Question about Astragalus and CFS/ME

[yangluchan]

I was just wondering, I read some people say that you should take Astragalus when you have an infection, and others say you shouldn't, what is correct?

 

Got diagnosis from a TCM herbal doctor who prescribed herbal tonics for me:

 

"You have clear indications Internal Dampness due to Spleen Qi Deficiency, Kidney Deficiency (Yin and Yang), and Liver Qi Stagnation. I do not believe that you can handle Ancestor Treasure yet. You can consider 3 rounds (each bottle lasts almost 6 weeks, so 4.5 months) of White Tiger Return, Sage Mountain, and Free and Easy Wanderer formulas. These will address the sinusitis, dampness, Kidney, immune system and so on. Additionally, they will help begin to build Blood; the other world feeling and inability to concentrate are classic indications of Heart Blood Deficiency. They can be used together. We can re-evaluate after 4 months of herb use to fine tune if needed. We will probably want to get a little more aggressive with Kidney Yang tonics after this period, but let's wait and see how you progress."

 

 

I've gotten diagnosis of CFS/M.E. after an hard round of flu or something, immune system been shot for year basically, but past year after getting CFS/M.E. I have low immunity, low energy, dizziness and other-worldy feeling, feel like my head is in a "fog" sometimes and that I have to really concentrace to focus on something, and this of course only drains my energy further... Ejaculation really takes out my energy and leaves me with flu-like feeling and sore lower back, throat and knees for 4-5 days I guess. Also foggy-headed. Ejaculation problem has been there since probably 6-7 years back. Also get nightly emissions if I am extra weak and when I try to go longer without ejaculation. Also hair loss started early in me, I'm 30 now.

 

Thing is: Would it be good to use Astragalus with kidney tonics for me? As I've heard it they should not be used with infection, and I don't know if CFS/M.E. might still be a lingering infection deep down? I sometimes feel like something's breaking out, low-grade fever and joint aches etc., but could also be low immunity. Sometimes it just passes the next day too, so I've read it could also just be the kidney deficiency symptoms?

 

So how could I know if Astragalus could be taken or not? Want to really boost my immune system so my body doesn't succomb to any infection so easily, which again drains energy and feels like I never get to recover...

Edited January 7, 2013 by yangluchan

[mike 134]

dude u need to go to a real doc. ur having fever, that's serious and not some chronic fatigue thing, which is a bullshit condition. Read about chronic prostatitis. It seems to describe your condition somewhat better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_prostatitis/chronic_pelvic_pain_syndrome#Signs_and_symptoms

 

Dysuria, arthralgia (joint pain) , myalgia, unexplained fatigue, abdominal pain, constant burning pain in the penis, and frequency may all be present.

 

Some patients report low libido, sexual dysfunction and erectile difficulties.

[konchog uma]

why do you say chronic fatigue is a bullshit condition?

[C T]

OP,

 

Nutrition is a major key which unlocks optimal health. And to get optimal can be quite a complex route, so its not as simple as taking one or two supps in the hope of addressing overall well-being. Dont we all wish it was that easy....

 

For someone here to practically advice you, how about saying a bit more about your general diet? Have you tried other nutritional formulas, boosters, immunizers etc? Over what period? Any reports of effects from these? Etc,.

 

There have been very positive feedbacks on echinacea for boosting immuno-deficiency issues. Have you tried?

 

A diet which includes supergreens can also be very helpful, for eg Kale, brocoli, wheatgrass, spirulina, and barley grass supplements, together with manuka honey, authentic ginseng, montmorency cherries, curcumin, and garlic should also act on boosting optimal health.

Edited January 8, 2013 by C T

[Reed]

I've gotten diagnosis of CFS/M.E. after an hard round of flu or something, immune system been shot for year basically, but past year after getting CFS/M.E. I have low immunity, low energy, dizziness and other-worldy feeling, feel like my head is in a "fog" sometimes and that I have to really concentrace to focus on something, and this of course only drains my energy further... Ejaculation really takes out my energy and leaves me with flu-like feeling and sore lower back, throat and knees for 4-5 days I guess. Also foggy-headed. Ejaculation problem has been there since probably 6-7 years back. Also get nightly emissions if I am extra weak and when I try to go longer without ejaculation. Also hair loss started early in me, I'm 30 now.

 

Thing is: Would it be good to use Astragalus with kidney tonics for me? As I've heard it they should not be used with infection, and I don't know if CFS/M.E. might still be a lingering infection deep down? I sometimes feel like something's breaking out, low-grade fever and joint aches etc., but could also be low immunity. Sometimes it just passes the next day too, so I've read it could also just be the kidney deficiency symptoms?

 

I can relate to most of this. I'm still recovering from a bad episode of ME/FMS since I physically injured myself a few years ago although I've never been the same since I had glandular fever around 20 years ago.

