Some Vedanta traps I've come across....

[ॐDominicusॐ]

1. There is no One here and there's nothing you can do.

 

Sure that's the view for a person who has realized the Absolute and is sitting in that perspective. While everyone else is trying to make sense of this scratching their heads. There actually are many things that can be done that help with all this Advaita business. Awareness aware of itself, mindfulness, pushing away all thinking and the thinker of thoughts, koans, etc etc.

 

2. You are Awareness.

 

I've come across many books and youtube vids of Vedanta "guru's" who basically show, tell, or teach you how to get to Awareness, or realize Awareness prior to the mind. They then stop there and that's it. Yet that's not the end of the road. Awareness eventually drops down a Nadi vertically, and falls into the heart (sinoatrial node 2 digits to your right from the center of the chest), where Awareness dissolves into the One.

 

3. The constant search, listening, reading of Vedanta knowledge.

 

This is also a trap. The mind for years wanting to get it's grips on as many videos, books, retreats as possible that has to do with this subject. It's a trap. Eventually the mind hits a saturation point where it knows everything "Vedanta" and all the newest teacher's books become cyclically repetitive.

 

At this point, the search is let go of, and Awareness, seeing, establishing, practice should be going on. The mind saying, "I want realize any of this stuff unless I ....go to that retreat, listen to this vid, podcast, new book, etc" All illusions, all traps.

 

 

There are various others and if you'd like to post them here, by all means go for it.

 

Just wanted to add, personally for myself, after having read the list of books I'm about to post, I came to a place of no more questions, no more searching, and just sitting practice, being, resting, insights, etc...

 

I Am That and Ultimate Medicine by Nisargadatta

Be As You Are by Ramana Maharshi

Science of Soul by Shri Yogeshwaranand Parmahans:

http://atma-vijnana.narod.ru/SCSOU_TX.htm

Human Buddha by Anadi (Aziz Kristof)

The Most Direct Means To Eternal Bliss

Various random Nonduality pointers and Zen Koans that can be found all around the net and just sitting with them

 

All those above allowed a saturation point, being done with the search, resting in Being and the Now, and tons of experiences, insights, realizations that came with practice

[Boy]

...

Edited February 9, 2013 by Boy

[gatito]

Consciousness/Awareness is that which is reading these words.

 

It is the subject of all objects and it has no qualities (except SatChitAnanda).

 

It cannot drop into the heart and dissolve into One.

 

It is Self, Atman, Brahman, God, The Tao, etc. <full stop> LOL

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Consciousness/Awareness is that which is reading these words.

 

It is the subject of all objects and it has no qualities (except SatChitAnanda).

 

It cannot drop into the heart and dissolve into One.

 

It is Self, Atman, Brahman, God, The Tao, etc. <full stop> LOL

Tell that to an average Joe, and they'll look at you like your a crazy madman speaking chinese.

 

I hear where you are coming from, and sure from that perspective, it is that way ...but there are ways to go from nowhere to now here ...as guru pitka put it so nicely.

 

In my experience, there is a Subjective Awareness that is Spacious and located in the Head, it is prior to Ego/Mind/Thinker of thoughts.

 

In Surrender/Letting go ...this Subject, drops down vertically into the One, where there is no more Subject. because there is only the One and nobody there to experience it. This vertical drop was discussed by Ramana and Adi Da, amongst various others as well.

 

What happens, is that to many, the One is realized in an Instant, and the intellect fails to comprehend the speed and details of what has happened and how..... and so we end up with statements such as yours ...which by the way is true, but the average mind can't necessarily do anything with it (also a point, transcend the mind) .....

 

...for me it was a Koan ....15 minutes of wrestling with it, and then a shift from Mind/thinker of thoughts, to Observer of Ego, then from Observer, to Source of Observer ....merged into Source. Many other sign posts along the way, in particular sub-conscious spring cleaning ...ever ongoing, various energetic channels opening up throughout the body ....it's so much more than can be said really

[Jeff]

Thanks for sharing. In merging to source, do you also find connection/merging with people/beings? A shared "presence"?

