My Novel -- selected chapters for review

[三江源]

~ Thanks to everyone for all staying on topic here. It takes a village, as the saying goes. ~

 

 

mod team

[dwai]

i am curious why you use katte instead of just saying embankment? and hotel instead of just saying restaraunt? but this from an american perspective, so not meaning anything except curiosity.

 

i agree the parenthetical content is hard to handle, because it breaks up the flow of the text. When i reach a set of paretheses my mind sort of resets and the flow of the story is broken so that i can assimilate what is in the parentheses. in chap 2 for example you could say that the king was a Vijayanagara king with commas instead. I found a lot of examples where the parentheses were extraneous.

 

i don't know a lot about writing, like others here seem to, but i know what is readable in a fluid way, and i think that it would benefit the story to remove the extraneous parts and smooth the sentences where lengthy explanations are given, like when the traveler is introduced. It sounded scientific and precise, and i thought if it were looser and more casual, the story would read more fluidly

 

then again as someone else pointed out, perhaps its due to particularities of the Indian way of reading/writing, or something else done purposefully for your target audience. i must say i did not feel like your target audience

 

also agree with "show dont tell" and think that an eye to that would improve the writing

 

i like the content, and the simplicity of how it is presented. Its not flowery or adorned with extra words for their own sake, and the character of Bhadramanu is likable.

 

at the end of chap 2, perhaps it would serve the mystery of his accomplishment better to have him say that he would not be sure he could help? i found that strange that a person who claimed to be a stupid wanderer would hear a vague account of supernatural darkness and follow with "i think i can help"... seems perhaps he should keep up his ruse??

 

well im going to stop there, i started reading chap 3 but since i don't know enough about writing to offer truly helpful advice, i can only hope that my perspective is useful because i am ignorant. Apologies for all the criticism and the sparse complements, its nice to read your work, whether its written for americans or not lol

 

thank you for sharing

 

Very valuable feedback. Please keep it coming

 

As far as using "native" words is concerned -- I was writing as I visualized how a village setting would unfold in rural southern india. I am considering footnoting some of these, but the challenge is in retaining the originality of the interactions without translating...

Edited January 17, 2013 by dwai

[Birch]

Very valuable feedback. Please keep it coming

 

As far as using "native" words is concerned -- I was writing as I visualized how a village setting would unfold in rural southern india. I am considering footnoting some of these, but the challenge is in retaining the originality of the interactions without translating...

How do you reckon people would imagine the village through their senses? Would it be worth using that way in?

[Vmarco]

My post #10 is very much on topic. A critique was asked by dwai,...The stranger Bhadramanu could be a good lesson in groupthink stupidity. He said, "I am just an old homeless vagabond",...the people took that to mean he was a Sadhu. If the story continues and shows he was actually more than an old homeless vagabond,...1. he is a liar, and 2. it encourages the disgusting groupthink that those who don't know, and feign humility, are wise.

 

The Spoilers here that like to say I drag all or any threads off topics is utterly ridiculous,...and points to a larger neurosis,...of people not wanting light shined on anything that may contradict their beliefs.

 

Dwai can create all the dishonest, humble heros he wishes,...and zillions of followers of one who claims to be a homeless vagabond, although the folks in the story see his humility as proof that his countenance and presence is really a sadhu. So, is Bhadramanu a manipulative liar, or are the folks the dishonest one's,...believing that someone who claims he is not a sadhu, must be a great sadhu.

 

For me, I have thus far learned much from the dialogues in this this thread,...which is way I interact in threads. For me, as with Wei Wu Wei, "humility is just a degree of pride." This is quite threatening for sheeple who value humility as some grand character to possess. On a very fundamental level, a humble person is a heartless person,...because the threshold of the heart is end of belief.

 

Not only is Bhadramanu an old vagabond, but as he claimed, a stupid vagabond without any knowledge to share. Why can't the Srirangapura villages just accept the old vagabond for who he claims to be? Why can't they enjoy his company without projecting dishonest qualities to him?

 

Would a truth realized being claim to be a stupid vagabond without any knowledge to share, when asked? Such would be lie, would it not? Nevertheless, Madappa continues to see Bhadramanu as the presence of a powerful sadhu. In a way, Madappa could be considered as the President of the United States, and Bhadramanu as Chance the Gardener, in the film Being There.

