz/wfass/subjects/history/waimilhist/1998/suntzu.html

 

 

Cleary's Book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=trpSpjQjg_cC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=the+art+of+war+is+taoist+text&source=bl&ots=6YhaSp68K8&sig=rB2snNeYgoZ1h1Q0o5WqLJra6KA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lg4IUdmtEIum8QT_3IGoDw&ved=0CE0Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=the%20art%20of%20war%20is%20taoist%20text&f=false

[ChiDragon]

We've tried doing "The Art Of War" a couple times with no success. Perhaps one day.

 

You are not trying hard enough. Maybe you should hire somebody.........

[Marblehead]

 

You are not trying hard enough. Maybe you should hire somebody.........

Hehehe. I did that when I needed drywall work done in my house. I just can't do drywall.