 

Best, Jeff

 

[gatito]

<snip>

 

In my experience, there is a Subjective Awareness that is Spacious and located in the Head, it is prior to Ego/Mind/Thinker of thoughts.

 

In Surrender/Letting go ...this Subject, drops down vertically into the One, where there is no more Subject. because there is only the One and nobody there to experience it. This vertical drop was discussed by Ramana and Adi Da, amongst various others as well.

 

<snip>

 

Consciousness is not located in space-time nor does it move

 

You seem to be referring to a subtle object here

 

You also seem to have stumbled across an induction method for Yoga Nidra - you have been very lucky!

[Apech]

Dominicus ...how did you get those Om signs in your screen name ... I am deeply jealous (which is no doubt a trap)

[gatito]

[Boy]

...

Edited February 9, 2013 by Boy

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Consciousness is not located in space-time nor does it move

 

You seem to be referring to a subtle object here

 

You also seem to have stumbled across an induction method for Yoga Nidra - you have been very lucky!

Yes Consciousness is all pervading and Non-Local ....Imagine if you took a tiny piece of Infinite Consciousness and entrapped it in a physical body. Ultimately it is still connected to the rest, while at the same time maintaining its "tiny pieceness" paradoxically speaking.

 

Pure Subjectiveness I refer to is the Inner Observer ...which is subject not Object. It initially has a location and presence, and upon resting as that, expands and finds the source of itself...

 

Let me look into to this Yoga Nidra.... I remember studying a little of it many years ago

Thanks for sharing. In merging to source, do you also find connection/merging with people/beings? A shared "presence"?

 

Best, Jeff

 

Yes, Everything is One thing, and there is no me anywhere ....all beings are One, as is everything. There's no difference between a chair or a fly or a human or a dog ....it's like all perspectives and no perspectives at Once

 

So there is no subjective awareness! ;-) This still sounds very yogic, but also ever so slightly analogous to (the direct path's?) "enlightenment leading to self realization". Kevala samadhi stabilizing into sahaja (nirvikalpa) samadhi. Can you relate to this comparison?

Let me reinvestigate the Samadhi's to have context. If I recall, was it Wallace that described them, possibly Watts? Got google anyway, will get back on that.

 

But to leave some food to snack on, I think it's all the same anyway, just different cultures, words, languages all speaking about the same things. Granted I'm sure many paths only go so far.

 

In my case, I read a Koan, wrestled with it for 15 minutes, then in a split second instant, I shifted into the Observer and saw that the thinker of thoughts is Object, not subject. This brought a HUGE WAVE of relief (to make a long story short, since a kid, I never felt right about being here, and it was because the ego is artificial) ...so with this relief, I took a sigh of relief and relaxed, let go ...and in that relaxing, letting go ....Me as Subject/Observer ...dropped deep down into the chest area where I vanished, and there was a Oneness there ...with no me anywhere in it....like a drop of water I vanquished in the ocean.

 

Well to the mind this was "It!!!" ...Soon as the mind proclaimed ..."This is It!!!!" There was a re-solidification of the Subject/Observer back in the head area, and a mind to make retrospect comments about what just happened.

 

Regardless, I saw that he Observer/Awareness is prior to the ego/mind, and that the Oneness is prior to the Observer/Awareness.

 

I went on to lose these states with the mind spending a couple years trying to play catch up in understanding all this. Regardless, years later I was with a Advaita admirer who was totally sitting in Awareness prior to ego/mind, and he just sort of got close to me to tell me something, and in that closeness, his Awareness was like a candle, lighting mine back up re-establishing the Observer state in me..... in was interesting to see that this could happen.