[C T]

~ Thanks to everyone for all staying on topic here. It takes a village, as the saying goes. ~

 

 

mod team

Erh, how so there's no quasi-mod warning to Vmarco for ad-homineming.. calling names and such, eh? NOT to mention derailing yet another thread with his soundless views. Humility this, bodhisattva that... blehhhhh

 

you ought to think about giving yourself a warning, perhaps even suspend yourself from posting and modding, for obvious non-obvious shows of favor.

[三江源]

Erh, how so there's no quasi-mod warning to Vmarco for ad-homineming.. calling names and such, eh? NOT to mention derailing yet another thread with his soundless views. Humility this, bodhisattva that... blehhhhh

 

you ought to think about giving yourself a warning, perhaps even suspend yourself from posting and modding, for obvious non-obvious shows of favor.

I am sorry for your distress. Thankyou for your advice. The mod team has discussed this issue of the irritation VMarco causes some members.

[Apech]

Erh, how so there's no quasi-mod warning to Vmarco for ad-homineming.. calling names and such, eh? NOT to mention derailing yet another thread with his soundless views. Humility this, bodhisattva that... blehhhhh

 

you ought to think about giving yourself a warning, perhaps even suspend yourself from posting and modding, for obvious non-obvious shows of favor.

 

If his views were 'soundless' we wouldn't hear them .....

[C T]

If his views were 'soundless' we wouldn't hear them .....

they're just noise, Apech. clang, clang, clang... dinning... incessantly. Used to play vinyls on my dad's gramophone. You might have been too young to remember when . Loved Johnny Horton, and Patsy Cline. Fascinating experience, watching the image of the dog, with one ear to the speaker, goin round and round, 'his master's voice, his master's voice', round and round it goes. Used to put on the record just to get mesmerized, on a rainy day. Once in a while, one of 'em would get stuck, and the static noise would go, klich, zeeok, klich, zeeok.. somehow, this dinning in Vm's posts brought back some of those memories. I'd still rather listen to ol' JH and PC than Vm, must say.

 

Something is heard alright, mostly static tho.

 

Sorry for the nostalgic trippin'.

 

(spoiler alert)

[GrandmasterP]

If your audience is south Indians then it's fine dwai, they'll understand the references and terminology.

A good sub editor can internationalise any text it's what they do for a living.

Edited January 17, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[dwai]

If your audience is south Indians then it's fine dwai, they'll understand the references and terminology.

A good sub editor can internationalise any text it's what they do for a living.

 

Point well taken

 

What did you think of the rest of the chapters, plot so far etc?

[Vmarco]

My post #10 is very much on topic. A critique was asked by dwai,...The stranger Bhadramanu could be a good lesson in groupthink stupidity. He said, "I am just an old homeless vagabond",...the people took that to mean he was a Sadhu. If the story continues and shows he was actually more than an old homeless vagabond,...1. he is a liar, and 2. it encourages the disgusting groupthink that those who don't know, and feign humility, are wise.

 

The Spoilers here that like to say I drag all or any threads off topics is utterly ridiculous,...and points to a larger neurosis,...of people not wanting light shined on anything that may contradict their beliefs.

 

Dwai can create all the dishonest, humble heros he wishes,...and zillions of followers of one who claims to be a homeless vagabond, although the folks in the story see his humility as proof that his countenance and presence is really a sadhu. So, is Bhadramanu a manipulative liar, or are the folks the dishonest one's,...believing that someone who claims he is not a sadhu, must be a great sadhu.

 

For me, I have thus far learned much from the dialogues in this this thread,...which is way I interact in threads. For me, as with Wei Wu Wei, "humility is just a degree of pride." This is quite threatening for sheeple who value humility as some grand character to possess. On a very fundamental level, a humble person is a heartless person,...because the threshold of the heart is end of belief.

 

Not only is Bhadramanu an old vagabond, but as he claimed, a stupid vagabond without any knowledge to share. Why can't the Srirangapura villages just accept the old vagabond for who he claims to be? Why can't they enjoy his company without projecting dishonest qualities to him?

 

Would a truth realized being claim to be a stupid vagabond without any knowledge to share, when asked? Such would be lie, would it not? Nevertheless, Madappa continues to see Bhadramanu as the presence of a powerful sadhu. In a way, Madappa could be considered as the President of the United States, and Bhadramanu as Chance the Gardener, in the film Being There.

