Spiders

[eye_of_the_storm]

I was once talking to a monk (Tibetan (some time ago now)) ... about things... I think I used the spider as an example of non action ahaha in terms of it waiting for its prey etc

 

I said... I wonder what a spider thinks?

 

He was like... oh no. no I would not like to know what a spider thinks...?

 

As though the spider was the most vile, evil thing in existence...

 

I was thinking how is the spider any different to any other creature??

 

Why this reaction?

 

Is it how the spider catches its prey and sucks the life out of it?

 

I could see no difference between the spider and the large majority of humanity.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Protector]

 

OMG DIS WUN ISH SHO KAYUTE

[eye_of_the_storm]

what is the the difference between this...

 

 

and this?

 

Edited January 10, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[GreytoWhite]

Cattle don't move as quickly and can't swat us away.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Is it not strange that some of the things humanity most despises

 

are some of its own behaviours?

Edited January 10, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[ragamor]

Isn't comsuming life force the same no matter which form you consume it?

What's the difference in consuming vegetables and meat? Both is lifeforce given form.

 

Also, is greens really all that better for the environment?

 

A argument is that consuming green is less of a burden on the world, but that idea is only valid in a weird world that don't use fertilizer & chemicals in vegetables / fruit farming but still utilizing soy, drugs and specialized breeding in the meat industry.

 

Too be fair producing real quality vegetables and fruit without indistrual means that are so harmful to us all is a rather hard task. You need a very rich land, which is not everywhere to say at least, and lot of manhours for low yields compare to todays farming methods yields.

 

Animals on the other hand can thrive in a sub-optimal farm lands, AND need little effort to maintain if you turn away from todays high maintenance animal breeds. A cow or two, some chickens and goats can feed and cloth a family in sub optimal farm land, which is so much of the world, while green farming can not.

 

The question for me really breaks down to, does all common animals have souls? Birds? Ants?

If a rabbit can have a soul, then why can't a flower have a soul as well?

 

All breaks down to silliness if you ask me.

 

edit:spellings

Edited January 10, 2013 by ragamor

[thelerner]

I don't know nothing about souls. But I do know about nervous systems, complexity of brains etc., So I eat plants without regret and often choose fish over mammal. That tends to guide my eating habits more then metaphysics.

[Cheshire Cat]

Spiders are very different from us.. like aliens in some sense.

 

He was like... oh no. no I would not like to know what a spider thinks...?

 

As though the spider was the most vile, evil thing in existence...

 

There are no such things as vileness and wickedness in spider's world.

Those things exists only among humans and nowhere else in this universe.

 

That monk just feared that animals... and he assumed that if he dislike something, that thing is -at least- evil.

Or worse, he was just putting labels on reality.

 

Tibetan monks are like catholic priests.

Edited January 10, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[GreytoWhite]

I've always respected spiders. My best friend growing up had a pet tarantula and I thought it was one of the most fascinating things. Daddy long legs lived peacefully in the house I grew up in. I've had black widows live in my closet for months at a time. I've had staring contests with wolf spiders. I make sure they are aware I can kill them at any time but if they leave me be they will be left alone. Most agree to these terms. They are incredibly knowledgeable beings and they taught me quite a bit about weaving energy and people.

[Taomeow]

 

 

White Wolf Running On Air... did you know that all other wolves run on meat?..

 

So did humans for at least 400,000 years predating the first preacher of vegetarianism, who was a warlord turned land owner, who used brutal force to forbid the serfs to hunt on his annexed land and told them to eat grains and vegetables, under penalty of death for shooting the lord's deer or catching the lord's rabbit.

 

I thought it was a thread about spiders. But apparently humans can set up their threads in a web too and place a decoy "spider" in the middle and sit there waiting for someone interested in spiders to get caught in the web...

[Ish]

 

 

White Wolf Running On Air... did you know that all other wolves run on meat?..

 

So did humans for at least 400,000 years predating the first preacher of vegetarianism, who was a warlord turned land owner, who used brutal force to forbid the serfs to hunt on his annexed land and told them to eat grains and vegetables, under penalty of death for shooting the lord's deer or catching the lord's rabbit.

 

I thought it was a thread about spiders. But apparently humans can set up their threads in a web too and place a decoy "spider" in the middle and sit there waiting for someone interested in spiders to get caught in the web...

 

Taomeow, could you tell us something about spiders?

(Assuming you will give us some interesting knowledge as you do with most topics)

[ShenLung]

The habits of spiders are varied; not all spiders go about pursuing their life requirements in the same way. It is not a distinction between individual spiders, but between differing species. Most spiders will kill their mates after mating, and suck the life out of their former mate, they will leave their children to abandon their homes at a young age ... although some do raise their young, providing them with food and shelter. These behaviours are the product of instinctive programming, not concious choice. Spiders do not have the capacity to make moral decisions, they do not engage in such thinking. As a result, there is no malicious intent in them as they go about their lives. Their thoughts, such as they are, consist mainly of the program, and condition-response. So long as a person does not provoke a self defense response from a spider, they are completely harmless, and, as they make their living by killing insects, their presence can be beneficial.

So long as they confine their activities to places that do not disturb the harmony of my home, I pay them no mind, but when they get disruptive, it's time for them to be escorted outside.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Humans have 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 eyes. One left side one right side. and a similarily matched brain. i dont want to imagine 8 or 4. and go squish.

[GreytoWhite]

HNJT some spiders' brains extend into their legs.

[oildrops]

One of the most fascinating things I have seen was when I sat and watched a spider create its entire web, then watched mosquito fly into it and the spider making it into dinner. I would recommend observing spiders. When I live in tents I often have spiders come with me in my sleeping bags only pop out at strange times.