 

I would then go on to see that the Ego/Mind has it's source in the Heart, and when deep sleep happens, is where it goes to hide (in a sense), then upon waking, it come out of the heart, up through a Nadi, and take's it's place in the head where it's constantly projecting illusion over reality. By holding on to a single thought, you can follow, as the Observer, the thought into it's source, which coincidentally the One is there as well, and this can also completely extinguish the ego/mind ...I've had times where I needed to be shaken out of this state to eat and dispel fluids by others.

 

Ok so I found this:

Ramana Maharshi :The immersion of the mind in the Self, but without its destruction, is kevala nirvikalpa samadhi. In this state one is not free from vasanas and so one does not therefore attain mukti. Only after the vasanas have been destroyed can one attain liberation.

Yes I've seen this to be the case. Being dissolved in the One, brings eventual permanent stabilization of that state, and eventually the Vasanas are no more, as all is seen as Illusion, including the body.

Ramana Maharshi : Holding on to the supreme state is samadhi. When it is with effort due to mental disturbances, it is savikalpa. When these disturbances are absent, it is nirvikalpa. Remaining permanently in the primal state without effort is sahaja.

Ok ....so still much more to go "Says the mind which associates itself with the kevala state".....

[Jeff]

 

Yes, Everything is One thing, and there is no me anywhere ....all beings are One, as is everything. There's no difference between a chair or a fly or a human or a dog ....it's like all perspectives and no perspectives at Once

 

 

Does that mean that you can "change" your perspective and "be" or view as another human or a dog or a fly? How is there no difference?

 

Thanks, Jeff

[gatito]

Yes Consciousness is all pervading and Non-Local ....Imagine if you took a tiny piece of Infinite Consciousness and entrapped it in a physical body. Ultimately it is still connected to the rest, while at the same time maintaining its "tiny pieceness" paradoxically speaking.

 

Pure Subjectiveness I refer to is the Inner Observer ...which is subject not Object. It initially has a location and presence, and upon resting as that, expands and finds the source of itself...

 

Let me look into to this Yoga Nidra.... I remember studying a little of it many years ago

 

Interesting concepts but they don't appear to be Advaita

 

Consciousness isn't trapped inside a body - the body appears in Consciousness - which is always unlimited and cannot therefore expand - it is the sourceless source

[gatito]

So there is no subjective awareness! ;-) This still sounds very yogic, but also ever so slightly analogous to (the direct path's?) "enlightenment leading to self realization". Kevala samadhi stabilizing into sahaja (nirvikalpa) samadhi. Can you relate to this comparison?

 

My understanding of the Direct Path and the sanskrit terms is slightly different:-

 

Nirvikalpa samadhi (enlightenment) is Consciousness knowing itself in the absence of objects it stabillises (or appears to ) into:-

 

Sahaja samadhi (Self-realisation/Liberation) - Consciousness knowing itself in the presence of objects

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Does that mean that you can "change" your perspective and "be" or view as another human or a dog or a fly? How is there no difference?

 

Thanks, Jeff

Yes, perspective changes from pure subjectivity with mind, or no mind, or merging with One, where everything is One thing, also allowing empathic perspectives of everything, fly, another person, dog, etc ...but it's everything at the same time, yet crystal clearity.

Interesting concepts but they don't appear to be Advaita

 

Consciousness isn't trapped inside a body - the body appears in Consciousness - which is always unlimited and cannot therefore expand - it is the sourceless source

Well, it's both for me, at this point, and sometimes just one, or the other. At times, I am pure subjectivity, connected to a physical body, sometime floating outside of it and seeing other realms, and sometimes, when merged in the One, I am no more and the physical body is in the One and not apart from it.... ...The One however, is the primal building block foundation that underlies all, it's always there no matter what..... it's been stages for me, but I get what your saying ...in the One (permanent stabilization) ...your above quote stands

My understanding of the Direct Path and the sanskrit terms is slightly different:-

 

Nirvikalpa samadhi (enlightenment) is Consciousness knowing itself in the absence of objects it stabillises (or appears to ) into:-

 

Sahaja samadhi (Self-realisation/Liberation) - Consciousness knowing itself in the presence of objects

What about consciousness knowing itself in both the absence and presence of objects simultaneously?