 

Yes, I appear to live in another consciousness than many,...I'm consistantly on subject, as the above shows, yet the Spoilers consistantly jab about my being off-topic,...go figure! The topic is critiquing dwai's narrative. To me, critique implies a meaningful review of what an author/artist is attempting to convey. Most often, written stories are really for the author,...their creative expression,...which most authors would of course like others to enjoy. For me, a really good story shines light upon something that was in the dark so-to-say,...especially something pointing to truth. Yes, such things are disturbing for many,...as someone once said, if truth upsets belief, then believers will kill the truth.

 

Personally, I haven't considered how to break-through the belief systems, or even discuss the belief systems of Southern India,...although my hero would certainly be a hijra, or family of hijra, devoted to Yin Awakening. Maybe Bhadramanu, the old stupid vagabond is on a pilgramage to the Temple of mother Chamundeshwari to be a hijra. But then, that would be more dishonesty, because an old stupid vagabond would not have the non-stupid goal of dedicating him/her self to the Mother.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Vmarco

[konchog uma]

If his views were 'soundless' we wouldn't hear them .....

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Vmarco. View it anyway?

[三江源]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Vmarco. View it anyway?

Excellent move away from what you repeatedly express that you neither enjoy nor find useful! Perfect use of ignore function, to avoid repetetive fruitless activation!

 

 

Self moderation is not just a utopian dream!!

[konchog uma]

for a while i felt like i had to police what was being passed off as the buddha-dharma, but yes am pretty happy ignoring, seeing as most buddhists here seem to share the opinion that he is misrepresenting it.

 

it irks me, and i have been working with it a lot lately... how stereotypically "buddhist" it is of me, and how i am feeding the whole scenario by giving it my attention. How its clear to everyone whats going on, and i don't need to involve myself in that capacity, how vmarco is completely closed to opinions that don't feed his own ego and so is not actually going to change for anyone pointing out the inconsistencies in his philosophy, and how everything is self-regulating: his actions generate his karma, and thats his problem. My actions don't have to be linked to the mess he creates... and my ego doesn't have to insulted just because someone else says offensive things. All of that and more... its been very eye-opening to see how i react so willingly to the candy that he dangles out there with his polemic and prejudices, with my own variety of same. ick. and i know he likes the attention because he is convinced that he has a liscense on truth and those who disagree with him are just doing it because they are wrong lol

 

Thanks for your encouragement to make TTB a more harmonious place. I'll do my best.

Edited January 17, 2013 by konchog uma

[GrandmasterP]

Point well taken What did you think of the rest of the chapters, plot so far etc?

I'd buy it to read on the train.

Enjoyed it so far but I love south India. I lived and worked in Valpoi for 5-years our R&R village was Bogmalo near Dabolim.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

advertising your efforts to ignore (someone) doesnt defeat the purpose? OR "rub it in"? just curious...

[Vmarco]

Yes, I appear to live in another consciousness than many,...I'm consistantly on subject, as the above shows, yet the Spoilers consistantly jab about my being off-topic,...go figure! The topic is critiquing dwai's narrative. To me, critique implies a meaningful review of what an author/artist is attempting to convey. Most often, written stories are really for the author,...their creative expression,...which most authors would of course like others to enjoy. For me, a really good story shines light upon something that was in the dark so-to-say,...especially something pointing to truth. Yes, such things are disturbing for many,...as someone once said, if truth upsets belief, then believers will kill the truth.

 

Personally, I haven't considered how to break-through the belief systems, or even discuss the belief systems of Southern India,...although my hero would certainly be a hijra, or family of hijra, devoted to Yin Awakening. Maybe Bhadramanu, the old stupid vagabond is on a pilgramage to the Temple of mother Chamundeshwari to be a hijra. But then, that would be more dishonesty, because an old stupid vagabond would not have the non-stupid goal of dedicating him/her self to the Mother.

 

Who derailed what? Inbetween the constructive dialogue here, a few Spoilers keep injecting their inappropriate emotional charges.

 

The first derailing of the thread was suggested by Sati, in #19, referring to himself,...the first ad hominem was by Konchog Uma in post #20. The chronology is easy to follow. The record is within the thread. CowTow chimes in at post #30 with nothing but contempt,...like Konchog uma, not even a flicker regarding the theme of the thread, while VMarco attempts to discuss the nuances around the theme of the thread. Nevertheless, Konchog Uma, along with CowTow, continue this "VMarco is off-topic and derailing the thread,...again I say, go figure!

