Assessing a Sickness called "My Life"

[deci belle]

Wanting is. Desire is valid. But unawares we do not see that the habit of ignorant desire co-opting real energy from the homeland of nothing whatsoever is actually very subtle in its incipience, as it perpetually sets up anticipatory relationships out out nothing whatsoever, resulting in longing karma.

 

So if you have even the slightest degree of rationally conscious restraint~ immediately you have, sigh… depression karma.

 

It is actually possible to see your desire as DESIRE, and find out what it is.. But it is the ignorant incipience of habit energy that creates karmic residue. That incipient flow is sso subtle. Real desire is divine energy that can be channelled.

 

One must see the habit energy in the moment to stop it, and stop it, and stop it again and again and again.

 

Reality has no cause. Why create cause? "The master does no cutting".

 

I'll tell you this, unless you are ready to watch this world from afar even as you grapple with it intimately, longing will only get you a deferred sentence which you are presently living out in this breath, unawares.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i was brought up with "you cant always get what you want", so i never expected to get anything i ever wanted. But it doesnt stop it from hurting. it doesnt mean i actually UNDERSTAND those words or the sentiment. i've tackled it all my life and never understood it, but i still try to live by it, as it is all i know: that i can never have what i want/desire.

 

 

I've always tried to make do with what i have, but i have never known what was necessary; never could find need in all of reality beyond the "prerequisites of a goal"; in other words "need" is, as defined by me, the prerequisites of acquiring a desire/want.

 

 

 

NEVER figured "need" out in my life. still dont know what is necessary.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[Birch]

i was brought up with "you cant always get what you want", so i never expected to get anything i ever wanted. But it doesnt stop it from hurting. it doesnt mean i actually UNDERSTAND those words or the sentiment. i've tackled it all my life and never understood it, but i still try to live by it, as it is all i know: that i can never have what i want/desire.

 

Yes, I had this one thrown at me very often and if memory serves, the point of it was to teach me to stop asking for things I wanted or needed. Or was dreaming about (too grandiose). This was to the convenience of the person saying it and none other. Of course I bought it (along with a large number of other things). IMO/IME the sentiment to understand is one's own. What did this remark say to me about myself? Is that a true statement? When I believe it, what do I do as a result?

 

 

 

 

 

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

It taught me to give up.... A habit I cannot find the power to break alone; had the power when I was fooled into believing I was in love, or more specifically that the girl; I believed loved me back.... But as much as I hate the song and everything it represents, I find it more true than false:

 

Girls dont like guys, they like cars and money.

 

 

 

I dont have car, singular, let alone cars, plural! LET ALONE any form of securing an income! Been out of work for far too long, and had far too few interviews; so since I can't LITERALLY afford a relationship, I guess I can't figuratively afford one either.

 

 

 

So...

 

 

Maybe giving up really is the problem... but it also seems like the solution at this point.

 

 

 

 

But the fact of the matter is, I cannot give up on my hope that I will have a family some day.... And it kills me to death; every once in a while when I cannot suffocate it, bottle it up, push it down, or ignore it any longer... Then it is only harmful; to me and to others who try to comfort me... ... others stupid enough who think there is any way words can help cure a socioeconomic disease.

 

 

 

edited "cure a social disease."

and miscelanious typoes.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[Birch]

I'm sorry to hear that it lead to you giving up. That's a terrible consequence IMO for anyone.

The 'problem' with this stuff IMO/IME is that a person has to work on it themselves, even if things like therapy and cultivation help, all of the above issues about cars and girls and jobs, while also stemming very much from the environment also 'need' some key components within oneself to 'function'.

 

---opinion alert---

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

there are jumbo jets flying over head that went over my head at a lower altitude than your words.... i would like to understand them more clearly... if possible?

 

 

 

 

 

edit: perhaps a clearer understanding; a more direct response?

 

 

 

What is necessary within oneself? In order for the cars/girls/money equation to work, what is the necessary component within the self to make that work?