 

Also wanted to add the story of Adi Sankara.... basically made Vedanta popular/re-established we can say. He was debating various others on philosophy, eventually a woman debated him on sex, but he did not know that much about sex because he was living celebate ....so anyway, he left his body, and took up the body of a kind who had just recently passed away, reanimating the kings body and going back to the castle where he slept with the various harems, gaining the sexual experiences necessary to be able to come back to his own body to properly debate the original woman about sex.

 

If the story is true, then there would appear to be a subjective consciousness, and also it's source

[gatito]

<snip>

Well, it's both for me, at this point, and sometimes just one, or the other. At times, I am pure subjectivity, connected to a physical body, sometime floating outside of it and seeing other realms, and sometimes, when merged in the One, I am no more and the physical body is in the One and not apart from it.... ...The One however, is the primal building block foundation that underlies all, it's always there no matter what..... it's been stages for me, but I get what your saying ...in the One (permanent stabilization) ...your above quote stands

 

Yes, permanent stabilization is sahaja samadhi - the only reliable benchmark for which is peaceful happiness (independent of objective phenomena).

 

What about consciousness knowing itself in both the absence and presence of objects simultaneously?

 

That's sahaja samadhi again

 

Also wanted to add the story of Adi Sankara.... basically made Vedanta popular/re-established we can say. He was debating various others on philosophy, eventually a woman debated him on sex, but he did not know that much about sex because he was living celebate ....so anyway, he left his body, and took up the body of a kind who had just recently passed away, reanimating the kings body and going back to the castle where he slept with the various harems, gaining the sexual experiences necessary to be able to come back to his own body to properly debate the original woman about sex.

 

If the story is true, then there would appear to be a subjective consciousness, and also it's source

 

I prefer to rely on my own direct experience rather than on stories

[Jeff]

Hi Dominicus,

 

I have a few friends who seem to be stuck in the "I am awareness/consciousness" state and not able to percieve beyond to "integration of oneness". Do you have any suggestions as to how to point it out or show them? For many, it seems to be a very steadfast belief and my current batting average is pretty low.

 

Thanks, Jeff

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Hi Dominicus,

 

I have a few friends who seem to be stuck in the "I am awareness/consciousness" state and not able to percieve beyond to "integration of oneness". Do you have any suggestions as to how to point it out or show them? For many, it seems to be a very steadfast belief and my current batting average is pretty low.

 

Thanks, Jeff

Is this the Awareness/center of consciousness state that is prior to the Mind? As in what Neo-Advaita points to and ends there correct?

 

I ask cause there so many various stages that revolve around the Awareness/Observer realized state. As in there can remain long periods of still shifting between that state and mind/ego. Or more one and less the other, and so many degrees between the two.

 

If Awareness/Observer state is fully stabilized and ego/mind is permanently seen as not I, there are various ways to dissolve into the One.

 

Attaching Awareness/Observer through concentration to the thought 'I' ...the root of Ego and not letting it go for hours at a time, will allow the Observer to follow the I thought down into it's source through the Atma Nadi.

 

Also Net Neti .....this will also open up the Atma Nadi and allow the Observer to fall into the One. This one is tricky though because when doing Not this, Not this ...it is also imoprtant to let go of the one doing the Neti Neti ...and just remaing as what is when all is let go of pushed away as not this. There are also various sign posts along the way with just this as well. For example one morning you wake up, and actually are awake prior to the mind/ego having taken it's place in the head ...so there is just crystal clear Awareness with no intellectual knowing/discerning ...and then witnessing the ego/mind come in to the seen to start to label and project over everything.