 

For better clarity, the following phrases are not VMarco's, but dwai's words from his story:

Bhadramanu claims to be a stupid vagabond without any knowledge to share.

Madappa continues to see Bhadramanu as the presence of a powerful sadhu.

[The villagers see Bhadramanu's humility] as proof that his countenance and presence is really a sadhu.

 

Maybe Konchog Uma and CowTow didn't read dwai's narrative and just assumed VMarco was attacking him. No,...this is not an isolated case. CowTow has done the samething in every post I'm engaged in,...he attacks me, without even a modicum of attention to the subject of the thread.

 

Just because my posts upset some folks westernized view of Buddhism, is no reason for inconsiderateness and rudeness. On the other hand, this could be a valuable part of the story for dwai,...I'm sure the same groupthink occurs in Southern India. How do we get past the beliefs people cling to for their identity? Without such believers wanting to kill you for pointing out that what they have thought to meaningful,...things they spent a lifetime developing,...may be meaningless.

[dwai]

 

Who derailed what? Inbetween the constructive dialogue here, a few Spoilers keep injecting their inappropriate emotional charges.

 

The first derailing of the thread was suggested by Sati, in #19, referring to himself,...the first ad hominem was by Konchog Uma in post #20. The chronology is easy to follow. The record is within the thread. CowTow chimes in at post #30 with nothing but contempt,...like Konchog uma, not even a flicker regarding the theme of the thread, while VMarco attempts to discuss the nuances around the theme of the thread. Nevertheless, Konchog Uma, along with CowTow, continue this "VMarco is off-topic and derailing the thread,...again I say, go figure!

 

For better clarity, the following phrases are not VMarco's, but dwai's words from his story:

Bhadramanu claims to be a stupid vagabond without any knowledge to share.

Madappa continues to see Bhadramanu as the presence of a powerful sadhu.

[The villagers see Bhadramanu's humility] as proof that his countenance and presence is really a sadhu.

 

Maybe Konchog Uma and CowTow didn't read dwai's narrative and just assumed VMarco was attacking him. No,...this is not an isolated case. CowTow has done the samething in every post I'm engaged in,...he attacks me, without even a modicum of attention to the subject of the thread.

 

Just because my posts upset some folks westernized view of Buddhism, is no reason for inconsiderateness and rudeness. On the other hand, this could be a valuable part of the story for dwai,...I'm sure the same groupthink occurs in Southern India. How do we get past the beliefs people cling to for their identity? Without such believers wanting to kill you for pointing out that what they have thought to meaningful,...things they spent a lifetime developing,...may be meaningless.

 

Being a vagabond doesn't imply one is callin himself stupid.

 

And in eastern cultures bragging about one's accomplishments is considered rude. And a spiritual being (and mind you I haven't presented bhadramanu as being enlightened as such) is generally more humble because he sees the universe as this enormous place and his limited presence as a speck of sand...

 

An what's with the hijras? Maybe you should write a novel with them as primary characters. I chose to write what I did, well because I base the characters on some real ones I've ha the fortune of interacting with...

[GrandmasterP]

Hijras are great fun, those gals know how to entertain and have a party.

Konkani slang for a Hijra is a sixer

Edited January 17, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[JustARandomPanda]

Being a vagabond doesn't imply one is callin himself stupid. And in eastern cultures bragging about one's accomplishments is considered rude. And a spiritual being (and mind you I haven't presented bhadramanu as being enlightened as such) is generally more humble because he sees the universe as this enormous place and his limited presence as a speck of sand... An what's with the hijras? Maybe you should write a novel with them as primary characters. I chose to write what I did, well because I base the characters on some real ones I've ha the fortune of interacting with...

 

I looked up the paragraphs where the holy man discusses himself.

 

These seem to be relevant:

 

Here are the villagers pondering the stranger's profession:

 

 

Others have differing opinions on whether he was a Sadhu or not...for he sure did have an air of serenity and quite strength about it (most unusual for a destitute beggar).

 

 

So already the author foreshadows to the reader that the stranger - no matter what the stranger says in upcoming dialogue - is not what he is going to claim to be - ie: a simple, wandering vagabond.

 

The above makes the subsequent paragraphs ordinary. And to an American reader - unnecessary. We've already been told to discount the nice, polite replies of being a simple beggar. In other words...the American reader can safely skim or even skip the first two chapters and absolutely nothing crucial to that story or characters will be lost.

 

Don't think an editor of a publishing house wouldn't notice that either. They will.