 

 

And dont say "playa" LOL

Edited January 12, 2013 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[Birch]

Not at all:-) Sorry for sounding obscure, but IME it's a meeting of inward and outward experience that in some way 'agree' with each other. If you change your agreement about never getting what you want then I suggest you might start going after it, car or no car. But like I said,I can't tell you what your taking on of what was fed to you led you to believe, that's the part you find out for yourself. I can only guess at it and I don't want to lead you to imagine I know more about you than you do. I don't:-)

[ShenLung]

Torturous to the soul, are unrealized expectations. While one has the desire for the things that others have, be they wealth, power, status, love, family, ect, others have quickly moved to obtain these things, with no regard for the unexpected future. In the short term, they may believe that they have found happiness; in the long term, unless these gifts are within the scope of what their true needs are, they will be lost. Releasing expectations opens up possibilities; the desires of the ego may yet be fulfilled, in the proper time, for the proper reasons. The gifts that the universe brings come with patience, so practice patience; the gifts of the universe should be appreciated, so practice appreciation of everything that one has - and want for nothing.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

im usually the last person to know something about me O_o!!! hell, tell ya what, everyone ELSE sure thinks they know why i am a failure at life, still single, and have no kids! just ask them, they'll tell ya!

 

 

It's my facial hair, or my hair is too long, or i dont have a job, or i dont have a car. i've heard them all.

 

 

 

Only thing i havent heard is a genuine 100% true "i love you" from a significant other. i stopped trying to find somethign taht doesnt exist outside teh movies.

 

 

I thought, at first, "let it come to me". but if "it" doesnt exist, i will be waiting for my life to start until i die. so i guess it is a lose-lose situation.

 

 

 

I gave up on other people, not on my hopes of having a family..... problem is, other peopel are kind of required in the deal... and so far, the only valid people i meet are online, mostly HERE on TTB!

 

 

 

All you ladies here would peobably be worthwhile company.

 

The girls in my life? Not so much..... irritatingly self centered most often than not.

 

 

... or taken/married/etc... Or related XD

 

 

I had a dream come true once... well until it turned out she wanted nothing to do with me.... never even dated, but to this day, i cant shake her face, or the dream where i "first met" her.... It's THAT which inspires suicide more than anything..... god's got a sick sense of humor!

 

 

 

 

 

edit: response II:

 

Shen, there isnt a "dont like" button. no offense lol cuz i really DONT LIKE "patience"! LOL being paitent means:

Letting your dreams and hopes dissolve between your fingertips, letting "bubba" have his wy with you in the cell, letting "them" have your every desire and want, never complaining about how FUCKED you are, and alwys smiling when life tells you to bend over and take it up the ass...

 

 

 

I cant do any of those things, that is why i am not patient.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[Birch]

Well, I would suggest that old saw of 'knowing thyself'. Those don't sound like very 'friendly' things to say to anyone. Did you ask for advice and feedback?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

the cumulative sum of advice and feedback i typically recieve from my peers is "get a hair cut" or "get a job" and every so often it's "shave" or "take a shower".... well useless feedback if i do say so myself I used to troll forums with my angsty bullshit, but now i keep it to myself. save those few days, like today, when i cant keep it surpressed where it belongs.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[Birch]

Well I disagree strongly that it belongs 'suppressed'. If it's there, why is it there? Where did it come from very exactly? I'd also suggest you read the thread on the interview with BK Frantzis.

BTW, not taking care of yourself (I'm not saying to look good for others) seems to me to be signal. Many people with difficult family backgrounds seem to have problems with it. I believe one does (as an adult) have to look after oneself.

 

--- opinion alert--

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

"it" in its isness is a cause of misery and misfortune. i am avoiding many ills and ails by surpressing it.

 

 

I could embrace the anger and hate that it has insp[ired all my life and become a murderer.... or i can surpress it.

 

 

I can carry it in my hands and take it out on everyone around me, or i can try to ignore it.

 

 

 

Therapy was patronizing, friendships became burned bridges, and family is just looking for "someone else" to dump me on.

 

 

I agree that i need to be self sufficient in terms of adulthood, but i'd like an OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO. no one comes to the door knocking and asking if you want a job. and no one reads my job applications. its a vicious cycle.

 

 

In the event of a major catestrophy, i would be fine, fully capable of taking care of myself.

