Further discussion

[3bob]

"...My guess is our particular illusion started with the big bang and all of the suns are part and parcel of each other..." Manitou

 

 

The Big bang is one way to put it, I like the saying of a Big Om!

 

For me the term "illusion" is problematic and or has negative connotations in the way that is it often bandied about, I say that because I don't see a disconnect point of illusion existing anywhere in the whole kit-and-caboodle. For instance the invisible is connected to the visible, undifferentiated light is connected to differentiated light, form is connected to formlessness, silence is connected to a deafening roar, if one has some experience working with electricity one knows that an AC transformer has no wires connected between its primary and secondary sides yet there is a connection made across same via a transforming electro-magnetic field that transfers energy to the secondary side. I think this electric transformer image could be used as an analogy for the connection between the "Mystery" and the "mysteries" (and so forth)... one thing for sure, I don't ever want to get stuck at the crossroads of a "no-mans" land between same.

Edited August 18, 2013 by 3bob

[manitou]

"...My guess is our particular illusion started with the big bang and all of the suns are part and parcel of each other..." Manitou

 

 

The Big bang is one way to put it, I like the saying of a Big Om!

 

For me the term "illusion" is problematic and or has negative connotations in the way that is it often bandied about, I say that because I don't see a disconnect point of illusion existing anywhere in the whole kit-and-caboodle. For instance the invisible is connected to the visible, undifferentiated light is connected to differentiated light, form is connected to formlessness, silence is connected to a deafening roar, if one has some experience working with electricity one knows that an AC transformer has no wires connected between its primary and secondary sides yet there is a connection made across same via a transforming electro-magnetic field that transfers energy to the secondary side. I think this electric transformer image could be used as an analogy for the connection between the "Mystery" and the "mysteries" (and so forth)... one thing for sure, I don't ever want to get stuck at the crossroads of a "no-mans" land between same.

The way I see it, We Are It and we are the projectors of the maya. We are just the current thinkers in the process of evolution and we create our own universe. We are the artist. I agree with you that there is no disconnect between the seen and the unseen, but if we're capable of transcending the physical self and emitting not only the I Am consciousness, but to love every brother as ourselves (ourselves being the hardest one of all to love!) we can change our physical circumstances. If you want to attract a good woman to your life, you must become that which you want to attract. This is where the life recapitulation is important and the clearing-out process is necessary - to remove as many vestiges of unnecessary ego as we can. If we get caught up in anger (or even bliss) we are still caught up in the illusion. The Native Americans who follow their spiritual path of their heritage would call this 'developing a heart of stone'. This is not to infer that they develop a 'I don't give a hang' about life. To the contrary, it's to transcend all the emotions and see things as the cardboard cutout that it is. It says this in the DDJ as well. Depending on the translator, the words will be different - but it says that there are two ways of seeing things - to immerse one's self into the emotion and understand the Seen, or to transcend emotion so that the unseen intent can be seen. It's like getting out of the trees to see the forest. We have the choice every moment of our lives.

 

But in order to transcend the Seen, this must be done from a point of ego removal, a point of Oneness with everything. If we allow our excess ego to color our vision with our own personal opinions, we're not seeing clearly, we're seeing through a crooked and contorted path, depending on how much ego and opinion is in the way.

 

I do see it as two sides of the same coin. And I know that when I do a triangulation of one who comes to me for such purpose, all I have to do is to look at their current manifestations (their relationships, their living conditions, etc) to See where the correction needs to be made; this is done by rising above their manifestations, seeing where they currently are. I utilize a 'heart of stone' as mentioned above and relate their immediate problem (as they perceive it) to their inner condition (as I can see it through their manifestations.) Another way to See, if you're an artist, is to do a drawing of the person, and squiggle all sorts of nonsensical shapes around their portrait. Then, mindlessly 'color' all of the mindless shapes, to color it in different colors (I use magic markers). Sometimes I'm led to include stripes in a particular shape, or a series of dots, etc. I just let the coloration and style 'come' to me. But to continually turn the page around so that I don't subconsciously 'manipulate' anything in the drawing. The answers come from out of the ethers. I recently did one for a very heavy woman and we immediately found out what the problem is. She's eating at that which is eating at her. A nasty looking entity was gnawing at her leg, but the nasty entity also had a rooster-come sort of thing on its head. This I interpreted as a wake-up call for her. Another shape which emerged was a person-shaped entity who had a block for a head-shape; contained within that head shape in the middle was a red square, but it was a maze-shape which encompassed the red square that indicated to me her blockage. I asked her, when we were trying to figure out the drawing, if there was anything that was 'gnawing' at her.