 

Could you see George RR Martin starting off the first page of Game of Thrones showing Ned Stark being just as honorable or humble as Bhadramanu? Sure. That's why everyone was ticked off when Ned was removed from the story.

 

This is one reason why from the first page I got the strong sense this story is not meant for an Anglo market. From GrandmasterP's posts it seems it fits better with an Indian one.

 

 

 

 

"My name is Bhadramanu, and I am an old homeless, wandering nomad. I am on my way to the Temple of mother Chamundeshwari in Kanakapura and felt that traveling through Srirangapura would be beneficial. As I can see now, my instinct was accurate...I got to meet such wonderful people such as my esteemed company right now!

 

 

 

Rameshanna, the short, skinny barber interjected, in his high-pitched voice -- "So you are a Swami, going to visit your deity Mother Chamundeshwari" and turning to the rest of his friends he crowed "See I was right..I was right...he IS a Sadhu".

 

Bhadramanu smiled gently and said "Dear Sir, you would be right in saying I am a devotee of Ma Chamundi, but I am not really a Sadhu...I am just an old homeless vagabond who has entrusted his life and everything else linked with it to the Divine Mother".

 

 

 

Bhadramanu, who was already very touched by the generosity and affection of these obviously not so well-off villagers towards a total stranger said "Dear Sir, I will gladly stay with you at your home if it is not too much of a burden to you. But like I said, I am a stupid vagabond, I don't really have any blessings or knowledge to share. However, if you do think there is something of mine that would benefit you, please ask and I will do everything in my capacity to respect your requests."

 

 

Hmm...Bhadramanu did call himself stupid and with no knowledge to share just like VMarco said!

But why? To be playing the game of courtesy? But why? Is this necessary to introduce the plot? To give a sense of who this character is? But the author's already foreshadowed to the readers (reinforced at intervals in the next 2 chapters) to discount whatever Bhadramanu says of himself. And if Bhadramanu doesn't want to say what he is (because cultural habits don't permit it since it's seen as being a 'braggart' and 'displaying Ego' rather than just a statement of fact that the author hints to the reader is the case) why not just have Bhadramanu remain silent when the villagers keep asking his "profession"? I'm guessing that alone, if it actually happened in India for real might lead to a less cliched opening.

 

Maybe for an Indian market the 2 chapters displaying blow-by-blow accounts of courtesy habits is what's required to get published on fan fic sites. I'm assuming this is for fan fic, yes? Or is it bound for eventual printed booksales?

 

For an American market a lot of it is filler and not necessary unless it interweaves the plot problem directly into those 2 chapter scenes. If Bhadramanu is not merely what he claims to be - ie - he's something more than just yet another old homeless beggar coming to suck off the tits of every householder in that Indian village till the day he dies - I'd consider finding a way to turn the whole 'courtesies exchanged' opening upside down or dump it altogether.

 

Unless this story IS meant primarily for other Indians. In which case disregard what I said as I know nothing about what it takes to get a fan following in India or among Indians.

[dwai]

I looked up the paragraphs where the holy man discusses himself.

 

These seem to be relevant:

 

Here are the villagers pondering the stranger's profession:

 

 

 

 

 

So already the author foreshadows to the reader that the stranger - no matter what the stranger says in upcoming dialogue - is not what he is going to claim to be - ie: a simple, wandering vagabond.

 

The above makes the subsequent paragraphs ordinary. And to an American reader - unnecessary. We've already been told to discount the nice, polite replies of being a simple beggar. In other words...the American reader can safely skim or even skip the first two chapters and absolutely nothing crucial to that story or characters will be lost.

 

Don't think an editor of a publishing house wouldn't notice that either. They will.

 

Could you see George RR Martin starting off the first page of Game of Thrones showing Ned Stark being just as honorable or humble as Bhadramanu? Sure. That's why everyone was ticked off when Ned was removed from the story.

 

This is one reason why from the first page I got the strong sense this story is not meant for an Anglo market. From GrandmasterP's posts it seems it fits better with an Indian one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm...Bhadramanu did call himself stupid and with no knowledge to share just like VMarco said!

But why? To be playing the game of courtesy? But why? Is this necessary to introduce the plot? To give a sense of who this character is? But the author's already foreshadowed to the readers (reinforced at intervals in the next 2 chapters) to discount whatever Bhadramanu says of himself. And if Bhadramanu doesn't want to say what he is (because cultural habits don't permit it since it's seen as being a 'braggart' and 'displaying Ego' rather than just a statement of fact that the author hints to the reader is the case) why not just have Bhadramanu remain silent when the villagers keep asking his "profession"? I'm guessing that alone, if it actually happened in India for real might lead to a less cliched opening.

