Chi without qigong? or: taoism-yoga combination?

[moga]

Ok, this is a very basic question.

 

Just getting into spirituality and buddhism/taoism and interested in discovering chi. I'm reading books on a wide variety of subjects, from taoism to buddhism to tantra. I want to get started with the practicalities, both physical movement, meditation and eventually chi work in due time. I'll be lying if I said i'm not interested in circulating sexual energy and such things, but it's not the main goal. Rather peace of mind and finding my level of spirituality.

 

Now to my beginners dilemma:

When it comes to the meditation and idea of chi, I'm leaning towards taoism. It just feels smoother and more clean-cut than kundalini and the kundalini connected meditation, and more easy to approach (not as much arcane language etc).

But as for the psysical exercises, yoga seems more for me. I have tried yoga several times and like it, and in the country I live it's readily available everywhere (and a lot of my friends do it). I'm joining a kundalini yoga class soon, thinking the energy works there will help me with chi as well.

 

So:

1) Is it just stupid to focus on two different systems? or is it pretty much the same thing and the important thing is to get going?

 

And,

2) is it possible to discover and work with chi purely through the mind and meditation? Without any qigong at all that is? advice needed!

[Shagrath]

1) it's not stupid. but still qigong is way more stronger in developing energy and making person aware of it then yoga. but eventually you train what you like more. I talked to few yoga masters and everyone of them told me that you cannot even compare the formation of energy in qigong and yoga. qigong is way stronger. but yoga is their way and it resonates with them, qigong doesn't.

 

2) yes it is possible. but qigong makes it faster, because your mind recognizes different processes and becomes aware of them. while in just plain meditation the process of being aware if energy processes is much slower, but possible. best solution is practice some energy work and meditate a lot. tibetan monks recommend that on every 1h of energy work you should have 4-8h meditation. I don't think that ratio is possible if you are not monk due to everyday obligations but it clearly displays that meditation is crucial piece, energy work only makes it go faster.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Shagrath

[Dainin]

Hi Moga,

 

I advocate doing both active and quiescent practices. I usually like to do separate sessions for each, sitting in the morning and active in the evening. You might prefer the opposite. Building qi isn't necessarily the most important thing, but working through blockages so that the qi you have flows smoothly might be. Yoga might be more helpful in that way. I agree with Shagrath that qigong is generally better for building up qi (although it depends on the set that you are doing). Combining them may give you the best of both worlds. Also, various yogic breathing practices (pranayama) can be powerful qi builders and kundalini awakeners in their own right. When you take your kundalini yoga class you will probably experience this.

 

Regarding your second question, the author William Bodri (a very interesting guy) contends that sitting alone is all you need to open your qi channels. As someone who did many years of seated zazen, I found that practicing qigong made the qi sensations during zazen much more tangible.

 

Most of all, try different things and give them some time to work (100 days is traditional). See what you enjoy the most and get good results from. Good luck with your practice.

[ChiDragon]

Ok, this is a very basic question.

 

Now to my beginners dilemma:

 

So:

1) Is it just stupid to focus on two different systems? or is it pretty much the same thing and the important thing is to get going?

 

And,

2) is it possible to discover and work with chi purely through the mind and meditation? Without any qigong at all that is? advice needed!

 

First of all, I want to make myself clear that this is straightly from my point of view based on my empirical experience. As a Chinese, my practice has no external influence whatsoever. I had leaned all the ideas from the Chinese traditional way. I was only try to stay pure with one, and only one, system to reach the ultimate goal of a particular system. I will explain how I understood it without any other influence. I had talked many times about the subject of Chi Kung throughout this forum. Therefore, I wish this will be my last time to repeat myself again.

 

1. It is not stupid rather its unwise to practice two systems at the same time as a beginner. You should just stick with one system and be familiar with it before go to another system.

 

2. I want to answer your question very seriously and hope someone will follow my advice, so, this will be my final words on this subject matter.

 

NO, it is not possible to discover and work with chi through the mind and meditation without Chi Kung(qigong). The Chinese definition for Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing. Another words, without breathing, then you will not have any Chi sensation which means no energy will be built up in your body.

