Fascism + Solutions

[Marblehead]

been reading ...

Yeah, even today there are millions (billions?) of people who are not allowed to live in freedom. And the trend is that the more power we allow our institutions to have the fewer freedoms we will have. The institutions care only about themselves in almost all cases.

[zerostao]

The message is plain enough, and we have ignored it for too long:
the great, centralized economic entities of our time do not come into
rural places in order to improve them by "creating jobs." They come
to take as much of value as they can take, as cheaply and as quickly
as they can take it. They are interested in "job creation" only so
long as the jobs can be done more cheaply by humans than by
machines. They are not interested in good health--economic or
natural or human--of any place on this earth.
Wendell Berry

is it any coincidence that walmart's first stores were in arkansas,kansas, louisiana, missouri, oklahoma, tennessee , and kentucky? slowly and deliberately expanding,

 

then wendell continues...

...if you should undertake to appeal or complain to one of these
great corporations on behalf of your community, you would discover
something most remarkable: you would find that these organizations
are organized expressly for the evasion of responsibility. They are
structures in which, as my brother says, "the buck never stops." The
buck is processed up the hierarchy until finally it is passed to "the
shareholders," who characteristically are too widely dispersed, too
poorly informed, and too unconcerned to be responsible for anything.
The ideal of the modern corporation is to be (in terms of its own
advantage) anywhere and (in terms of local accountability) nowehere.

and

 

We are now pretty obviously facing the possibility of a world that
the supranational corporations, and the governments and educational
systems that serve them, will control entirely for their own
enrichment--and, incidentally and inescapably, for the impoverishment
of all the rest of us.

and

 

We can't go on too much longer, maybe, without considering the
likelihood that we humans are not intelligent enough to work on the
scale to which we have been tempted by our technological abilities.

and he further continues

well i will skip thru to

What we have before us, if we want our communities to survive, is the
building of an adversary economy, a system of local or community
economies within, and to protect against, the would-be global
economy.

Edited February 5, 2013 by zerostao

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I'll die fighting. We HAVE no choice but to fight eventually; "There is no avoiding war; it can only be delayed to the advantage of your opponent", this is the only aspect of our current scenario that i am certain: WE are prolonging our suffering by not waging war against our opponent NOW.

[eye_of_the_storm]

The Communist dream... after all these years seems to have finally come to full fruition // To completely destroy the beacon of light, innovation, freedom that was the USA many, many years ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXg2WsNCrW4

I wish all true patriots the best of luck and deliverance from this wickedness...

Edited February 5, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[zerostao]

I'll die fighting. We HAVE no choice but to fight eventually; "There is no avoiding war; it can only be delayed to the advantage of your opponent", this is the only aspect of our current scenario that i am certain: WE are prolonging our suffering by not waging war against our opponent NOW.

 

zen nomad, i encourage you to accept that there are in fact other choices. and fighting is playing into the enemies hands.

dont sacrifice yourself so easily. withdraw from the corporate culture of consumerism.

 

no edit, will post on doable anarchy

Edited February 5, 2013 by zerostao

[ralis]

The Communist dream... after all these years seems to have finally come to full fruition // To completely destroy the beacon of light, innovation, freedom that was the USA many, many years ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXg2WsNCrW4

I wish all true patriots the best of luck and deliverance from this wickedness...

 

This thread is in regards to fascism and not communism. If you would pay attention, think critically and read history, you will understand the difference. Perhaps that is too much to ask.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Communism is what Fascism tried to prevent...

These two have history... as you may know

So a discussion on Fascism would entail at times discussion regarding Communism.

All the Best

[ralis]

Communism is what Fascism tried to prevent...

These two have history... as you may know

So a discussion on Fascism would entail at times discussion regarding Communism.

All the Best

 

Your posts are clear as mud and offer no discussion points. Just cut and paste.

[joeblast]

Nope, just to some of us, Statism is bloody Statism is bloody authoritarianism tyranny. Remember why Telos decided humans (Pike) werent fit at first.

[Apech]

Nope, just to some of us, Statism is bloody Statism is bloody authoritarianism tyranny. Remember why Telos decided humans (Pike) werent fit at first.

 

 

The 19th and 20th centuries 'experimented' with various kinds of governmental regimes. Communism actually stems from an economic theory of collective ownership of land and means of production. Soviet style socialism was not actually full communism but intended as a means to achieve that. It involved central control of the economy and the Soviet assembly which set economic and social programs. This style of socialism is almost defunct unless you count Cuba and North Korea (which is actually more like a god-king oligarchy).

 

Fascism is also central control but by the 'few' ... that is the elite who hold the society and economy together hence the fascist symbol which is an axe with a bundle of wood around it. The axe is the elite and the wood the people. In an ideal fascist state (if such a thing were possible) the few, the elite would through their greater intelligence and far sightedness act for the benefit of the many. However this is actually given human nature an impossible ideal as the elite will always act in their own interest.

 

The experiments failed. The soviet union collapsed, Fascism through the excesses of the Nazis became unacceptable and recognisably flawed. So that left the liberal democracies. Liberal because of the focus on individual rights and democracy because of the election of the government ... different models exist of course because of the historical differences in various countries and cultures ... the main three being American style Presidential democracy, British Parliamentary democracy and the republics of Europe. It is one of these models which we export into iraq and other countries - a mistake in my view because democracy and the exact model used has to be grown from the base up and not imposed from above to work properly.

