Forcing yourself not to preach/deliver good messages

[skydog]

Does anyone find they do this.

 

You know the old focus on yourself dont worry about others...

 

Can this ever be perceived as selfish, and innoble just about pleasing others.

 

Perhaps it will make one feel very disharmonious, but is that selfish to worry about how you feel?

[Flolfolil]

i have ruined plenty of friendships trying to preach. What i learned is that it isn't possible to know what is best for everyone :/

[skydog]

I hear you man

 

Its just sometimes peoples suffering just bothers me, Ive keeping my mouth shut apart from on thetaobums. I think to myself yeh if you change others will notice and want to find out why maybe but theres a part of me right now saying thats selfish who cares if they hate you...also preaching never works.

 

But it is depressing knowing that people suffer so needlessly

[GrandmasterP]

Preaching only works if it is delivered to the already converted.

Spiritualists have never proselytised cos we know it just doesn't work.

[Birch]

I have rid myself of plenty people who preached to me about what I ought to be doing vis a vis them while refusing to practice what they were preaching towards me. That's where I learnt it. Unlearning it is no small affair. Especially with such a 'well-meaning' outlet for it as 'spiritual practice'.

[Flolfolil]

if someone came along when you were having a shitty day and spewed off some spiritual stuff about how your pain is an illusion what would you think? Would you agree and start smiling and laughing or would you think that they don't understand?

 

this is a situation i have personally been the preacher in, and it never turned out how i wanted it to

[skydog]

i have ruined plenty of friendships trying to preach. What i learned is that it isn't possible to know what is best for everyone :/

 

Actually good point...maybe it is not possible to know what some people really need/how to go about that...perhaps the universe will deliver what it needs to...

 

or maybe im just trying to make a belief to make things easy

[skydog]

actually back to normal view no preaching, people are learning their own way and perhaps the greatest message is your own enlightenment..maybe they already see things you are doing as great and just dont tell or show you..Actually I have been finding this to be true

[Flolfolil]

i don't personally think the world needs anything, or to change

 

if you want to be happy, cool. If some people want to live their lives like living on earth is wallowing in a pile of shit, also cool

 

i think (and this is totally opinion here) that if you let things be it might further your own happiness. But i don't know what your version of happiness is. This is a pretty good description of mine though

[Aetherous]

I am starting to think people function the opposite of how they should...or how you think they would. As a rule, almost 100% of the time.

 

For instance, if you want to actually teach someone something, tell them the opposite....or really just tell them nothing at all. Because when you tell them the truth directly, it's either "in one ear and out the other" or argued against. Whereas a total dumbo will suddenly have an epiphany and spout off some hard learned truth as if it were nothing, if you just leave them alone.

 

If you want to make someone happy, try to piss them off. They will make themselves happy on their own, and will be glad you challenged them into their happiness...even if they claim to hate you for pissing them off.

 

If you want someone to stop hating you...try to get them to hate you more. They will have nothing but respect for you then...versus, if you try to be polite or try to change their feelings, they will generally have no respect and feel threatened.

 

People are a bunch of freaks.

[skydog]

lol

[skydog]

on further thoughts

 

the view "everyone needs to change" can be seen as disharmonious

 

but so can the view "everything is ok, nothing needs to change" in a way this is false reality, in the realm of beliefs, perhaps it is a pretty belief but not reality.

 

I mean things in nature change all the time, when a mother sees her child crying in pain shes likely not going to say that pain is ok...? right

 

No I dont think preaching is good but giving a message sometimes...I question myself sometimes on this.

[skydog]

I am starting to think people function the opposite of how they should...or how you think they would. As a rule, almost 100% of the time.

 

For instance, if you want to actually teach someone something, tell them the opposite....or really just tell them nothing at all. Because when you tell them the truth directly, it's either "in one ear and out the other" or argued against. Whereas a total dumbo will suddenly have an epiphany and spout off some hard learned truth as if it were nothing, if you just leave them alone.

 

If you want to make someone happy, try to piss them off. They will make themselves happy on their own, and will be glad you challenged them into their happiness...even if they claim to hate you for pissing them off.

 

If you want someone to stop hating you...try to get them to hate you more. They will have nothing but respect for you then...versus, if you try to be polite or try to change their feelings, they will generally have no respect and feel threatened.

 

People are a bunch of freaks.

 

this is an interesting post, thanks for sharing.

