eye_of_the_storm Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) It is a slow coming to senses really... understanding / education etc reflection. I changed to vegetarianism when I was 18... I had never really thought about... the process / just the end product... One day I was in the city and a guy handed me a little booklet discussing the... process etc... that instant changed to a vegetarian diet. Becoming aware/ mindful of what I was causing / responsible for and didn't want to have anything to do with it anymore... Edited January 12, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) I think a lot of people are still functioning from the lower centers of the brain // (why?) In terms of blood mixing - humans are advised against mixing blood between themselves But when they consume animals they are for one, eating/drinking animal blood I wonder if people are genetically modifying themselves by eating animals? Bringing their mind to an animal state... or state of terror etc due to the conditions experienced by the animals... with the chemicals remaining present in the meat Or the blood lust (like vampire) keeps people in a predator state of mind // so people have to somehow break this. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ The first philosopher in the West to create a lasting vegetarian legacy was the Greek teacher Pythagoras. He was born on the island of Samos in 580 BCE and studied in what are now the countries of Greece, Egypt, and Iraq before establishing his school in southern Italy at the city of Croton. While Pythagoras is famous for his contributions to math, music, science, and philosophy, it is his philosophy that is of particular interest. He taught that all animals, not just humans, had souls, which were immortal and reincarnated after death. Since a human might become an animal at death, and an animal might become a human, Pythagoras believed that killing and eating non-human animals sullied the soul and prevented union with a higher form of reality. Additionally, he felt that eating meat was unhealthy and made humans wage war against one another. For these reasons, he abstained from meat and encouraged others to do likewise, perhaps making him one of the earliest campaigners for ethical vegetarianism. http://www.vegsource... ... world.html It seems Pythagoras had similar ideas to myself A few other ancient Greek vegetarian philosophers ... 2000+ years ago // strange to think Apollonius of Tyana Empedocles Plotinus Plutarch Proclus Pythagoras Socrates Sotion (Pythagorean) Theophrastus Xenocrates Edited January 12, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 12, 2013 Mindfulness. Most people I know don't think of it at all. But I'm a very concious meat eater and hunter. Actually killing an animal has made me much more sensitive to the death and suffering of what we call "food" than I would have been if I had never shot an animal. Seeing an animal die so it can be my food has made it really hard for me to be ok with the current meat industry ie "farming" animals. Anyone seen the new documentary Samsara yet? Not sure which would cause more mental issues, if you're right: the killing of an animal, or the eating of one. You don't need to kill or eat meat to be sensitive to it, but it's what did it for me. Samara documentary... highly recommended I think it is a branch from Baraka (1992)? Both totally stunning... on a number of levels... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 12, 2013 oh and vitamin b12, the soil has been damaged due to the chemicals artificially put in. One can buy vitamin d12 pills or consume it in ways such as marmite, also I disagree people who are vegetarian are more moody personally I just think thats a silly claim, people who have cancer, arthritis etc go on a vegan diet and get cured in a few months, the advantages seem to outweigh the disadavtanges. I know a number of meat eaters who frequently get B12 shots... always taking supplements of some form. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d'avid Posted January 12, 2013 thanks for the second link. Valuable points again. Also I am glad I read here to have picket up the info on MRI findings. In fact... I once had a landlord lady who was a firm Christian studying the bible and preaching others. She respected me not to eat meat and told me that according to the scripture (Isaiah?), it was since the flood that people were spoiled and had to start eat meat therefore. The quotes of Paul that I read rather deal with whether the meat should be skipped because it was dedicated to idols before - than to the question of meat in general. I do think he just accepted that at that time many people "had" to eat meat and knew he couldn't change it. As he also adviced for staying celibate but didn't want to exclude those who felt drawn to marriage. I am often asked why I am a vegetarian (not advertising it much but I have to tell when I am invited for diner). I normally used to give reluctant answers taking care not to offend the host or somebody round by revealing how I see things (why make enemies). I then mentionned health reasons or that I was brought up vegetarian but didn't rise the ethical or spiritual questions so that I would not have to ashame