 

I'm sure you've done this already but I'll mention it anyway: it's very important to rule out any other illnesses by getting blood tests and if necessary examination by eg. an orthopaedic surgeon for things like your joints.

 

 

OP,

 

Nutrition is a major key which unlocks optimal health. And to get optimal can be quite a complex route, so its not as simple as taking one or two supps in the hope of addressing overall well-being. Dont we all wish it was that easy....

 

For someone here to practically advice you, how about saying a bit more about your general diet? Have you tried other nutritional formulas, boosters, immunizers etc? Over what period? Any reports of effects from these? Etc,.

 

There have been very positive feedbacks on echinacea for boosting immuno-deficiency issues. Have you tried?

 

A diet which includes supergreens can also be very helpful, for eg Kale, brocoli, wheatgrass, spirulina, and barley grass supplements, together with manuka honey, authentic ginseng, montmorency cherries, curcumin, and garlic should also act on boosting optimal health.

 

Yes, nutrition is the biggest factor that has helped me and I'm just talking here about eating healthily. I reintroduced meat/fish/eggs after about 20 years which helped a lot. Also cutting loads of sugar out such as eating wholegrains, and also having healthy snacks between meals to help get rid of spaciness (which is basically like hypoglycaemia).

 

Even having one teabag/day of echinacea helps my immune system although you can't take it all the time and need to take breaks from it, I think. I still haven't looked at echinacea properly -- it's the next item on my list.

 

I'm afraid it's a long slow process, yangluchan. Good luck with it

Edited January 8, 2013 by Reed

[yangluchan]

Hi guys!

 

Thanks for all the answers!

 

First of all: Of course I've been to doctor's, I've probably taken every tests there is, the diagnosis I have is not one I've given myself but it has been given me by doctors. Because of chronically shut sinuses I even had surgery which didn't help on overall condition, but I guess at least it's opened my sinuses. It has lead to a lot of pain for several months though.

 

Chronic Fatigue certainly isn't a bullshit disease, I'm sorry to say, but unless you've been on the receiving end of it or know someone who has it you cannot say anything about it. That doctors are baffled by it's cause is not the same that it's bullshit. Norwegian doctors have actually had success in treating it with an immunosuppressive drug, showing it is a physical disease and not some "all in your head" disease, even though I'm not sure the best solution is to turn off the immune system...

 

Yes, I know about nutrition's role in it all, I've just recently switched to a Paleo diet and eat lots of healthy meats and fish, oils, nuts, tons of vegetables and some fruit/berries. Hoping that will help a lot too.

 

As for different immune boosters etc., yes, I've probably taken them all. Colostrum, garlic, oreganum oil, Citricidal etc. etc. Doesn't really feel like there is an infection present, but as I said, hard to know sometimes because some doctors believe a low-grade infection to be a cause of CFS/M.E.

 

Also done intravenous treatments with minerals and vitamins, reflexology, healing, acupuncture, osteopath etc. etc., some has had some effect but nothing has removed this condition.

 

I got the herbs as mentioned, and maybe I was unclear, but I'm not just looking to take Astragalus, I had a TCM herbal doctor prescribe just the right herbal blends for my condition.

 

The big problem is that she later said that the tonic one (which will strengthen my overall condition) does contain Astragalus which you should not take if you have an infection present. I know these will help my kidneys/adrenals, but it's so damning not to be able to take them...

 

She said it's hard to know if there is an infection present, but later I've learnt that it's primarily if there is a fever present you should not take Astragalus, so I'm trying to get an answer from a TCM herbalist on A) Can I take them even if I have CFS/ME and MIGHT have an infection present but no real symptoms and fever? and If not, how could I know whether or not I have an infection present from a TCM view?

 

I have no signs of an infection from a Western point of view, low CRP count etc.

 

Also have gone on several ronuds of antibiotics and prednisone against the sinuses before surgery, which I was very against but in the end you are willing to try everything in the hope something will help...

 

So first of all:

 

Thanks for all the advice, please just let it flow!

 

Second of all:

 

Hope someone trained in TCM herbal medicine will be able to answer me on this! If you know someone please reach out to them for me and ask? I'm desparate to know, it's so sad to have great herbs sitting here and not be able to take them...

 

Thanks guys!

[Reed]

It's very interesting reading your post. I've tried a lot of different things as well over the years with limited success -- diet is the most successful thing so far -- and I definitely agree that the causes of ME are a very physical thing.

 

I haven't tried TCM and don't know anybody who does it so I'm afraid I can't answer your questions

 

I will say one thing which you may well have thought of but I'll say it anyway: IME increasing intake of omega three even in food can lead to slight fever -- it doesn't necessarily just have to be high levels of omega-3. Taking vitamin E (several hundred IUs) gets rid of the fever in an hour or two (and also itching as well). Depending on what you've been increasing in your diet and if you've been getting more slight fevers recently, that might be one place to look.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Reed