Questions regarding introduction to Taoist Meditation

[Scottk]

Hello everyone! I have been a quiet member of The Tao Bums for a little while now--you may have read my essay on Yin and Yang and the Authentic Life--, but I would like to ask for some advice on something I am extremely interested in.

 

A short background about myself. I am a 19 year old college student studying Economics, Philosophy, and Chinese among other things. I have always harbored a special appreciation for nature and feeling the world around me. Until recently, I was completely unaware of what Taoism was; however, once I began the chapter of my life in college, a lot has changed. Chinese culture and philosophy interests me so much, in fact, that I am studying in China for a semester abroad next year! Every passing day I maintain a feeling of peace with myself and the world around me but I am eager to learn the steps to a more serious understanding The Way--opening of channels, and cultivation of energy specifically.

 

There you have it, I am a student willing to learn and if one of you would be so kind as to give me good places to start I would be very grateful. I am in fine physical and mental shape... but I would now like to learn of methods to introduce a deeper energy and the "vibrations" or "electric currents" that I have read so much about on this very forum.

 

I have a joke of a grip on proper breathing (the extent of my knowledge is using my belly more, and breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth); In terms of mediation, I merely sit in quiet and breath deeply while releasing my thoughts (which is hard to do, so I normally focus on counting in Chinese and drawing the characters in my head).

 

Thank you all very much for reading my note. Any help is appreciated. If you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask!

 

- Scott , 我的中文名字是斯明磊。

[deci belle]

How wonderful, Scott!! What ever you do, make it subtle. Reality is subtle. Entry is subtle. The breath should be subtle …seemingly existent, virtually nonexistent~ no different than the way.

 

Whatever is going on you watch subtly for the subtleties, then you will be aware of the subtle changes, both inside and outside and be able to follow them, matching your potential to the reality. From beginning to end, I am not just speaking of meditation, only the style of adapting to conditions.

 

Keeping a subtle continuous concentration, after a long time, you return. When you reach sufficiency, withdraw energy and rest in silence. Then you re-enter the marketplace.❤

[deci belle]

❤

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Subtle.

[ChiDragon]

I have a joke of a grip on proper breathing (the extent of my knowledge is using my belly more, and breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth); In terms of mediation, I merely sit in quiet and breath deeply while releasing my thoughts (which is hard to do, so I normally focus on counting in Chinese and drawing the characters in my head).

 

 

- Scott , 我的中文名字是斯明磊。

 

斯明磊:

 

光明磊落.........

This is good enough for good start. At least, you know how to breathe.....

Edited January 16, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Scottk]

How wonderful, Scott!! What ever you do, make it subtle. Reality is subtle. Entry is subtle. The breath should be subtle …seemingly existent, virtually nonexistent~ no different than the way.

 

Whatever is going on you watch subtly for the subtleties, then you will be aware of the subtle changes, both inside and outside and be able to follow them, matching your potential to the reality. From beginning to end, I am not just speaking of meditation, only the style of adapting to conditions.

 

Keeping a subtle continuous concentration, after a long time, you return. When you reach sufficiency, withdraw energy and rest in silence. Then you re-enter the marketplace.❤

 

 

Thank you for the exquisite definition of the subtle existence. It is almost analogous to something like wu-wei the way I see it. What you wrote reminds me the times I have spent laying in a tree on the edge of my yard... but yet, I have also had times where in the very vivid and bustling societal world, I have found these subtleties you speak of. Either way, your advice and wisdom is much appreciated!

 

斯明磊:

 

光明磊落.........

This is good enough for good start. At least, you know how to breathe.....

 

I appreciate the wisdom of 光明磊落. I will do my best to figure out the proper translation of the characters, or what you intended me to find. Other than a good place to start, where would I go next? In terms of more practical exercises I can perform in my spare time to raise my awareness of my energy?

 

谢谢您！

 

[ChiDragon]

I appreciate the wisdom of 光明磊落. I will do my best to figure out the proper translation of the characters, or what you intended me to find. Other than a good place to start, where would I go next? In terms of more practical exercises I can perform in my spare time to raise my awareness of my energy?

 

谢谢您！

 

 

Here is a good place to start in breathing for Chu Kung

[joeblast]

http://internalart.tripod.com/the%20art%20of%20meditation/breathing.htm

 

Hm. Just so long as you're ok with dealing with misnomers like "the diaphragm contracting upward" or context of "yang expanding" or the incorrect drawing regarding the descending of the thoracic diaphragm with the drawing showing the descent/ascent taking place from the middle and not emphasizing the correct connection at the bottom rear of the diaphragm. Or reverse breathing focusing on the front of the abdomen (many other people make that fundamental error too though)...or any notion of ascending the thoracic diaphragm on the exhale (which is really relaxation, and if your breath mechanics are not coherent enough then an assist from the front of the abdomen will serve the purpose well.) Or lesser things like the diaphragm drawn in at the heart level. Are you picky enough to point out there's 6 sides and not 4?