them or that they would not have to make themselves to feel "lower". It's difficult enough to stop myself lying to myself (just in general) so how could I expect other people to change their meat attitudes because of a moral reminder of my side. But maybe that's some subject to change in my future conversations. BTW very recently a study was published ranking the US life expectation and health on the lowest rank of all western countries with highest cost for the health system though. Thanks for all who read this and don't eat meat. Thanks for honoring your genetic siblings (9x %). I'm off the discussion so that I can continue to handle my life:-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 12, 2013 Looks like you'r on a crusade against meat eating and people who eats meat. My own observations is that prepared meat takes more effort for the body to break down than fruit, but there is no greater harm to us humans then exposure to chemicals and not enough nutritions, so meat is not a real issue in todays world when it comes to health. Karma maybe? I don't know, that kinda borders to guesswork, if so, I pity the lion. However I still advice people to eat ample of raw fruit and berries, since raw food contains far more good stuff and is very easy for the body to digest. I suppose I am on a bit of a crusade I am not against people... against certain behaviors, which I believe are mostly unconscious / conditioned People tend to identify with one thing... and believe it to be an attack on them personally... In this one instance I disagree with a number of people... but that is only one aspect of what they practice... many have a good many wonderful and insightful things to say... probably very nice people all in all.... just this one thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted January 12, 2013 ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNCIENT TAOIST SAYING When going to battle, eat meat When communicating with nature, eat plants When becoming one with Tao, eat nothing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Immortal Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) I have been a vegetarian for 8 years and it has tremendous benefits for qi flow, karma, and the environment it's not perfect. But we must remember even eating plants we must kill HUNDREDS of insects with organic or synthetic pesticides. Not to mention plants must must die for us to eat them, there is no escaping this accumulation of negative karma. Chanting the six character bright mantra (Om Ma Ni Pad Me Hung) of quan yin/avalokitesvara 7 times before eating purifies the karma of killing the animals, bugs, or plants from the produciton of the food. While vegetarianism is definatly a HUGE step in the right direction, it is still not pefect and will never be. As Master Chunyi Lin as stressed so many times, love and compassion is the greatest power in the universe for healing and spiritual cultivation. Edited January 12, 2013 by Immortal 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted January 12, 2013 I remember a scene from The Hobbit, when they come to the elves' place, and they get fed grass and leaves, like the bewildered look on their face. That's what you're gonna see if you pull the steak out of my plate haha 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Taxing America’s Health: Subsidies for Meat and Dairy Products As Americans filed their taxes in April, PCRM launched a new campaign against the government’s spending of billions of those taxpayer dollars on subsidies that support the production of unhealthy meat and dairy products. The country’s unprecedented rates of heart disease, obesity, and type 2 diabetes are linked to diets high in fat and cholesterol found in meat and dairy products, and the cost to individuals and taxpayers is enormous. The Medicare and Medicaid spending for obesity-related conditions—which are largely preventable—now totals $61 billion per year. By 2030, the annual medical costs for cardiovascular disease alone are projected to triple to $818 billion. http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=2586 /// Good to see the gov looking out for us again... (s) Generally I have found...whatever the government is advocating/pushing for... do the exact opposite and you should be ok.... haha Edited January 13, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) now match with this graph approx 60% military spending and 60% funding meat and diary subsides ? any correlation? haha Edited January 13, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) I have been a vegetarian for 8 years and it has tremendous benefits for qi flow, karma, and the environment it's not perfect. But we must remember even eating plants we must kill HUNDREDS of insects with organic or synthetic pesticides. Not to mention plants must must die for us to eat them, there is no escaping this accumulation of negative karma. Chanting the six character bright mantra (Om Ma Ni Pad Me Hung) of quan yin/avalokitesvara 7 times before eating purifies the karma of killing the animals, bugs, or plants from the produciton of the food. While vegetarianism is definatly a HUGE step in the right direction, it is still not pefect and will never be. As Master Chunyi