 

Here was my recommendation for all beginners:

http://thetaobums.co...ioners-to-know/

[Shagrath]

I would also add two things essential for energy work and becoming more aware of energy and being able to control the energy better.

1) maturing the Buddha nature inside you

2) becoming aware of Emptiness

 

By control I mean the ability to consciously circulate energy, being able to constitute energy in various parts of your and other peoples body parts (healing and self-healing), to consciously strengthen your energetic structures.

 

And of course for the greater benefit and faster developing next to the meditations you must practice regularly some energetic work/exercises.

[dwai]

Ok, this is a very basic question.

 

Just getting into spirituality and buddhism/taoism and interested in discovering chi. I'm reading books on a wide variety of subjects, from taoism to buddhism to tantra. I want to get started with the practicalities, both physical movement, meditation and eventually chi work in due time. I'll be lying if I said i'm not interested in circulating sexual energy and such things, but it's not the main goal. Rather peace of mind and finding my level of spirituality.

 

Now to my beginners dilemma:

When it comes to the meditation and idea of chi, I'm leaning towards taoism. It just feels smoother and more clean-cut than kundalini and the kundalini connected meditation, and more easy to approach (not as much arcane language etc).

But as for the psysical exercises, yoga seems more for me. I have tried yoga several times and like it, and in the country I live it's readily available everywhere (and a lot of my friends do it). I'm joining a kundalini yoga class soon, thinking the energy works there will help me with chi as well.

 

So:

1) Is it just stupid to focus on two different systems? or is it pretty much the same thing and the important thing is to get going?

 

And,

2) is it possible to discover and work with chi purely through the mind and meditation? Without any qigong at all that is? advice needed!

 

If you feel inclined towards Yoga do Yoga. You can also do Qi gong or Taiji Chuan. They are complementary systems. My Yoga has helped my Taiji and vice versa.

 

Chi is always there...we are just not sensitive enough to feel it flowing.

 

Depending on how authentic your Yoga practice is, it can be just as intense and at times more intense than Qi Gong (but imho, practicing something should not be predicated on the intensity of it's effects because the effects are mostly ephemeral). The key to Yoga is the pranayama stage besides the Asanas (or Poses). And imho, it's better to relax into the poses rather than force them. As your relax, Qi/Prana automatically flows and aids in further relaxation.

 

When I practiced both, I'd split the schedule (so Tai Chi in the night, yoga in the morning). Now I just do Tai Chi (lack of time more than anything else...)

 

The most significant effect of Yoga (and pranayama) was the effortless meditation that followed a session during the Shavasana (Corpse Pose). Second most significant thing was the raising of the energy through the central channel during Pranayama.

 

NOTE: Do not do pranayama without a teacher! And a good teacher will only give pranayama after 6 months to 1 year of solid Asana practice, imho.

[Mal]

Currently :-

 

Yoga at dawn

Taichi form at midday

practicing music then (or) meditating at dusk

playing with KAP in the evening

[Protector]

ChiDragon doesn't read my learning thread

I'm heartbroken

[moga]

Thanks for your replies and time everyone!

 

I finally found a seemingly authentic place that does yoga in combination with "breath exercises" (=pranayama I guess, though they start straight away with this in combination with asanas) as well as meditation - their meditations are called Antar Mauna and "Small Ajapa Japa" which are supposed to be tantric meditations. It's based on a Danish swami called Janakananda's techings. Even in my city, a capital of 2 million people and an abundance of yoga places, all seemed very commercial and this was the only one that seemed authentic (well, there was one more but it turned out to be a sect).

 

I'll start with this, eventually in combination with classic hathayoga at a nearby gym. Hopefully qigong and chi work will follow after a year.

[ChiDragon]

ChiDragon doesn't read my learning thread

I'm heartbroken

 

Sorry about that...!!! Is there anything you've posted that I'd missed and should cast my humble opinion upon....???

[joeblast]

Thanks for your replies and time everyone!