 

Further on down the line, it takes the ego/construct a very long time to "act". All sign posts ...which eventually lead the observer to fall down through Atma Nadi.

 

Surrender/letting Go is HUGE!!!!!! Also has sign posts along the way til eventually, swoosh down the nadi until there is no more you.

 

Breathing into Dan Tian and middle Dan Tian also balances out and provides aspects of surrender away from the head. When I first realized self as Awareness/Observer, I went 2 weeks no sleep. Th energetic quality was through the roof ..I could literally climb mountains with infinite energy and was getting hit on by so many women (while in a celebacy vow of all times go figure!!! Ha!!!!).... Well eventually it was too much and the body needed rest ...

 

.....So there was a need to ground Awareness/Observer into the dan tians.

 

The Observer/Awareness becomes like a lamp/torch for the rest of going deep within. It illuminates the sub-structures of the sub-consciouss and its source. There are various lights that are int he dan tians as well. They are also like vortexes and can pull awareness magnetically into them.

 

Also a tunnel at the top of the Crown Chakra that shoots up into space and one in the back of the head that seems to go very very far. Soooooo many details ...but in the ONE is where home is....... In the One, merged there, everything else begins to change (body, mnd/ego/subconscious, channels, awareness, all starts to follow changes according to the will of the One, the clarity, vastness, infinity of it .....

 

I prefer to rely on my own direct experience rather than on stories

I Hear ya!!!! That's what happened when I popped out of the body. I was like "Holy crap" I didn't believe any of this was even possible really, as I was well on my way completely structured around the belief that the end goal/realization of Vedanta was it .... yet along the way, all these detailed sign posts that I was never told about begin to pop given very detailed insights into the nature of reality and psychology..... furthermore ....doing research on signposts along the way, I've found that other's have also dittoed my experiences as well, so for the most part (though with discernment in the possibility of all things being illusory in nature) various sign posts and experiences have been legit.

 

I was surprised to experience the Atma NAdi as well, because I never really had views on Nadi's because I cam from Christian Mysticism, to Zen, to Dzogchen, to Vedanta ....so some of those may have mentioned them, but to me blah ...didn't matter ..I wanted the gold, enlightenment, the highest peak ..so to experience certain Nadi's was like ..."Ok so these things do exist"...

 

Ok enough words for now .... Language is so strange isn't it....... a funny thing..... Using sounds and mental symbols to communicate aspects of reality.... Ha!

[3bob]

Hello ॐDominicusॐ

 

When you said,

"Surrender/letting Go is HUGE!!!!!! Also has sign posts along the way til eventually, swoosh down the nadi until there is no more you"

 

That translates or interprets to me that the mentally or emotionally constructed or limited "you" which acts as a veil over the true you is no longer in power; thus the true you/us which never really left Itself nor went anywhwere and which is not dependent upon nadis or pranas or such things meets Itself! (since all other such things, which It is not (or neti, neti) spring from It, as is very well alluded to in the Upanishads.

 

Om

[Boy]

...

Edited February 9, 2013 by Boy

[gatito]

Dominicus: Very nice. Yoga. You certainly appear to be doing yourself a disservice by adding that subjective awareness of yours to the mix. It's crystal clear that you've seen the truth, but.. you didn't really get it, did you? ;-) If your mind needs help with the "spring-cleaning", try writing James Swartz an email. Be nice and read his book first!

 

gatito: Ah, the technically correct pairing of opposites would be savikalpa/nirvikalpa and kevala/sahaja. In analysis or application your understanding works perfectly fine.

 

Cheeky!!!

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Dominicus: Very nice. Yoga. You certainly appear to be doing yourself a disservice by adding that subjective awareness of yours to the mix.

It really wasn't up to me though. During wrestling with a Zen koan, this was the first state to shift into, away from mind/ego and into pure Observer/Awareness/Center of subjectivity, like a point int he middle of the head. I've also remembered pre-existing and discussing with 3 other "Units of Awareness" having to come here to "earth" to be "born" into a body.