 

Maybe for an Indian market the 2 chapters displaying blow-by-blow accounts of courtesy habits is what's required to get published on fan fic sites. I'm assuming this is for fan fic, yes? Or is it bound for eventual printed booksales?

 

For an American market a lot of it is filler and not necessary unless it interweaves the plot problem directly into those 2 chapter scenes. If Bhadramanu is not merely what he claims to be - ie - he's something more than just yet another old homeless beggar coming to suck off the tits of every householder in that Indian village till the day he dies - I'd consider finding a way to turn the whole 'courtesies exchanged' opening upside down or dump it altogether.

 

Unless this story IS meant primarily for other Indians. In which case disregard what I said as I know nothing about what it takes to get a fan following in India or among Indians.

 

Indeed! But haent there been instances of lao tzu calling himself a fool...various zen masters etc.

Why does it hAve to be construed as "false" humility? How do you know that the character himself doesn't actually consider what he knows as being nothing?

 

Why does there have to be a driving need to gratify the ego by acknowledging one's knowledge as being something other than inconsequential in the grand scheme of things?

 

Thr story isn't particularly for indians...it is set in rural india where people tend to not take themselves too seriously even today (although it is changing fast due to rampant urbanization).

 

If i were to write about africa or native americans or where-ever else, i would represent those cultures in a way that is congruent with their reality.

 

Do the western sensibilities find it hard to accept that there can be differences in the way entire socieities percieve themselves and interact with one another? ( ie different from how it is done in the west)

 

Now one might be driven to inquire why i wrote in this setting? Well the answer is because i spent 26 years of my life there and it is my native culture.

 

[Vmarco]

Being a vagabond doesn't imply one is callin himself stupid. And in eastern cultures bragging about one's accomplishments is considered rude. And a spiritual being (and mind you I haven't presented bhadramanu as being enlightened as such) is generally more humble because he sees the universe as this enormous place and his limited presence as a speck of sand... An what's with the hijras? Maybe you should write a novel with them as primary characters. I chose to write what I did, well because I base the characters on some real ones I've ha the fortune of interacting with...

 

I didn't say a vagabond is stupid,...you wrote: that Bhadramanu claimed he was a stupid vagabond without any knowledge to share....upon which the villagers knew he must be an important sadhu. Here is the fuller quote:

 

 

Bhadramanu smiled gently and said "Dear Sir, you would be right in saying I am a devotee of Ma Chamundi, but I am not really a Sadhu...I am just an old homeless vagabond who has entrusted his life and everything else linked with it to the Divine Mother". Madappa chimed in "Dear Swamiji, please accept our humble veneration, because even if you do claim that you are not a Sadhu, we can see in your countenance and presence that you are one. Please stay at my humble abode for as long as you would like, to rest up for your journey to Kanakapura. Should you want it, we do have occasional buses traveling between our Village and Kanakapura. As I recall, the State Transport bus does come by this way every Monday. Since today is a Wednesday, you have a whole four days you could spend with us and bless us lowly villagers".

 

Bhadramanu, who was already very touched by the generosity and affection of these obviously not so well-off villagers towards a total stranger said "Dear Sir, I will gladly stay with you at your home if it is not too much of a burden to you. But like I said, I am a stupid vagabond, I don't really have any blessings or knowledge to share. However, if you do think there is something of mine that would benefit you, please ask and I will do everything in my capacity to respect your requests."

 

What I take from this, as already mentioned, either Bhadramanu is dishonest, or the villagers, especially Madappa, is dishonest.

 

In addition, you seem quite confused about the difference between bragging, and answering a question honestly. Bhadramanu supposed honest response to if he was a sadhu was no, that he was a stupid vagabond without any knowledge to share. That is what you wrote. If he turns out to be some sort of sadhu, than he has blantantly lied.

 

I thought of hijras with the comments about the Mother Temple. That which is beyond wisdom is called prajna in Buddhism. Ever see a statue of Prajnaparamita? When the male monk Avalokitesvara realized prajna (a feminine noun) he became the female Bodhisattva of Compassion, Guan Yin. Doesn't matter how this occurred,...it did occur,...and like the Japanese Bodhisattvas Nikko and Gakko, males becoming Bodhisattvas evolve feminine qualities.

