[HHC Study] Hua Hu Ching Chapter 2

[Aaron]

[Note- Although posted in the Taoist Discussions section of this forum, this thread is intended to be a chapter study of Chapter two of the Hua Hu Ching. With that in mind please restrict your responses to the chapter at hand. Any discussions regarding the validity, origins, or intent of the Hua Hu Ching should be directed to another thread and not this one. I welcome everyone to participate. Questions are welcome, as well as answers. Please follow the FAQ rules located in the Tao Te Ching subforum (changing Tao Te Ching to Hua Hu Ching where needed).]

Hua Hu Ching
Chapter 2


Men and women who wish to be aware of the whole truth should adopt the practices of the Integral Way. These time-honored disciplines calm the mind and bring one into harmony with all things. The first practice is the practice of undiscriminating virtue: take care of those who are deserving; also, and equally, take care of those who are not. When you extend your virtue in all directions without discriminating, your feet are firmly planted on the path that returns to the Tao.


Translated by Brian Browne Walker
http://brianbrownewa...m/hua-hu-ching/

Edited February 7, 2013 by SereneBlue

[Mal]

I've been waiting for this one

 

The first practice is the practice of undiscriminating virtue: take care of those who are deserving; also, and equally, take care of those who are not.

 

The ESSENTIAL practice, invaluable advice (I use to read this over and over when moderating TTB) If you only do one thing do this, it's often very challenging and you can often really question the value of attempting this.

 

But transforms your life and brings harmony and happiness IME.

[Marblehead]

But it is so freakin' hard to be undiscriminating!!!!!

[manitou]

As soon as I read this, it came to mind that this seems to be what the U.S. is struggling with now.....repubs vs. dems, or at least the very hidden and underlying thought:

 

Do we take care of persons we feel are not "deserving"? There is a strong and deep mindset that says what's mine is mine, I earned it, I don't want to give any of it away, and screw all those who can't cut the mustard.

 

Are we our brother's keeper? Can the two ever reconcile?

[dawei]

In Ni's version, you find out that the master was posed a question about 'virtue without discrimination' and how to guide 'those who do not practice virtue and selflessness'. And 'how men and women who are motivated to attain correct awareness of their true nature calm their minds'.

 

Ni uses the phrase: "One of virtue and wholeness takes care of those who practice virtue and selflessness'. He repeats this for those who do not practice it.

 

The master's finally comment goes: 'Any good person who is motivated to attain awareness of the whole truth should follow the Universal Integral Way to calm the mind and harmonize it with all aspects of life".

 

----

 

Reminds me of Chapter 27: Middle section:

 

Ni

One of natural, integral virtue is good at helping all people impartially.

Thus, no one is abandoned.

Because he is good at protecting and preserving all things,

nothing is ever thrown away.

This is called "embodying the light of the subtle truth."

Hence, the people on the Universal Integral Way are teachers of those off the Way.

 

 

Flowing Hands:

A good teacher will always stay with a bad student,

until his work is done.

If the student is not cared for, how can the teacher be respected.

To become a good teacher always use the Dao first

 

 

 

Liao:

Therefore the saint takes care of everyone and rejects none.

He takes care of all things and rejects nothing.

This is called "following the wisdom".

One who is good at helping others can be followed by those who do not know how.

And those that do not know how to help others are followers of those one who knows how.

Edited January 6, 2013 by dawei

[Mal]

There is a bit of a "trick" that can help with this one (although it's explained in the following verses) As there is no separateness how could one be more or less deserving than another? We do not need to make a value judgement, we just help without reservation.

 

[spiraltao]

In the Ni quotation, it says "Because he is good at protecting and preserving all things nothing is ever thrown away."

 

 

I could use some help with this particular sentence. I know it says all things, (is this the Tao?), does it mean he takes in ALL available knowledge from the Tao that he can.

 

 

I am very new at this, so don't laugh too hard.