 

Whether or not that memory is illusion, is a tough one, as it came from a place very deep within prior to the ego/mind. This could be taken to a whole other extent/debate on the existence of an individual soul, unit of consciousness, divine spark, ....cold go on for days.

It’s crystal clear that you’ve seen the truth, but.. you didn’t really get it, did you? ;-)

Ha!!!! There was no one there to get anything, or in that state, there is no me. "Get" would be the mind trying to wrap itself around some ineffable business here ....it's tough talking about this stuff, that's for sure

If your mind needs help with the "spring-cleaning", try writing James Swartz an email. Be nice and read his book first!

Thanks for the tip ...will check the guy out. However, the process is already well on its way and ongoing.... Will see what Swartz says. Is there a specific title?

 

 

That translates or interprets to me that the mentally or emotionally constructed or limited "you" which acts as a veil over the true you is no longer in power; thus the true you/us which never really left Itself nor went anywhwere and which is not dependent upon nadis or pranas or such things meets Itself! (since all other such things, which It is not (or neti, neti) spring from It, as is very well alluded to in the Upanishads.

I can describe it in 3 aspects.

The ego/mind is 1.

The Observer/Awareness/Subjectivity of the ego mind is 2

The Observer vertically falling down a Nadi into the chest area and disappearing into an ocean of Oneness is 3.

 

This same Nadi is also what that whole ego/mind/conscious/sub-conscious structure uses during deep sleep and waking ...it is the source of thought.

 

I think my #2, is the whole neo-advaita stage, and where most of them leave off at. However, I knew nothing of advaita when this happened, and was studying some Koans. The shift from mind to Observer happened during the koan wrestling

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Dominicus

I must say I am sure enjoying your posts. I am grateful that you are sharing your experiences. So many things you have said resonate with me deeply and experientially. The hole at the top of the head leading to space.. The tube going out of the back of the head (yes it is very long.. but if you pursue it, you do end up in outer space).. The collapse of the substrate consciousness down into the heart... and more.. Thank you. Not sure how you ended up posting this in a vedanta forum, but I am grateful just the same..

 

I thought I'd share my latest experience.

 

About 5 or six months ago I noticed that while gazing out directly through the eyes and then reversing my point of view back into "looking into the vision stream at the watcher", I noticed that I could see light in there. It looked like a horizon of light-pink/white/light-blue clouds. It was always unmoving but most definately present. As the months went by I would focus on this area, backwards into my gaze but without any event. I thought perhaps I was actually looking back into the visual cortex of the brain so it didn't really sound like it was spiritually significant. However, that changed after learning about the Kati Crystal Secret Channel (or the atma nadi)..

 

Last week, I decided to investigate it. I sat for a 1 hour session and just focused on going backwards into the visual line. At first, it was a little hard to maintain a clear focus on the light-scene, as is normal when starting out a meditation session. However, after about 40 minutes, I succeeded in continual sustained focus of attention on it (after the body dropped off).

 

All of a sudden I found myself in a scene where I was just a point of view and the point of view was staring at a large cloud bank of light-pink light-blue clouds. I thought to myself "This feels familiar". Then it started to come back to me. This was a place where I existed before I was born. I just knew it to be true. I remembered being stuck there for a very long time, all alone. I remembered existing there, waiting for something or someone to let me out. In that place, I remember thinking that the cloud bank was actually a world or a plane and if I could only get into it, or over it I would have a change of scenery, a new life.

 

I popped out of the meditation and contemplated the experience.. I went back into that place once again and looked around. I could only look up or sideways.. Yes, I remembered. It was a place where I existed before I was born. I knew that but I had forgotten about it. Now I remember again. It is uncanny.

 

Have you ever tried to go backwards into your still gazing eyes into the scenery that is looking out? If so, did anything happen?

 

Much appreciation.