 

I never kill spiders....not since.....the incident................

[thelerner]

I would recommend observing spiders. When I live in tents I often have spiders come with me in my sleeping bags only pop out at strange times.

 

I never kill spiders....not since.....the incident................

May I say, I admire your strength, flexibility and crime fighting abilities .

We need to respect our elders and I suspect Spiders have been around a long long time..

Edited January 11, 2013 by thelerner

[Taomeow]

Taomeow, could you tell us something about spiders?

(Assuming you will give us some interesting knowledge as you do with most topics)

 

Why thank you! Spiders are quite prominent in many mythologies, folklore, art, literature, and now the internet (the world wide web...) so I wouldn't know where to start (I would start with my encounter with a tarantula the size of a truck wheel in the rain forest in Peru but I may have already told this story at some point, don't remember if I did...) --

 

so, OK, how about a Winnebago Tribe legend:

 

When Earthmaker had completed his creation of the world, he looked for a creature that could watch over his creation. First Earthmaker appointed Turtle to oversee things, but his legs were so stubby that he could not see very far at all. So he was recalled.

 

Then Earthmaker appointed Crow to oversee the world. Crow could see far and wide, but he did more than just watch: he gave orders to everyone, and never was he silent for even a moment. Thus Earthmaker recalled Crow.

 

Then Earthmaker appointed Bear. Bear could stand on his hind legs and see well and could even climb trees so that he could see in every direction. However, Bear had a terrible temper, and soon frightened the whole of creation. So Earthmaker recalled him as well.

 

Then Earthmaker appointed Spider to watch over the world. Spider was without any passion, so no one feared her. Her voice was so small that only Earthmaker himself could hear her. Because she could climb, Spider was able to see far and wide. In the beginning, Spider had only two eyes like everyone else, but just to make sure that she could see everywhere, Earthmaker gave her six new eyes, one eye for each direction. Ever since, spiders have had eight eyes.

[eye_of_the_storm]

 

 

White Wolf Running On Air... did you know that all other wolves run on meat?..

 

So did humans for at least 400,000 years predating the first preacher of vegetarianism, who was a warlord turned land owner, who used brutal force to forbid the serfs to hunt on his annexed land and told them to eat grains and vegetables, under penalty of death for shooting the lord's deer or catching the lord's rabbit.

 

I thought it was a thread about spiders. But apparently humans can set up their threads in a web too and place a decoy "spider" in the middle and sit there waiting for someone interested in spiders to get caught in the web...

 

 

In regards... White Wolf Running On Air.

 

This wolf is of spirit.

 

Regarding the history of Veg*ism I have some info... though maybe a different thread.

 

 

I have been wondering however... is life harmony... or is life violence

 

Is the universe inherently violent? ... that perhaps the purpose of life is to become the most violent... is there any point where such a way is overcome / transcended...

 

Or will we continue to justify and perpetuate this violence forever.

 

400'000 years ago roughly women weren't allowed to vote (not that it matters now because the entire system is rigged..) does that mean that....

 

meh

 

hahah

Edited January 11, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Taomeow]

Women didn't have to vote -- it was matriarchy, remember? Since they didn't abuse power when they had it (nor had any need to enforce it with violence), it stayed in their hands for as long as -- well, put it this way, for as long as human history, minus a brief sneeze in time that is OUR history.

 

Is the universe violent?.. Per my investigation, it is not violent nor does it exclude violence. This has to do with the taoist fourfold cosmic process -- Conception, Growth, Fruition, Consummation. Following this model which, far as I've been able to discern, accurately reflects all stages of unfolding of any existence taking place in the universe, I would say the universe is 1/4 violent, 3/4 nonviolent. So the goal to become the most violent is not a prudent one, because this would interfere with the natural process, and if it was a large scale interference, sooner or later the most violent would starve. It is my impression that the healthiest societies, whether human, animal, or celestial, are following this 3/4--1/4 model. They are not violent, but they are not about total exclusion of violence. Failure to proceed to the fourth stage of the cosmic process would disrupt it and cause the most nonviolent to starve too.

[eye_of_the_storm]

True... Matriarch

 

Didn't abuse power... no violence... hmm

 

Bloody Mary ?

 

For one... many other examples too

 

Women are not inherently peaceful / wise etc

 

The notion that women controlling everything would = paradise ... is

 

There are some crazy women out there...haha

 

Perhaps the most qualified and noble of heart ?

 

+ Who says women don't presently rule the world? hahah

Edited January 11, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[GrandmasterP]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/She-Wolves-Women-England-Before-Elizabeth/dp/0571237061/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357910887&sr=8-1

She Wolves has been made into a docu series for TV too, those early queens were a tough bunch. They had to be.

 

 

On spiders though.....

 

There's a story in Vivekananda's biography.

Western Guy staying in Vs Ashram in India sees V stomp on a spider and asks him why he did it, V replied

'It was a poisonous spider, it intended to kill you.'

Edited January 11, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[eye_of_the_storm]

preemptive strike?

[GrandmasterP]

Yep.

The guy was well impressed.

I'm thinking, well V would say that anyhoo. He's advocating non violence and not killing anything, then some journalist guy who intends to write a book about V has caught him bang to rights jumping up and down on an ex-spider...

What's he going to say.

I mean...

Did Vivekananda read the spider's mind?

I don't think so.

Edited January 11, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[eye_of_the_storm]

true ^

 

Could have picked the spider up and put it outside... takes all of 20 seconds

Edited January 14, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Aetherous]

I don't mind spiders at all. They live in my bathroom, and just hang out there. I try to tell them that if they mess with me I'll kill them...but I'm not sure they understand.

 

Edited January 14, 2013 by turtle shell