 

Well, there was. Her sister slept with her husband a few years back, and the marriage was terminated immediately. The woman I was doing the reading for has never had the courage to confront her sister about this, because she spends much time with her sister's sons and loves them very much. I'm guessing that Chris (the woman I was reading for) has a component of 'get-backness' by trying to pull the affections of the boys toward her and away from her sister, but that may not be the case, as I don't know the woman that well. But the blockage is that Chris has never had the courage to confront the situation. When she starts to feel the anger rise after her sis says something that reminds Chris of her sister's betrayal of her, she'll make an excuse and leave her sister's house and go home, fuming.

 

My suggestion to Chris was to put out her intent to heal the situation. To utilize wu-wei, although she doesn't understand anything of the Tao. I told her that the next time she feels the ire rise, take a deep breath, let the anger pass, and then go up to her sister, hold her hands and look her in the eyes. Tell her in the most loving way she possibly can how she feels about what happened some years back, but don't do it in an accusatory fashion; rather, do it with as much love as she can muster. But the wu-wei trick is to let the situation and the right moment evolve into her. Don't do anything prematurely, as her own manipulations will not be allowing the Tao to handle it.

 

A bit off track, I admit, for this discussion. But it's a strange way of connecting the Seen with the Unseen. Perhaps I'm in the 'no-man's land' you mentioned, but I can get out of it at the drop of a hat. Strange thing, our subconscious. It certainly knows things that we don't.

 

Sorry this was so long!

Edited August 18, 2013 by manitou

[manitou]

Also, 3bob, I think the very thing that best illustrates matter/no matter is the fact that matter has been identified as both a particle and a wave. A particle takes up space, a wave can be measured from point A to point B. I wish I were more scientifically schooled so I could better explain my feeling about this - it is just an intuition. I actually think our 'natural state' is downright invisible, as demonstrated by those adepts who can actually disappear. Perhaps in some way it is Error Thinking that got us into this material state.

[3bob]

I'd say there is nothing wrong with the material state(s) since they are needed for evolution, and one of those materials includes pure woven light. Another wonderful thing about form to me is that it is the divine matrix that Spirit works with and through; thus no mother then no one to awaken and grow up and become a spiritual adult working in the worlds.

[manitou]

I love the pure woven light concept. That's all we are. And yes, I think it is the vehicle to realize our own god-ness. This could be why incarnations apparently stop when the god-ness is realized; the only remaining question is the purpose as to why Spirit needed to self-realize through the physical. Company?

[Mark Foote]

... the only remaining question is the purpose as to why Spirit needed to self-realize through the physical. Company?

 

Maybe it's a parallel and reciprocal relationship, the physical of the spiritual, the spiritual of the physical. Like the wave/particle thing, everywhere and in just one place simultaneously. Tag, you're it!

[manitou]

I am truly Laughing Out Loud. Love you, Mark Foote!

 

Or maybe it just has something to do with Love being the basis for everything and just bursting at the seams to manifest. Less scientific than your take, but it fits into my understanding pretty well. Actually, I was just kidding about the Company thing. That would be pretty dual, no?

 

As you think about it, when you feel Love are you not bursting at the seams? Maybe that's what it all boils down to. And when we get to this point, all things fall into alignment - when you feel unconditional love for all.

[manitou]

The sense of gravity is with the ostoliths, near the vestibular organs that provide the sense of place; that's the third sense. The other two are:

 

 

\Funny that you say that. When I first got sober 31 years ago, I had to come up with a 'power greater than myself'. In my arrogance, the only power greater than myself was the power of gravity. and that's what I used. I still do, as it is part of the Whole.

[RongzomFan]

I feel equally sorry for them and will include them in my tonglen practice.

Thank you

 

 

They would feel sorry for anyone wasting their precious human life by viewing Buddhadharma as yet another man-made system.