 

TI

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Hi Dominicus

I must say I am sure enjoying your posts. I am grateful that you are sharing your experiences. So many things you have said resonate with me deeply and experientially. The hole at the top of the head leading to space.. The tube going out of the back of the head (yes it is very long.. but if you pursue it, you do end up in outer space).

Hey TI,

Thanks for enjoying the posts. What's funny is I've been a lurker here on Taobums for years, but never joined. I remember some of the better experiential report-posts being by you as the author. So the enjoyment of posts is mutual.

 

The tubes going out of the top and back ....seen em, haven't yet gone out through them. I just kind of made a note of them and still have access, however I knew a hermit one time from South Africa who told me not to be distracted by the various side attractions. He never told me what they were, but did mention the possibility of visiting vast and far off places (though at that time, I was like "yeah right!!!". Boy was he right!!!). Other times, I've popped completely non-locally out of the body at random times (washing dishes, getting out of shower, etc) Good to know there is someone else who has seen the tunnels.

The collapse of the substrate consciousness down into the heart... and more.. Thank you. Not sure how you ended up posting this in a vedanta forum, but I am grateful just the same..

From my initial collapse into the One from reading a Koan, I spent the next 2 years in retrospect gathering intel on the state prior to mind, and the vertical drop into the chest area. I found Ramana Maharshi discussing the Atma Nadi ...though at the other end of this Nadi there is no more nadis' ...as then everything is One.

 

So ultimately I linked my initial experience back then to Vedanta info, hence the post here. Though the koan that made it happen was all scratching the surface of what zen and taoism is all about.

About 5 or six months ago I noticed that while gazing out directly through the eyes and then reversing my point of view back into "looking into the vision stream at the watcher", I noticed that I could see light in there. It looked like a horizon of light-pink/white/light-blue clouds. It was always unmoving but most definately present. As the months went by I would focus on this area, backwards into my gaze but without any event. I thought perhaps I was actually looking back into the visual cortex of the brain so it didn't really sound like it was spiritually significant. However, that changed after learning about the Kati Crystal Secret Channel (or the atma nadi)..

Been doing this for a few years now. Observing the observer. I believe this was Nisargadatta's technique that he used for 3+ years to completely dissolve into the One. Though this is also arguable by many. There is a whole book written on this technique, rather handy too ...called, "The Most Rapid and Direct Means to Eternal Bliss"

 

For me, watching the watcher is what revealed the tunnels eventually. However the Watcher was also made of various energetic qualities, lights, etc....

 

Another interesting thing to know. At one point, instead of this being very loose and natural practice/seeing, in the earlier days I used to force this. Well there ended up so much access energy in the head, it was impossible to sleep for days on end until doing grounding exercises.

 

Well one day, I was Observing the Observer .....but more higher up ...I'd say between pineal gland and crown, and all of a sudden, a Buddhist style mandala appeared. It was pinkish/bluish, very dynamic and 3 dimensional in nature, vivid, etc. This was a HUGE surprise because I was never a buddhist nor did I see myself as one, I was basically letting go of all labels/titles and I always assumed the mandalas were just cultural art. Literally 2 days later, I stopped by a friends house for a little Vedanta discussion, and he tells me he has a gift for me, from one friend to another, and ends up handing me a framed picture of a mandala that looks just like the one I saw when observing self. I was SHOCKED because I did not tell anyone of the experience!

All of a sudden I found myself in a scene where I was just a point of view and the point of view was staring at a large cloud bank of light-pink light-blue clouds. I thought to myself "This feels familiar". Then it started to come back to me. This was a place where I existed before I was born

I'm guessing this info was prior to the mind...more intuitive in nature?

I just knew it to be true. I remembered being stuck there for a very long time, all alone. I remembered existing there, waiting for something or someone to let me out. In that place, I remember thinking that the cloud bank was actually a world or a plane and if I could only get into it, or over it I would have a change of scenery, a new life.