 

Having to comprehend the absurd mentalities of my peers and submit to the social norms are not within my capacity. It is as alien to me, understandign why cutting my hair is so damned important, as growing a tripple jointed finger with a nasty claw out of the center of my forehead...

 

 

 

As for this uprising angst and self loathing.... if it "shouldnt be surpressed" (but mind you is very volatle and dangerous otherwise) whad do you think "should" be done with it? I would LOVE to let it "run its course" and kill everything and everyone around me, but at the same time, i wouldnt like that one bit, nor would i have any capacity to face the consequences thereof.

[Birch]

I very much doubt you'd kill anyone. Were you taught to be afraid of your anger and to tone it down? To me the extent of this rage has its location in a different time. Many therapists don't want to 'go there' and look at family as a source of these issues. And while family is (and the wider 'family') often at source, it's with oneself that the means to resolve it are to be found.

I can get into choice of friends too. IME it's just a way of being, 'habitual' per Deci's post.

 

Or like I joked with someone else the other day 'We both agree we don't respect me' :-)

 

 

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

my anger has always been very violent. i would, indeed, have committed murder in grade school had i not kept at least enough self control and sense not to let the consequences outweigh my actions.

 

And it is perhaps the consequences alone that prevent my anger from manifesting in such a physically debilitating manner... but perhaps also prevent it from ever reaching resolution.

 

 

Regardless of the source of my inner turmoil, there are no external solutions, and thus far no internal solutions either. i keep looking, seeking truth, searching for answers....

 

 

Suppress it today taht i may find new information another day...

 

 

Or let it out and watch the carnage, and the end of my life, unfold before my eyes as i let go of the reigns and allow karma to wrap up my fate and tie it off.

[Birch]

So you have more than enough self-control to limit your actions. I wouldn't equate that with anger suppression but rather fine self-mastery! My experience has been that the rage levels out after a while (quite some time) of being with it and understanding it. No action taken during that time due to where it has its source (earlier) and the consequences you mention wouldn't be consistent with the present conditions. I have no idea where 'karma' fits with any of this.

 

 

 

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

that is assuming i let it all out; karma is then the only controlling factor, not my self, or my body.... to suggest that embracing the botteled up turmoil would render myself null and void as but an extention of the negative karma associated with the anger, hate, and violence i would therefore be embracing... savoring maybe even.

 

 

If i were to embrace the anger and hate and regret and sorrow, it would be akin to watching the end of a bad movie... i'd "be there" only in the spirit of the observer. everything "happening" would not be me or mine but the anger, hate, regret, and sorrow manifest through what was once called "my body"...

Edited January 12, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Birch]

I have to wonder about that Mr North. If karma there is, then it's hardly distinct from any of the things you mention. Deci's ideas about 'stealing potential' notwithstanding.

 

---The preceding comment is my opinion---

[deci belle]

I'm goona call him dr NO~ hahahhaha!!❤❤

[hydrogen]

 

I'll tell you this, unless you are ready to watch this world from afar even as you grapple with it intimately, longing will only get you a deferred sentence which you are presently living out in this breath, unawares.

 

Deci belle, I think your method might work well for you. Could I ventrue by saying that you don't have a partner nor any kids of your own.

 

I've seen myself, a quantum computer, an exact duplicate of universe computer.

 

But whenever I want to be rid of myself, I feel the love, love from my parents, from my kids and from some radom strangers. Maybe it's the gravity force from the source wrongly interpreted by me as love. Does it matter?

 

I feel silly to comment on your method for I don't even know what your method really is. And it's so childish to compare super ability. Jesus could walk on water, turn water into wine and came back from crucifixion. Can you do these? If not, is that possible that Jesus saw the whole picture a little more and his method is easier?

[deci belle]

deci belle, on 12 January 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:


I'll tell you this, unless you are ready to watch this world from afar even as you grapple with it intimately, longing will only get you a deferred sentence which you are presently living out in this breath, unawares.

Try to stop comparing self and others. They have never existed. This is a bad habit you ought to drop before you take another breath or think another thought.

Longing will only accomplish imprisoning you in this world. Enlightened or not, there is no escape. Either you are aware of it or not. Your nature is causeless. Why are you giving cause to continued illusory existence?

