Buteyko Method Breathing

[sean]

[Trunk]

Sean,

 

Read most of it, scanned through some of it.

 

Exploring the pauses, at the apex of exhale and/or inhale - is a classic method. Key is to relax into it.

 

Cool post.

 

Keith

[SheepishLord]

Used the device for a year. So did Max. Awesome. Anyone who wants to learn to breathe from the tan tien should get it. Some guys really work with it and one guy on RMAX can hold his breath for like 10 minutes or something like that! :twisted:

[sean]

Used the device for a year.  So did Max.  Awesome.  Anyone who wants to learn to breathe from the tan tien should get it.  Some guys really work with it and one guy on RMAX can hold his breath for like 10 minutes or something like that!  :twisted:

 

Ahhh... I assume you are speaking of Frolov's Device. It's not actually mentioned in the article I posted but it's often mentioned in the same breath (sorry ) as Buteyko in helping develop the same breathing style. Glad to hear you've had success with it. I've been meaning to buy one for awhile and I think I will. Since I quit smoking on New Years I've been sort of riding a wave of increased depression/anxiety and looking for ways of getting back in gear.

 

Sean.

[SheepishLord]

I think it will help you a lot. The hardest thing with quitting smoking is that the smoke gets released from the tissues--sometimes for years after quitting, and the smell carries memories that encourage you to indulge them by lighting up once again. :cry:

[BobD]

How does the Buteyko method sit alongside traditional deep belly breathing?

 

When I have read other books etc about the method they all talk about "chronic overbreathing" and how people should breathe in small sips (ie not breathe deeply at all, using shallow breathing). This has always seemed to contradict the deep breathing from the tan tien that I try to follow during normal day to day breathing.

 

I have noticed that my nose (which is normally quite stuffy) does clear a bit if I increase the pauses between in- and ex-halations and vice versa, but I have always been unsure about how the two styles fit together.

 

Is it just a case of still deep breathing from the tan tien, but including long pauses at either end of the cycle (ie ignore the shallow breathing part)?

 

Thanks Sean for bringing up a topic I have been meaning to ask for advice on previously anyway

[sean]

How does the Buteyko method sit alongside traditional deep belly breathing?  

 

When I have read other books etc about the method they all talk about "chronic overbreathing" and how people should breathe in small sips (ie not breathe deeply at all, using shallow breathing). This has always seemed to contradict the deep breathing from the tan tien that I try to follow during normal day to day breathing.  

 

I have noticed that my nose (which is normally quite stuffy) does clear a bit if I increase the pauses between in- and ex-halations and vice versa, but I have always been unsure about how the two styles fit together.

 

Is it just a case of still deep breathing from the tan tien, but including long pauses at either end of the cycle (ie ignore the shallow breathing part)?

 

Thanks Sean for bringing up a topic I have been meaning to ask for advice on previously anyway  

 

Well if I am understanding the Butekyo perspective, it's not necessarily wrong to breathe deeply. I think Butekyo is just a way of addressing and correcting a common type of "problem breathing". If your natural breathing patterns are consistently on the verge of hyperventilation, then I would think sessions of deep breathing would just amplify the existing imbalance. On the other hand, once you've brought your breathing into proper balance, a deep inhale would likely to be naturally followed by a deep long exhale and an appropriate pause.

 

It's interesting to look at the Butekyo method in light of Winn's "Shen theory". If you are not familiar with it, the idea is that each of the Five Organs has an innate Intelligence and that our microcosmic Self is actually the relationship between them. The Lung Spirit, "Po", is the only Intelligence directly connected with the outer environment. It takes in oxygen from the outside world and processes it's Chi into useable energy. The imbalanced Po spirit happens to be the most selfish, materialistic and afraid of death. Sound like modern society? So in this sense, the obsessive-inhale reflects our addiction to me, to consumption, to more.. So the Butekyo method seems like a great way to refine your ability to more efficiently absorb Chi from available oxygen. In so doing perhaps we become less addicted to the intake and more centered and sustained by the abundance of inner Chi we typically neglect. Thus promoting health.

[BobD]

Thanks Sean.

 

The obsessive inhalations of modern breathing is something I have come across in both Winn's and Dennis Lewis' material, and I do try to ensure that I focus on exhalation for a more balanced breath, and that I actually complete the exhale.

 

Hey, this Buteyko breathing I've been doing though is like an instant cure for most nasal congestion. Within 3-5 minutes of this breathing protocol I can feel my passages clear right up.

 

How long does the decongestion last for after you stop? I find that my nose closes up quite quickly, which must mean I'm doing something wrong!

 

Could you give a quick outline of how you apply the protocol?

 

Cheers

[sean]

How long does the decongestion last for after you stop? I find that my nose closes up quite quickly, which must mean I'm doing something wrong!