[Aaron]

In the Ni quotation, it says "Because he is good at protecting and preserving all things nothing is ever thrown away."

 

 

I could use some help with this particular sentence. I know it says all things, (is this the Tao?), does it mean he takes in ALL available knowledge from the Tao that he can.

 

 

I am very new at this, so don't laugh too hard.

 

This is a good question. I think if one reads the text you see a recurring theme of helping everyone, regardless of who they are. In the same sense, one could see this passage as a reminder that it is because the sage understands the nature of things, he is able to put them to use. The rotten fruit can be used for fertilizer, the leg that broke off the chair can be used to build a coat wrack, etc. Remember, a lot of people will apply a mystic connotation to a lot of these phrases, but Lao Tzu firmly advocated frugality as one of the three most precious things a person can attain. Frugality, not just in personal interactions, but in "ALL" things.

 

Aaron

Edited January 9, 2013 by Aaron

[spiraltao]

Thanks for the insight, Aaron. That cleared alot of things up.

[Mal]

On the occasion of one such gathering, a wise disciple who was the prince of the country rose among the group and humbly saluted the master, saying, "Venerable master of the world, one who is virtuous without discrimination takes care of those who practice virtue and selflessness. One who is virtuous without discrimination also guides those who do not practice virtue and selflessness. Please instruct us. How should men and women who are motivated to attain awareness of their true nature calm their minds? What path should they follow in order to attune their minds harmoniously to all aspects of life?"

The old master said, "One of virtue and wholeness takes care of those who practice virtue and selflessness. One of virtue and wholeness also guides those who do not practice virtue and selflessness, as you said.

"Please listen well. Any good person who is motivated to attain awareness of the whole truth should follow the Universal Integral Way to clam the mind and harmonize it with all aspects of life."

The prince said gladly, "Most Venerable Master, we are ready to receive your precious guidance with great joy."

 

Ni's HHC 2

[流浪者]

I absolutely love this. Major finger towards altruistic love and abundance coming from that. This is the Way I know and love!!!

[Still_Waters]

On 1/6/2013 at 11:11 PM, Mal said:

There is a bit of a "trick" that can help with this one (although it's explained in the following verses) As there is no separateness how could one be more or less deserving than another? We do not need to make a value judgement, we just help without reservation.

 

I'm re-reading my Brian Walker translation which I started reading in 2010, and looking at the notes that I wrote at that time

 

This chapter triggered the practice for me to "just help without reservation" without discriminating regarding who are deserving and who are not deserving. This manifested in what I call "random acts of kindness" without looking back. I just follow my inner voice and, if it inspires me to helpful action, I just do it and then move on.

 

Last Sunday, on the subway, my friend Margie and I met a man our age with very good energy. He was a person of meager income who was a "busker" (sings on the subway for extra money to make ends meet) and who gave me his "entertainer card" with contact information after we had a very good conversation. I was planning to go to the opera Tosca at the Met and called him to ask if he had ever been to the opera. Since he was a musician, he indicated that he would love to go but had never been to an opera since it was not in his budget. I told him that, if I could get online RUSH tickets, I would treat him. Sure enough, I got orchestra RUSH tickets to the opera for $25 each (tickets which normally sold for $230 each) and treated him to a wonderful evening. When one does "random acts of kindness" without even considering who is "deserving" or "not deserving", the Universe somehow cooperates in the best interests of all. (I should add that, prior to going to the opera, his sister warned him to be careful since she couldn't imagine a virtual stranger taking her economically-challenged elderly brother to the opera. However, his intuitive sense of good vibes worked to his benefit and his sister afterwards said that he was fortunate to have met such an altruistic person who "helps others" without looking for something in return.)

 

This is a very good chapter which helped to develop a "random acts of kindness" practice for me and I now try to do at least one "random act of kindness" each day. Talk and theory must be translated into action or it is just talk.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Still_Waters