 

A Zen Buddhist once said, "The very qualities of being a disciple are the qualities which are feminine -- receptivity, openness, trust, love, a deep surrender. And if a man becomes a disciple, he will automatically grow qualities which are female. There is nothing wrong in it. Qualities are qualities, and all beautiful qualities are feminine -- love and trust and compassion and gratitude and surrender. All beautiful qualities are feminine.

 

It is not a question concerned with your sexuality; your being a male or female has many dimensions. One of the dimensions is that there are qualities intrinsic to females which make them easily disciples. There are men who have those qualities -- those qualities are not the monopoly of anybody. There are men who are more soft than any woman, more loving than any woman, more grateful than any woman -- but the qualities are feminine."

Edited January 18, 2013 by Vmarco

[JustARandomPanda]

Indeed! But haent there been instances of lao tzu calling himself a fool...various zen masters etc. Why does it hAve to be construed as "false" humility? How do you know that the character himself doesn't actually consider what he knows as being nothing?

 

Legit point but then I'd say that the scene needs to be re-written to 'show, don't tell' how this holy man knows that he doesn't know. Otherwise the next 2 chapters can be skipped and nothing important about the holy man will be missed.

 

Why does there have to be a driving need to gratify the ego by acknowledging one's knowledge as being something other than inconsequential in the grand scheme of things?

 

Or he could remain silent?

 

It's true the holy man can certainly follow south Indian courtesy conventions for 2 chapters but you'll lose a lot of potential readers (maybe mostly Anglos?) because there's other stories to be read (Patanjali, get over here! ) that could teach the same.

 

 

Thr story isn't particularly for indians...it is set in rural india where people tend to not take themselves too seriously even today (although it is changing fast due to rampant urbanization). If i were to write about africa or native americans or where-ever else, i would represent those cultures in a way that is congruent with their reality.

 

Yup. Agreed it's best to write what one's familiar with although I've known some people who did write a story set in a foreign culture and still made it believable - Clan of the Cave Bears for example (don't believe there's anyone still alive that remembers paleolithic tribal habits...)

 

Do the western sensibilities find it hard to accept that there can be differences in the way entire socieities percieve themselves and interact with one another?

 

No. Although the Indian village thing is not so different from what I've seen in deep rural Texas when one man extended courtesy to another stranger and inviting him into his home. If commonalities did not exist it'd not be possible for literature to cross from one culture to another.

 

( ie different from how it is done in the west) Now one might be driven to inquire why i wrote in this setting? Well the answer is because i spent 26 years of my life there and it is my native culture.

 

Keep it going!

 

I'm just pointing out things I think could be seen from a different perspective that might increase interest in the story but as always anything I write should be taken with a grain of salt. I may critique hard but your actual sentence structure - flow from one sentence to the next is actually very good! Much better than a lot of fan fic I've read on the web so I can tell you've either practiced at it or have an innate skill for it.

 

You've actually got the skeleton of what could become a really good story. I could see how this could be an interesting commentary on society, conventions, politics, customs, unconscious habits and who knows what else.

 

Look at how Frank Herbert wrote the character Paul Atreides. With one theme being about a 'holy man with insight' (Muad Dib) who's 'myth' grows larger than even that man could recognize (and thus in the sequel Paul Muad Dib ran from the 'myth' his own actions had helped to create).

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. I'll bow out Dwai. For what it's worth I think you've got talent when it comes to writing and I'm not saying that to flatter or whatnot. I know getting critiqued is hard business to endure even when one has asked for it (*remembers the days of having my paintings critiqued to utter shreds by teachers, classmates and strangers alike*)

Edited January 18, 2013 by SereneBlue

[dwai]

 

Legit point but then I'd say that the scene needs to be re-written to 'show, don't tell' how this holy man knows that he doesn't know. Otherwise the next 2 chapters can be skipped and nothing important about the holy man will be missed.

 

 

Or he could remain silent?

 

It's true the holy man can certainly follow south Indian courtesy conventions for 2 chapters but you'll lose a lot of potential readers (maybe mostly Anglos?) because there's other stories to be read (Patanjali, get over here! ) that could teach the same.

 

 

 

Yup. Agreed it's best to write what one's familiar with although I've known some people who did write a story set in a foreign culture and still made it believable - Clan of the Cave Bears for example (don't believe there's anyone still alive that remembers paleolithic tribal habits...)