This brings up, personally, a lot of troubling questions about he state after the body drops off in physical death. I've been adamant for quite some time now that Enlightenment, the Tao, Oneness, Union w/ God ...whatever all these different paths discuss as the peak of the mountain, is the only permanent ticket from coming back here to this realm.

 

Also it brings up the book of the dead in Buddhsim (techniques to pass the different Bardo States) and interestingly in Eastern Orthodox Christianity, there is an extremely controversial topic on the "Aerial Toll House" basically traps in the afterlife set by malevolent forces and what not ...which sound similar to the Book of the Dead.

 

Theoretically speaking, I wonder if you have been embodied here previously, and reached certain meditative states, upon which when the physical vessel passed away then, the state of consciousness you were in/familiar with, was the level at which you remained for quite some time, til you figured out how to transcend and be embodied again.

 

All speculation/theory on my part, but does make me wonder. I met another fellow who said he remembered pre-existing, being told he's coming to earth to be born, telling the other units of Awareness "No ...never would I want to be born down there." ..Yet still being forced and pushed into a human fetus against his will. Brings up the possible never ending cycles of birth and death ...which personally, I would do whatever it takes not to come back here ...though that's another discussion for another time. I've heard it said that Enlightenment is only possible while embodied.... all speculation though

Have you ever tried to go backwards into your still gazing eyes into the scenery that is looking out? If so, did anything happen?

Yes all the time. There are quite a number of features being found in this way .....sometimes I pass up myself as Subject, and find tunnels, nadi's, there seems to be a whole control center of tunnels and switches at the base of the skull where the top of the spine meets.

 

I've a friend who dropped into Atma NAdi from hard core Neti Neti practice. He basically took off camping for a year in national parks and spent all his time in Neti Neti practice. He mentioned several sign posts along the way, also mentioned shifting into pure observer state, and then eventually falling vertically down into the chest where he was No more to be found.

 

He's also told me, that even lower still, in lower Dan Tien, that entering there is like a porthole into like the very substrate of consciousness/existence/infinity ...basically that through there, there is no longer even a Oneness ...everything ceases, Is, Isn't ...all paradoxes at the same time ...Like Absolute Reality itself has lost itself, in itself.... his words paraphrased.

 

So for him it's Pure Observer, Atma Nadi (middle Dan Tian area about), and then Lower Dan Tian .....all realized and merged which leaves him as: "I am, I am Not, Both, and None ...all at the same time. Again his words paraphrased. (wish I can get him on here to post more, but this guy is hard core in solitude and practice)

 

My only experience w/ Lower Dan Tian is the breath having completely stopped for super duper looooong time and then the LD became very hot and fiery, heating up the whole body. That's about it.

 

Also I've found when watching the watcher.... Neti Neti happens on auto pilot at that point, various channels all throughout the body become electric and moving..... (have a block in my throat for some reason, something I have to figure out what the deal is) ..Also the subject sometimes expands beyond the body, sometimes just a few inches past the head, sometimes fills the room, sometimes the sky.

 

I can go on for days with this stuff, but I'll stop here and give you a chance to respond. The mind was sparked into digressing here.

[Boy]

...

Edited February 9, 2013 by Boy

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Dominicus: Hehe.. Swartz will help you end this “process”, using Vedanta. What you describe is nice enough, but it has nothing to do with liberation.

 

Don’t you see that YOU, not “you”, ARE what you call THE ONE? Whatever states (including sahaja samadhi!) you might inadvertently project doesn’t matter at all.

 

No? Another time, then.

 

Love.

Hey,

I'm all for it. That's why I'm here on the boards, to get everyone's "take" on all this Vedanta Business. Is there a specific book Swartz has or just email him or what?

 

I've seen some of his vids on the youtube there, but wasn't really impressed having heard it all before. The chart he has definitely looks interesting imho.

 

Anway, lemme know.Thanks