 

Could you give a quick outline of how you apply the protocol?

Sometimes my nose closes up after doing Buteyko breathing; like you said, sometimes even shortly afterward. Since I've been paying attention more to my breath, I catch myself holding my breath on the inhale very frequently throughout the day. Especially when I'm stressed. So at this point I'm interpreting congestion to be a result of excess stress exacerbating already poor breathing patterns. So the symptoms subside when I consciously do a Buteyko session. But once I return to involuntary breathing, my dysfunctional breathing patterns bring back the congestion symptoms sooner or later.

 

Here's how I apply the protocol:

 

Stand erect and on the exhale lean forward a bit, rolling your shoulders forward, curling up your pelvis and pulling up on your diaphragm. Count until it the discomfort suddenly starts to rapidly increase. Subtract a second or two from that number and use that for the rest of your session that day. On the inhale, rapidly stand up straight, rolling shoulders back, relaxing your pelvis into a subtle backward arch and let go of your diaphragm. The released tension from having your diaphgram pulled up will have it drop and, along with the movement, automatically suck in a passive inhale. In other words, you don't need to actually inhale, the relaxation of your diaphragm and the upward movement of your body will suck in a breath for you. Without pause, immediatly contract back into the active exhale and hold.

 

I do 5-10 reps of these and around 10 sets.

 

In between reps do a very relaxed, looser version of the same thing but only hold the exhale for 1/4 or 1/3 of the time you've established for your main reps. I find this an important step to avoid switching to gasping/holding in between reps. Do these relaxed reps until your system has calmed down and it's completely natural and easy. Then start a new aggressive set.

 

Let us know what your experiences are. You should start a Training Log btw.

 

 

Sean.

[BobD]

Here's how I apply the protocol:....

 

Interesting. I like the part about the passive inhale caused by the sudden relaxation of the diaphragm. I follow normal belly breathing practices of the diaphragm (sheesh, thats a hard word to make sure you spell right each time!) pushing down on inhale but hadn't applied it in this dynamic tension/relaxation way during Buteyko breathing.

 

I'lll give that a go. As with many of my practices, I find that I do most Buteyko breathing when driving (as it is often the only "free" time I can be sure of during my day), so the leaning and rolling may not be possible.

 

Let us know what your experiences are. You should start a Training Log btw.

 

Yeah, I have thought about it, but I know that it would mostly be of the form "missed most of my practices today again", "got up too late to do my routines" and so on. Plus with my current level of accomplishment and dedication I don't think it would make very interesting reading anyway

. About the only constant part of my daily routine these days is the 5 Tibetans, which I have actually managed to do everyday (and I really do mean every day) since just before Christmas. That must be a record for me in terms of number of consecutive days of any practice (I am such a lamer!)

 

Anyway, thanks again for the info.

[spyrelx]

If anyone has any more instructional information on Buteyko breathing please post it or send it to me. I've been looking to start up a breathing practice for a while and I'm intrigued by what I've read, but I don't want to drop the $500 on a lesson or, at least right now, the $100 on the device.

 

Anyone who's done the method or used the device, I'd love to hear what you think it did or didn't do for you.

 

Thanks

[sean]

Interesting. I like the part about the passive inhale caused by the sudden relaxation of the diaphragm. I follow normal belly breathing practices of the diaphragm (sheesh, thats a hard word to make sure you spell right each time!) pushing down on inhale but hadn't applied it in this dynamic tension/relaxation way during Buteyko breathing.

I learned that from Scott Sonnon's "Be Breathed" program. It's part of his "Performance Breathing" protocol. Pretty interesting.

 

Yeah, I have thought about it, but I know that it would mostly be of the form "missed most of my practices today again", "got up too late to do my routines" and so on. Plus with my current level of accomplishment and dedication I don't think it would make very interesting reading anyway

.

That's exactly how I felt when I first started a training journal here. But eventually it started to wear on me. "I set up a discussion forum for this stuff but I'm not even doing anything? WTF?" Finally just having a blog here that never got updated and having that in my face every day got me to commit to doing some cultivation and posting about it more frequently. Still a pretty boring journal, but it keeps me more committed.

 

About the only constant part of my daily routine these days is the 5 Tibetans, which I have actually managed to do everyday (and I really do mean every day) since just before Christmas. That must be a record for me in terms of number of consecutive days of any practice (I am such a lamer!)

Not lame at all. Actually pretty damn impressive. Just think about the percentage of people in the world that just come home from work and watch the game and drink beers and go to sleep. That's what I do when I feel depressed about how friggin lazy I am.

 

Hey, pm your address and I'll let you borrow "The Five Minute Miracle" ... interestingly enough, it's an integration of the Five Tibetans with Scott Sonnon's "Be Breathed". Good shit.