 

 

No. Although the Indian village thing is not so different from what I've seen in deep rural Texas when one man extended courtesy to another stranger and inviting him into his home. If commonalities did not exist it'd not be possible for literature to cross from one culture to another.

 

 

Keep it going!

 

I'm just pointing out things I think could be seen from a different perspective that might increase interest in the story but as always anything I write should be taken with a grain of salt. I may critique hard but your actual sentence structure - flow from one sentence to the next is actually very good! Much better than a lot of fan fic I've read on the web so I can tell you've either practiced at it or have an innate skill for it.

 

You've actually got the skeleton of what could become a really good story. I could see how this could be an interesting commentary on society, conventions, politics, customs, unconscious habits and who knows what else.

 

Look at how Frank Herbert wrote the character Paul Atreides. With one theme being about a 'holy man with insight' (Muad Dib) who's 'myth' grows larger than even that man could recognize (and thus in the sequel Paul Muad Dib ran from the 'myth' his own actions had helped to create).

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. I'll bow out Dwai. For what it's worth I think you've got talent when it comes to writing and I'm not saying that to flatter or whatnot. I know getting critiqued is hard business to endure even when one has asked for it (*remembers the days of having my paintings critiqued to utter shreds by teachers, classmates and strangers alike*)

 

I'm afraid you misunderstood my questions/responses. I'm not questioning your motivations so much as pointing out flaws in the line of questioning taken by vmarco and therebt coloring this discussion. It's his/her prerogative and I have indeed asked for open feedback.

 

I am grateful for the feedback and it has made me see the work developed so far with a different perspective.

 

It has helped me overcome writers' block (at least so it seems) so thanks once again.

 

I would like to post more (there are actually three somewhat independent sections that develop to culminate in what I foresee as the grand finale) but I'm afraid if I let too much out of the bag, what remains is not going to be compelling enough to generate buyers (I intend to sell the book as an e-book on amazon or some similar site).

 

The question is, is what you've read so far compelling enough to want to know what happens?

 

Note: I intend to credit the participants of the forum in my book as your feedback has been invaluable.

 

I have written short stories and columns before but never a full length novel - so this is my first

[JustARandomPanda]

I'm afraid you misunderstood my questions/responses. I'm not questioning your motivations so much as pointing out flaws in the line of questioning taken by vmarco and therebt coloring this discussion. It's his/her prerogative and I have indeed asked for open feedback.

 

I am grateful for the feedback and it has made me see the work developed so far with a different perspective.

 

It has helped me overcome writers' block (at least so it seems) so thanks once again.

 

I would like to post more (there are actually three somewhat independent sections that develop to culminate in what I foresee as the grand finale) but I'm afraid if I let too much out of the bag, what remains is not going to be compelling enough to generate buyers (I intend to sell the book as an e-book on amazon or some similar site).

 

The question is, is what you've read so far compelling enough to want to know what happens?

 

Note: I intend to credit the participants of the forum in my book as your feedback has been invaluable.

 

I have written short stories and columns before but never a full length novel - so this is my first

 

Ah! This makes sense.

 

Ok. My angle was not really so much like VMarco's. I don't have any kind of meditative insights to offer - certainly zero Prajna so I'm unable to say whether VMarco has a point or whether his criticizers do. Hopefully someday that will change but until then I am not qualified to judge accurately what anyone says yay or nay on the matter.

 

I was only coming at it from the angle of 'does this or that scene/dialogue/situation' etc either 1. move the plot forward or 2. 'round out' the character so he/she doesn't come across as flat or just a cypher for someone's idea(s) of 'spiritual or political truth(s)'.

 

Take a look at C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia for the latter. It's a testament to Lewis' skill as a writer that the stories are liked by many despite his shoving his religious truths down his readers throats in those stories.

 

For yet another example of a writer shoving 'truths' down readers throats take a look at Ayn Rand. Ditto with Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. I got mega sick of Goodkind constantly making his characters preach Rand-ian political beliefs and stopped reading the series for that very reason (would it surprise you to know that Goodkind cites Ayn Rand as his main political/philosopher hero who's influenced his thinking about life?).

 

I'm hopeful you aren't bent on becoming the next Ayn Rand or C.S. Lewis.

 

Writing stories about a 'holy' person can be tough because there's a real danger of falling into the cypher trap despite one's intent to not do so.