Detaching from appearances is not a method, it is inconceivable strategy. If your will to enlightenment is weak, you will succumb to your self-generated illusory existence and drag your family along with it. Forget the excuses. Your obstacles are self-generated. Drop them.

Nothing has ever been gained or lost by complete perfect enlightenment. Why fear that dropping your selfish habitual attachments to your relationship with karmic existence will somehow harm your spiritual refinement? Changing your orientation with the conditioned flow of karmic evolution will simply free you from further karmic evolution. Will that be easier than going along with it? Is it easier to be awake or asleep? How do you know? When did you find out?

The fact is you don't know. Is your plan to wait for the easiest method to bump into you and wonder what Jesus would do?

Wake up! Purity and detachment are a raft to the other side. Once you reach the other side you just jump into the deep end and forget the raft. There is no safety. There is no easy way. Detach from appearances as you adapt to conditions in everyday ordinary situations using objective awareness gained by forgetting emotional consciousness.

I don't envy you. I had to do it, that's why I know. Good luck with that, hydrogen.❤

 

Actually it's the easiest thing in the world when you have no choice~ and that's what it comes down to.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add last line

Edited January 16, 2013 by deci belle

[Birch]

Ah, you ought to know this one Deci.

What's the silent sound?

 

I don't know what you're talking about with this love problem. I agree if you're referring to the reverse (which is what I used to call love, but it's all a bit screwed up backwards.) Are you sure Hydrogen and you aren't in agreement?

[deci belle]

I added another line to my post above before getting to your post, K. I don't know what precipitated your comment about silent sound, love/its reverse and what you see as an agreement.

 

Could you clarify what, in your view, constitutes agreement? Are you an innocent bystander in making this observation, or do you have something invested?

 

Seeing as how hydrogen isn't concerned with the stringless tune at this point, only his attachments and relative comparisons of self and other that facilitate obstacles to enlightening being. I know the absolute divorced from the delusional human condition won't address these issues (if that's what you mean by your reference to silent sound)

 

There seems to be no wonder of it all, only the gravity of sentimental awareness that sets up conflicting emotions relative to his idea of what a "method" arriving at selfless realization and ensuing enlightening being might entail.

 

The dilemma is self-perpetuated because hydrogen does not see potential free of conditions that not only enables, but requires a natural response in order to pass through situations without pandering to others' or insinuating one's own karmic airs.

 

It is this kind of enlightening activity that frees self and other from within the living context of actual situations. Situations themselves are self-contained in terms of the time where one sets to work.

 

Concern over others' powerful exhibitions and spiritual stunts doesn't have a place in the life of a charmed existence. One meets creation with the potential inherent in the situation itself openly, sincerely and precisely, with nothing outside of oneself to rely on as nothing is outside oneself.

 

There are no isolated solutions to life's problems in that the continuum of reality is causeless; one either goes along with cloying conditions or one meets them with an inconceivable, spontaneous strategy of whole selfless adaptability.

 

Everything resolves in the Unborn, the homeland of nothing whatsoever, the storehouse of potential. This is enlightening being's point of reference, not the trends of the times, the apparitions of the matrix of created karmic evolution, which subtle operation transcends by spontaneous selfless adaption.

 

Worldly notions of loving or its reverse have no direct bearing in terms of expressing entry into the tao in reality. The absolute could be called pure impersonal love for that matter, but chaos must be assessed at every turn. One must know the Changeless to stand subtly outside karma's evolutionary cycles.

 

 

 

 

ed note: dang, when I finished, I forgot where I started!

Edited January 16, 2013 by deci belle

[skydog]

.

Edited January 16, 2013 by sinansencer

[Birch]

Nothing in particular precipitated - it felt like the right thing to do. Although, now you're asking me after the fact, how do I know what the reason was?

 

No, there was a feeling of agreement, accord of the sides which you and Hydrogen had determined yourselves to be on. That's when I heard the silent sound. It happens from time to time. Now with respect to your above comments all I hear is 'clang clang' since you have divided you, enlightened on the one hand and Hydrogen not, on the other. Well 'technically' I've done this, but still.

 

Barse ackwards.