Lin as stressed so many times, love and compassion is the greatest power in the universe for healing and spiritual cultivation. true... ideally... well my aim is to get off the grid and grow my own fruits etc. Living mostly from trees... nothing will be killed in the process + no chemicals the offerings from the trees... not digging the earth etc. Here is a wonderful article too... Yoked to Earth: A Treatise on Corpse-Demons and Bigu or “abstention from grains” † By Frederick R. Dannaway This paper was written to gather, as much as possible, the scattered and often contradictory lore of an elusive practice rooted in ancient China. The materials available on the subject seem incomplete and are largely unavailable in English or online or are hidden amongst larger works on Daoism or China. I make no claim to any original scholarship on the subject, but hope that it may humbly aid those interested in but who are lacking access to certain texts. I was going to entitle this paper with the rather “on the nose” Against the Grain as it subtly expresses the Daoist paradox of integrating with a higher order rather than “going with the grain” of society both in metaphors of food and carpentry. Continues... https://sites.google...demons-and-bigu http://thetaobums.co...__+yoked +earth ... I would like to see someday people growing their own food again / urban farming etc Edited January 13, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) recent event... A friend just came back from hunting on a cattle farm out west...they spent a day or so helping the owner dehorn and castrate the cattle. he had never done it before... He said it was more or less messed up/ disgusting... the first 5 of so he did his reaction was repulsion etc at what he was doing/seeing... though he just got use to it. So the first / natural reaction was repulsion though he conditioned/ desensitized himself to make it acceptable He didn't want to empathize with the animal or imagine himself in such a position. He said there was blood pissing/spraying everywhere and the cattle where going insane over the pain Once the animals figured out what was happening they became very difficult to catch...doing all they could to avoid it... one even charged my friend. Poor things... Edited January 15, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) “The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them; that’s the essence of inhumanity.” — George Bernard Shaw We are the living graves of murdered beasts, Slaughtered to satisfy our appetites. We never pause to wonder at our feasts, If animals, like men, can possibly have rights. We pray on Sundays that we may have light, To guide our footsteps on the path we tread. We're sick of war, we do not want to fight - The thought of it now fills our hearts with dread, And yet - we gorge ourselves upon the dead. Like carrion crows we live and feed on meat, Regardless of the suffering and the pain we cause by doing so, if thus we treat defenceless animals for sport or gain, how can we hope in this world to attain, the PEACE we say we are so anxious for. We pray for it o'er hecatombs of slain, to God, while outraging the moral law, thus cruelty begets its offspring - WAR. George Bernard Shaw Edited January 13, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) For the sake of love of purity, the Bodhisattva should refrain from eating flesh, which is born of semen, blood, etc. For fear of causing terror to living beings let the Bodhisattva, who is disciplining himself to attain compassion, refrain from eating flesh... It is not true that meat is proper food and permissible when the animal was not killed by himself, when he did not order others to kill it, when it was not specially meant for him Again, there may be some people in the future who .. . being under the influence of the taste for meat will string together in various ways sophistic arguments to defend meat eating. But... meat eating in any form, in any manncr, and in any place is unconditionally and once for all prohibited... Meat eating I have not permitted to anyone, I do not permit, I will not permit . - Lankavatara The reason for practising dhyana [concentration of mind and seeking to attain Samadhi [equilibrium; tranquility; heightened and expanded awareness] is to escape from the suffering of life, but in seeking to escape from suffering ourselves why should we inflict it upon others? Unless you can so control your minds that even the thought of brutal unkindness and killing is abhorrent, you will never be able to escape from the bondage of the world's life. . . After my Parinirvana [complete extinction] in the last kalpa [the time between the start of a world cycle and its extinction] different kinds of ghosts will be encountered everywhere deceiving people and teaching them that they can eat meat and still attain enlightenment . . . How can a bhikshu, who hopes to become a deliverer of others, himself he living on the flesh of other sentient beings? - Surangama The eating of rneat extinguishes the seed of great compassion. - Mahaparinirvana I have enforced the law against killing certain animals and many others, but the greatest progress of righteousness among men comes from the exhortation in favour of