 

I finally found a seemingly authentic place that does yoga in combination with "breath exercises" (=pranayama I guess, though they start straight away with this in combination with asanas) as well as meditation - their meditations are called Antar Mauna and "Small Ajapa Japa" which are supposed to be tantric meditations. It's based on a Danish swami called Janakananda's techings. Even in my city, a capital of 2 million people and an abundance of yoga places, all seemed very commercial and this was the only one that seemed authentic (well, there was one more but it turned out to be a sect).

 

I'll start with this, eventually in combination with classic hathayoga at a nearby gym. Hopefully qigong and chi work will follow after a year.

Identify signals, generally identify and contrast with 'noise.' Attenuate as many known signals as possible, peel back layers of the onion, get a greater degree of focus on noise. Identify signals within noise, isolate signals, attenuate signals. Reevaluate noise and signal to noise ratios. The process allows you to continually "lower the noise floor" and make "identifiable signals" clearer, which can them be streamlined, harmonized, and more completely relegated to subconscious processes. Once enough signals attenuated, noise floor very low - bask in the signal of pure awareness

 

Whoever said meditation wasnt like mixing a recording

[ChiDragon]

A word about choosing a method to practice. There are a conventional and non-conventional way of practice. The non-conventional way was considered to be 旁門左道; it will get one into 走火入魔.

 

旁門左道: Taken the side door and the left side of the road. Normally, people will take to front door to enter a house in the open with nothing to hide. Those who take the side door were something fishy and sneaky about them. The left side was considered to be the wrong path.

 

走火入魔: Running over fire and enter a devilish path. It was a result describing one from practicing some non-conventional methods which causing internal body injury.

 

It is wise and important for one to study a method thoroughly and determine its category before practicing. The conventional methods will be benefited for the health of the body, definitely. In the contrary, a non-conventional method maybe good in a short run but it will cause health problems and get worsen more seriously along the path.

Edited January 13, 2013 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

IOTW, relying solely on dusty old books and attempting to translate them as the foundation of your practice is really likely to just make you ask all sorts of questions and begin wondering about the trees over there while discussing the finger pointing at the moon

[ChiDragon]

It is much better than learning from a modern radio book to be a ham radio operator......... :D :D

 

 

 

FYI Did you know that all the dusty old books from the Shaolin temple are sold for thousands of dollars; and people are very hungry for them. However, they still might learn something from them with a half-ass translation. Hopefully, they will not be 走火入魔: Running over fire and enter a devilish path.

Edited January 13, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Protector]

Sorry about that...!!! Is there anything you've posted that I'd missed and should cast my humble opinion upon....???

 

Like all the stuff about getting all the chi ever if you live like a monk

BUT YOU DON'T CAAAAAAAAARE

[ChiDragon]

Like all the stuff about getting all the chi ever if you live like a monk

BUT YOU DON'T CAAAAAAAAARE

 

Well, I don't have to live like a monk to get all the chi ever. Some Taoists do live like a monk and some don't. It happens to be that I don't and still getting lots of chi from practicing Chi Kung and Tai Ji. I can release my energy anytime and get them back anytime. People have a great urge to build up their sexual energy in a hurry but there was no need for me to do so. It just comes with the package in my cultivation.

Edited January 13, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Protector]

I find kundalini to be not qi gong and not yoga, yet people gather power and some people without knowing about what kundalini is

Almost every monk uses kundalini and some don't even know it, kinda funny

So, to 2) it would be a yes, not need for meditation either.

[Mokona]

How much time do you have? It takes time to learn a new skill, and become proficient enough to practice on your own time, the correct way. You could practice anything you want, time permitting. Just keep in mind that you want quality over quantity.

[moga]

At this point I can realistically spend two nights a week on organized training, as well as the occasional weekend or summer course. And I can train a little more by myself at home every weekday. So I'm aiming at taking one yoga and one meditation class per week. The first two months of yoga will be probably at a place that offers a combination class of yoga/qigong in preparation for neigong. Just to get an introduction to that stuff, rather than just doing random yoga at a gym. And then i'll start with the tantric yoga/meditation course I wrote about above (they had a waiting list so couldn't start right away). And yeah I agree it's best not to overload at first