 

Nothing that you will see in the US is or will ever be anything approaching communism since collective ownership is an impossible idea. However because of the Cold War the word communism is sued as a kind of insult/monster in the dark to scare people and this only works if they have no idea what it really is. Fascism of a kind probably does exist because those who hold all the cash and power exert massive influence and try to control everyone's lives. However even this is not real fascism as a principle because the elite are hidden behind and rely on the front of the elected officials.

[Marblehead]

It is one of these models which we export into iraq and other countries - a mistake in my view because democracy and the exact model used has to be grown from the base up and not imposed from above to work properly.

An excellent and very important observation.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Maybe a different thread?

What is ones ideal form of governance?

[Birch]

Governance of what?

[eye_of_the_storm]

Of a Nation...

The reason I brought up Fascism was mostly because of its concept of Autarky

Autarky is the quality of being self-sufficient.

So a fully self sufficient / self sustaining Nation

+ With self sufficient / self sustaining individuals within such a nation.

+ I believe that all large infrastructure works; transport, energy, water, BANKS should be completely owned and controlled by the people.

With the notion of people being self sustaining... I imagine energy and water would become household / off the grid.

I think this is a good idea for the individual, the collective + the environment.

Edited February 7, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Marblehead]

Seems to me that you got pretty close to talking about "Social Anarchy" in that post.

With the notion of people being self sustaining... I imagine energy and water would become household / off the grid.

That would be nice but I think there are way too many people on this planet now for this to become a reality. I really don't like being pessimistic but I have to consider reality whenever I consider concepts such as this.

[Apech]

....

 

+ I believe that all large infrastructure works; transport, energy, water, BANKS should be completely owned and controlled by the people.

 

 

 

....

 

 

 

That is communism.

[Marblehead]

That is communism.

That's true but I didn't want to be the one to tell him.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Ahaha

If you read my post in full... not quite //

Basically point is to minimize government as much as possible... I don't think roads etc can be avoided.

Ideally I would limit transportation to bikes, horses, walking haha

I would also advocate for a citizen army as per Switzerland (if people wish... not compulsory - I doubt many would refuse)

Education would also be optional.

I once would have called myself an Anarchist haha... MH / soon realized that was far too idealist.

I would outlaw usury + fractional reserve banking.

(work in progress)

Edited February 7, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Birch]

Have a look a the Swiss model. It's pretty interesting.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Will do thanks

[eye_of_the_storm]

Ahh! even in the first paragraph!

For any change in the constitution, a referendum is mandatory; for any change in a law, a referendum can be requested. Through referenda, citizens may challenge any law voted by federal parliament and through initiatives introduce amendments to the federal constitution, making Switzerland the closest state in the world to a direct democracy.

^ Yes!

Good stuff so far

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland

Edited February 7, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Apech]

Ahaha

 

If you read my post in full... not quite //

 

Basically point is to minimize government as much as possible... I don't think roads etc can be avoided.

 

Ideally I would limit transportation to bikes, horses, walking haha

 

I would also advocate for a citizen army as per Switzerland (if people wish... not compulsory - I doubt many would refuse)

 

Education would also be optional.

 

I once would have called myself an Anarchist haha... MH / soon realized that was far too idealist.

 

I would outlaw usury + fractional reserve banking.

 

(work in progress)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the people own everything then they have to run it.

 

Education is optional ... don't agree with that ... enough stupid people already ....

[eye_of_the_storm]

If the people own everything then they have to run it.

 

Education is optional ... don't agree with that ... enough stupid people already ....

 

That is true.

 

Education is optional ... don't agree with that ... enough stupid people already ....

 

I agree and I think this is a direct result of government (forced) education ^

 

People should be allowed to pursue their own path...

 

I knew what I want to be at a young age... I wished I could have pursued that path from the start.

 

Learning should be a joyous / spontaneous thing

 

- I have learnt far more out of school then I ever did in school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Apech]

 

That is true.

 

Education is optional ... don't agree with that ... enough stupid people already ....

 

I agree and I think this is a direct result of government (forced) education ^

 

People should be allowed to pursue their own path...

 

I knew what I want to be at a young age... I wished I could have pursued that path from the start.

 

Learning should be a joyous / spontaneous thing

 

- I have learnt far more out of school then I ever did in school.

 

 

 

 

Well I'm with you there. I had a quite good education but all that I value now I taught myself by reading and so on. I think your idea is ok in an ideal world but in reality people need education. Having said that where I live a lot of the older generation left school at 11 or 12 cos they had to work ... and they are all fantastic people ... so I've just changed my mind ... you are right after all

[thelerner]

Ahh! even in the first paragraph!

 

For any change in the constitution, a referendum is mandatory; for any change in a law, a referendum can be requested. Through referenda, citizens may challenge any law voted by federal parliament and through initiatives introduce amendments to the federal constitution, making Switzerland the closest state in the world to a direct democracy.

 

^ Yes!

 

Good stuff so far

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland

 

Such direct democracy cuts both ways. Look at California. Irresponsible people will vote themselves benefits, bread and circus, until the money's gone and they're bankrupt. Other times corporations have funneled billions into swaying public opinion there, often through fake grass root funding.

 

With power to vote there should be some level of understanding. Public money for well publicized non partisan policy papers that clearly lay out costs and benefits. I am often embarrassed by the crooks and low lifes we elect here in Illinois. I'm talking convicted criminals, people on death beds who'll give the job to there kids, literally mentally ill people, its a joke. The newspapers and media have failed to educate the public.