non-injury to life and abstention from killing living beings. - Asoka's Edicts Hurt not others with that which pains yourself. - Udanavarga By whomsoever no evil is done in deed, or word, or thought, him I call a brahmin who is guarded in these three. - Dhammapada The Buddha has mercy even on the meanest thing. - Vinaya, Cullavagga Khandhaka To serve the creatures is to serve the Buddha. - Indian Proverb All beings seek for happiness; so let your compassion extend itself to all. - Mahavamsa The sacred eightfold path or middle way - right views, right resolve, right speech, right action, right living, right effort, right attention, right meditation . . which lead to the extinction of suffering and Nirvana. - Buddha's first sermon 4th truth. Vinaya, Mahavagga The Goddess of Mercy has a thousand hands - and needs them all. - Japanese Proverb He who, seeking his own happiness, punishes or kills beings who also long for happiness, will not find happiness after death. - Dhammapada Let him not destroy, or cause to be destroyed, any life at all, nor sanction the acts of those who do so. Let him refrain from even hurting any creature, both those that are strong and those that tremble in the world. - Sutta-Nipata Because he has pity on every living creature, therefore is a man called 'holy'. - Dhammapada Full of love for all things in the world, practising virtue, in order to benefit others, this man alone is happy. - Dhammapada One act of pure love in saving life is greater than spending the whole of one's time in religious offerings to the gods - Dhammapada http://www.ivu.org/h...ast/buddha.html Edited January 13, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) We're not completely organic, I give the perennial weeds a blast over with Glyphosate at the start of each season to give the beggars something to think about. If I didn't then there would be little or no crop as we can't be there every hour weeding each day which is what you need to do without weedkiller. They do say that Glyphosate is inert once it reaches the soil its systemic and only kills the weed and roots but as it actually doesn't kill all the roots then I expect it alSo leaves a residue in the soil as some claim on tinternet. Apart from that one treatment nothing goes onto our land except horse and pig muck , rainwater and a lot of sweat. It is a standing joke to me why they subsidise farmers to the extent that they do. This European Agricultural nonsense where farmers are paid to grow too much of something and then mountains of surplus are given away on the one hand then on the other hand and sometimes in the same parish some other farmers are paid not to grow anything at all under 'set aside' policy. One arable chap in this parish has not turned a sod this six years past and he drives round in a brand new Range Rover and lives in grand style, villagers call him 'Subsidy Bob'. Then growing cereals to feed cattle to make meat.... How mad is that? I can almost sympathise with anyone who kills and eats a wild animal for food, some places are none too good for growing edibles so hunting is a necessity, eskimos for example but growing crops to feed animals to make meat to eat... Lunacy. Eat the feckin' crops yourself. Edited January 13, 2013 by GrandmasterP 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 13, 2013 “If I am to be a voice for animals, then how should I speak? Am I to whisper, when they are screaming in pain? Am I to be calm, when they tremble in fear? Am I to shout for mercy, as their throats are being slit? Tell me how I need to speak for you to grant them their freedom? — Davegan Raza 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eye_of_the_storm Posted January 13, 2013 Empathy is the capacity to recognize emotions that are being experienced by another sentient or fictional being. One may need to have a certain amount of empathy before being able to experience compassion. The English word was coined in 1909 by Edward B. Titchener as an attempt to translate the German word "Einfühlungsvermögen", a new phenomenon explored at the end of 19th century mainly by Theodor Lipps. It was later re-translated into the German language (Germanized) as "Empathie", and is still in use there.[1] Empathy can be divided into two major components: Emotional empathy, also called affective empathy: the drive to respond with an appropriate emotion to another's mental states.[31] Our ability to empathize emotionally is supposed to be based on emotional contagion:[32] being affected by another’s emotional or arousal state.[33] Cognitive empathy: the drive to identify another's mental states.[24][31] The term cognitive empathy and theory of mind are often used synonymously.[34] Although science has not yet agreed upon a precise definition of these constructs, there is consensus about this distinction.[35] There is a difference in disturbance of affective versus cognitive empathy in different psychiatric disorders.[35] A meta-analysis of recent fMRI studies of empathy confirmed that different brain areas are activated during affective–perceptual empathy and cognitive–evaluative empathy.[36] Also a study with patients with different types of brain damage confirmed the distinction between emotional and cognitive empathy.