 

Sean.

[BobD]

Finally just having a blog here that never got updated and having that in my face every day got me to commit to doing some cultivation and posting about it more frequently. Still a pretty boring journal, but it keeps me more committed.

 

Yeah, I hadn't thought about it that way before. You never know, it might work! I'll give it some thought and maybe start one up, even if it does only function as a naggy little reminder to me. Your log is hardly boring, what with the, er, wide range of topics it has developed recently :shock:

 

Just think about the percentage of people in the world that just come home from work and watch the game and drink beers and go to sleep. That's what I do when I feel depressed about how friggin lazy I am.

 

True. That works as long as you don't then think about everyone else here. My head spins just reading some of the logs here.

 

Hey, pm your address and I'll let you borrow "The Five Minute Miracle" ... interestingly enough,  it's an integration of the Five Tibetans with Scott Sonnon's "Be Breathed". Good shit.

 

Great, thanks.

 

Cheers

[BobD]

Been trying this method again for a quite a few days now, mainly with the focus of trying to keep my nose clear and easy to breathe.

 

The interesting thing is, you said

 

Sometimes my nose closes up after doing Buteyko breathing; like you said, sometimes even shortly afterward. Since I've been paying attention more to my breath, I catch myself holding my breath on the inhale very frequently throughout the day. Especially when I'm stressed. So at this point I'm interpreting congestion to be a result of excess stress exacerbating already poor breathing patterns. So the symptoms subside when I consciously do a Buteyko session. But once I return to involuntary breathing, my dysfunctional breathing patterns bring back the congestion symptoms sooner or later.

 

whereas I seem to have better results with clearing my nose when I do hold after the inhale, rather than after the exhale. I know that this isn't what the B method teaches, and that its closer to Nine Bottle Breathing. Not sure what this signifies, if anything

 

I still feel that I get some benfits from the B method, sharper mental focus, a more awake feeling (good in the mornings), but it doesn't seem to have an impact on my nose.

 

Something for me to continue playing with I think, to decide which of the two practices suits me more.

[三江源]

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Edited March 22, 2015 by 三江源

[sean]

sean, I wondered if you bought the frolov device and how you got on with it if so.

Nope, sorry, no experience with the Frolov. You may want to try to get Plato in here, I am pretty sure he has experience with it. I don't even play with Buteyko breathing so much these days.

[affenbrot]

sean, I wondered if you bought the frolov device and how you got on with it if so.

Or anybody else have any info to share?

I'm wondering if there is a lot of benefit to be gained from using the device over using the buteyko method described in the opening piece.

I'm investigating this in particular regard to allergic asthma, which is sometimes considered to be 'outside' the conventional breathing remedies... but I notice here that there is an overlap described, where an allergic response is said to die down, once the breathing has been modified.

chicken/egg

 

egg/chicken

 

hi cat, i used the device a short while. What I liked the most was the bubbling sound it produced

when blowing out, gave me this nice Jaques-Yves Cousteau feeling. the snorkeling sucking sound on the inhale was nicely weird also. The sound helped a lot to focus in fact.

I very soon reached breathing cycles of 1/minute over the duration of 15 minutes or so. Which i found

quite astonishing. these long breathing cycles held me in a state of deep meditative blankness - much like

underwater. Could be I proceeded to quick though - what I noticed after about two weeks was a growing

and building up tension of my whole breathing apparatus, especially after the practice, and staying ever

longer through the day. I guess it just added tension that already was there, I should have

taken care of first relaxing and freeing the diaphragm, the rip cage and so on and maybe apply the

technique slower and more carefully.

 

I think you can obtain good results with buteyko alone without that frolov thing (although it was kind of fun).

 

 

affenbrot

[三江源]

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Edited March 22, 2015 by 三江源

[Wanderer]

Hi gang, I found an interesting article on Frolov that also mentions Buyteko.

 

http://www.intellectbreathing.com/history....65f8af4c4dd47c2

Edited October 11, 2006 by Wanderer

[三江源]

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Edited March 22, 2015 by 三江源

[affenbrot]

Ok So I am now in possession of affenbrot's frolov device, thanks to Harry carrying it to London. And thanks to affenbrot for loaning it.

 

I am looking at the intellect breathing site and all around, for instructions.

 

So far I am not finding any explicit instructions.

 

I am imagining the instructions are pretty straightforward. Affenbrot, or anyone, do you remember the procedure enough to outline it here?

 

I want to start bubbling and snorkelling but could do without the tension buid up that affenbrot experienced..

 

have you seen these?:

hypoxic regimen

preperation

[三江源]

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Edited March 22, 2015 by 三江源

[Lozen]

What's the best Buteyko book/video/article/website/combo of above?

[三江源]

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Edited March 22, 2015 by 三江源