[Flolfolil]

when i say everything is fine as it is, that includes when some people choose to act As in, no matter what happens its all good

[skydog]

Maybe peoples suffering wakes them up, maybe not...if not is this ok?

[Protector]

A lot of times I try to force myself to say something but then I don't and something stupid happens

OH, IF ONLY I'VE SAID SOMETHING, THEN THEY WON'T BE ACTING UP A FOOL

[Birch]

I tried sharing my 'direct realization' of 'no god out there' with a Christian friend and it didn't work out very well. I thought she'd be pleased with my account of immanence. Not at all.

[Guest munky]

The very act of "preaching" can imply that you are more spiritual or wise than the other person and the person in that position may feel uncomfortable as if someone is shoving something down their throat telling them how to live their lives. You listen and make suggestions to those that you care about. Never feeling superior than the other and never forcing things as that develops resistance and is contrary to way of noninterference with the natural course of things. Seek to practice the principle of wu wei and letting go of contrivance when acting so as to be spontaneous, taking action with awareness so you know it is what should be done. Following the situation, if they are interested in dao you can tell them more about it. With experience and practice we see the the bigger and bigger picture. It should be wise to not be overly fixated on telling people about the dao or not to tell people about the dao but simply just be natural.

 

Theres a chapter in dao de jing about how if it weren't for people who laughed when they heard about the dao, then it wouldn't be the dao. In the end it probably comes down to people's affinity with the Way or their karma as people who can be open to accept and practice the teachings are few. For those that closed off, even if an immortal were to come preach it wouldn;t help them let alone be given the opportunity to meet one or any taoist teacher/master for that matter.

 

I also attached an excerpt from Treatise on Abiding in Forgetulness translated by Thomas Cleary which gives some insight into matters related to this that are quite interesting. In particular Chuang tzu said, "It is easy to know the Way; it is hard not to speak of it."

We might be leaking our spritual light to some extent by needlessly talking about the dao as well as somehow exploiting our insight in various ways.

Edited January 12, 2013 by munky

[chi 2012]

Shitt, try explaining cultivation to a fundamentalist. It doesn't work.

 

That's fun. You can really mess with their heads if you want to.

[GreytoWhite]

I can't listen to people complain about their aches and pains any longer. They don't want to hear that breathing in a different manner, silly looking exercises, and changing their diet can change their quality of life. Even when they hear of how far I've come from what I was. The only people who have done anything to change themselves were those that saw me transform from a cripple to a more normally able person.

[suninmyeyes]

Perhaps it will make one feel very disharmonious, but is that selfish to worry about how you feel?

 

No , I think that feeling well and deeply balanced mentaly/emotionally/spiritualy is of utmost importance actually . We have to heal ourselves first and than only can we radiate.

If the time is right and the attempt to heal is strong and torough , as a part of cure -- realization that we are not separate and indeed interconnected will replace old disatisfactions. When that is understood than caring about others and enviroment becomes unforced and natural outcome.

 

As Ubuntu says: 'I am becouse you are'.

Edited January 12, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[skydog]

Nice posts

 

I think this was some kind of energetic weakness popping up or something...

 

also I dont think I was forcing myself not to preach just felt ok with the way things were, maybe i told myself bad to preach realising thats a belief and not too attached to that ideaa

 

i duuuuuno

Edited January 12, 2013 by sinansencer

[Mal]

[skydog]

Let others vibrate as they vibrate and want the best for them. Never mind how they're flowing to you. You concentrate on how you're flowing. Because one who is connected to the Energy Stream is more powerful, more influential than a million who are not.

 

nice quote

[raimonio]

The very act of "preaching" can imply that you are more spiritual or wise than the other person and the person in that position may feel uncomfortable as if someone is shoving something down their throat telling them how to live their lives.

 

Good point.

 

I think in the end it comes down to the fact that when you have an urge to preach it means there is something in reality which you cannot yourself accept, so you have a desire to change by force, you end up trying to control reality to go like you think it should be going. The occasions when there is truly a window of opportunity for change for a person are quite rare tbh.

 

My own patience is rarely enough to wait for a couple of years for that window of opportunity, I end up preaching and then everything goes bad, I am left thinking "great, this is just what I wanted". On the other hand I feel guilty if I dont preach, because then I wouldn't be giving them the opportunity and information. And ofcourse sometimes, like munky said, you do it just so you can appear to be right and wise, which is pretty far from actual wisdom

Edited January 12, 2013 by raimonio