RongzomFan Posted January 14, 2013 You both are losing me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted January 14, 2013 i haven't achieved jhana so have nothing to offer from personal opinion. I understand what you're saying about consciousness with signs/characteristics. True it doesn't rest in thoughts or non-thought... in a state of non-conceptual realization one can have thoughts, they just aren't seen as real, followed, or if one is practicing shine or shamatha, they don't take ones attention from the breath as they are dissolved as they arise... that has been my experience of it anyway, and accords with the teachings. Yes vipashyana and most methods at all, until up to realization of mahamudra non-meditation and atiyoga are contrived, or conceptual. Â Not sure why you bring jhanas up btw. I assume its not in direct response to anything i said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted January 14, 2013 First you recognize the nature of the mind through transmission. Â But realizing emptiness is a much higher accomplishment, that requires something like karmamudra. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simple_Jack Posted January 14, 2013 You both are losing me. It's from the thread on DW, talking about karmamudra (the one you linked to.) Basically, he says (not verbatim) that jhanas are a conceptual bliss and that it is conceptual because it has a subtle conceptual focus (Found another thread which discusses this http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4547&start=0) Â Whoops...Sorry, I screwed it up before. Just including it for completeness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted January 19, 2013 These positions you are taking guys.. They don't exist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