[32] Specifically, the inferior frontal gyrus appears to be responsible for emotional empathy, and the ventromedial prefrontal gyrus seems to mediate cognitive empathy.[32] Emotional empathy can be subdivided into: Personal distress: the inclination to experience self-centered feelings of discomfort and anxiety in response to another’s suffering.[37][38] Empathic concern: the inclination to experience of sympathy and compassion towards others in response to their suffering.[37][38] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) There is nothing "wrong" with eating meat. In fact most Buddhists eat meat, as do most Taoists, you see vegetarianism in the monastic traditions for the most part. Many westerners don't have a sense of balance in their life so they feel this need to throw themselves into something all or nothing, but the fact of the matter is that humans are omnivores. If we weren't omnivores at certain points in history we would've certainly died off. Now that doesn't mean that we should exclusively eat meat, just that eating meat isn't necessarily cruel or unusual. We're not asking the tigers to stop hunting (or playing with their prey, which they do), yet we seem to want humans to stop doing something that is absolutely natural to their being. I was a vegetarian from the age of 20 to around 29. For about four or five years I didn't eat eggs. I look back upon that time with little remorse, but at the same time I understand that it was my desire to appear compassionate that drove me to vegetarianism, more than the actual act of compassion. I wore leather without any issues, yet I never ate meat, for example. In looking at my life now compared to then, I think I am much more beneficial to my fellow man now as a meat eater, practicing compassion in my actions, then I was as a vegetarian, doing what I thought was compassionate. Killing an animal for sustenance is not wrong. Cruelty to animals is. That's the major difference that most people seem to forget. I advocate the compassionate treatment of animals, but not vegetarianism. (On a side note, Buddha, Lao Tzu, and Chuang Tzu all ate meat). Aaron Edited January 13, 2013 by Aaron 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted January 13, 2013 DL enjoys a full English breakfast when at home. Has the makings flown in from London. bacon, sausages, black pudding, the works. Big meat eaters are Tibetans, always puzzled me why the converts who pretend to follow that path over here go veggie. The New Kadampa cafe near us is good and that's pure veg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted January 13, 2013 recent event... A friend just came back from hunting on a cattle farm out west...they spent a day or so helping the owner dehorn and castrate the cattle. he had never done it before... He said it was more or less messed up/ disgusting... the first 5 of so he did his reaction was repulsion etc at what he was doing/seeing... though he just got use to it. So the first / natural reaction was repulsion though he conditioned/ desensitized himself to make it acceptable He didn't want/ choose not to empathize with the animal or imagine himself in such a position. He said there was blood pissing/spraying everywhere and the cattle where going insane over the pain Once the animals figured out what was happening they became very difficult to catch...doing all they could to avoid it... one even charged my friend. Poor things... Yup, I think there are always better ways to do something. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted January 13, 2013 Before creation we ate nothing, then we ate plants, and then we ate meat Can't wait for when we finally eat non-organic matter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted January 13, 2013 Before creation we ate nothing, then we ate plants, and then we ate meat Can't wait for when we finally eat non-organic matter http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/05/18/why-does-this-woman-eat-rocks-its-complicated/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
i am Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) I'm very sorry, because I just won't make the time to read all your posts, if you've covered this, but if nothing else, the meat industry, and read meat in particular, is about the biggest consumer of fresh water out there. It's getting scarce...we waste it like crazy. But it seems somehow even worse to use it on livestock. The amount of farming land now used strictly to grow cattle feed; the amount of fossil fuels used; the amount of fresh water, all to support the over-indulgence in meat that people now "enjoy"...I know this topic is about the spiritual effects of meat on a person, but it's definitely a poison to the environment and society as a whole in the way of the use (I'd say waste) of resources. There are all sorts of things wrong with the meat industry (starting with the fact that it's an "industry"). I still don't quite buy that there's necessarily anything wrong, inherently, with eating meat. edit: I'm also very sorry, after reading my post, for my overuse of commas and how halting and un-flowy reading it makes for... Edited January 13, 2013 by i am 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