 

If you're uncertain about technicalities...unfortunately those descriptions, while they contain many pieces of good information, they contain some misunderstandings and minor errors - and if you're a beginner it might leave you in circles if some of those contentious statements are taken as gospel. The natural abdominal breathing is a decent description but the reverse description is lacking and I'd advise further investigation.

 

Perhaps these misnomers are mistranslations or something, but I find that these little things are best corrected right from the start, lest incorrect habits be ingrained and then you will encounter glass ceilings in your meditation and will have to figure out why, troubleshoot your body in order to get past them. Just understand that page doesnt necessarily point to the most fundamental aspects of that which it is trying to teach, at least from a breath mechanics standpoint.

 

(Sorry cd, I had to and only because I too learned from information such as this, and I had to troubleshoot my way past it in order to get deeper, and without having done that I would not know these whys....)

Edited January 17, 2013 by joeblast

[ChiDragon]

As a beginner, one should start with something simple for easy understanding and disregard all other expert's opinions.

[joeblast]

All the more reason to weed out incorrect concepts and statements I'm sorry you have such an attachment to being correct, but it is what it is, my criticisms of your approach are valid - its just sad you have to sidestep them without analyzing and practicing for yourself to discover the efficacy.

 

For instance, deeper investigation reveals the mechanism by which one would use a muscle to raise the diaphragm - the pulmonary ligament. Would one really want to pull from the lung, on the pericardium and heart, to the attachment on the diaphragm in order to lift it? That is a preposterous notion since it causes tension in the heart area, which will feed back into the vagus nerve, propagate neural signals that will wind up in higher brain centers, manifesting thought and discomfort from the tension.

 

Why would one ignore such things?

[ChiDragon]

When one breathes normally and deeply, what will be taken place inside the body will be taken place. It just happens spontaneously. There is no special skill was needed for the movement of the diaphragm but the ultimate breathing technique.

As a beginner, one should start with something simple for easy understanding and disregard all other expert's opinions and get confused.

Edited January 17, 2013 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

hahaha....disregard all other experts' opinions....who says THAT?!?!?![/b

 

I encourage listening to other masters and experts. Experience counts. Now I am done with this silly charade we get into every time you are corrected.

[ChiDragon]

As a beginner, use common sense, one should start with something simple for easy understanding and disregard all other expert's opinions from being getting confused.

Edited January 17, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Friend]

Edited January 18, 2013 by Friend

[Scottk]

http://internalart.tripod.com/the%20art%20of%20meditation/breathing.htm

 

Hm. Just so long as you're ok with dealing with misnomers like "the diaphragm contracting upward" or context of "yang expanding" or the incorrect drawing regarding the descending of the thoracic diaphragm with the drawing showing the descent/ascent taking place from the middle and not emphasizing the correct connection at the bottom rear of the diaphragm. Or reverse breathing focusing on the front of the abdomen (many other people make that fundamental error too though)...or any notion of ascending the thoracic diaphragm on the exhale (which is really relaxation, and if your breath mechanics are not coherent enough then an assist from the front of the abdomen will serve the purpose well.) Or lesser things like the diaphragm drawn in at the heart level. Are you picky enough to point out there's 6 sides and not 4?

 

If you're uncertain about technicalities...unfortunately those descriptions, while they contain many pieces of good information, they contain some misunderstandings and minor errors - and if you're a beginner it might leave you in circles if some of those contentious statements are taken as gospel. The natural abdominal breathing is a decent description but the reverse description is lacking and I'd advise further investigation.

 

Perhaps these misnomers are mistranslations or something, but I find that these little things are best corrected right from the start, lest incorrect habits be ingrained and then you will encounter glass ceilings in your meditation and will have to figure out why, troubleshoot your body in order to get past them. Just understand that page doesnt necessarily point to the most fundamental aspects of that which it is trying to teach, at least from a breath mechanics standpoint.

 

(Sorry cd, I had to and only because I too learned from information such as this, and I had to troubleshoot my way past it in order to get deeper, and without having done that I would not know these whys....)

 

Thanks for giving me some clarification on any fallacies or misunderstandings that the link provided. I am sure, on a shallow and basic level, the link offers some interesting drawings and simple advice to get me started. Troubleshooting my way past improperly learned procedures is half the fun though, isn't it?

As a beginner, one should start with something simple for easy understanding and disregard all other expert's opinions.

 

I see where you are coming from with this advice for myself. Being a beginner, it is critical that I take slow steps and ease my way into the simple things like breathing deeply and experiencing the world around me. I appreciate the thought, but I must say that the second part of your advice seems a little contradictory to the first. If you consider yourself an expert on this sort of thing--you seem very knowledgeable about 道--then wouldn't I have to disregard your teachings if given this same advice from another person? Regardless, your help is always appreciated. 光明磊落。谢谢您。

You go and visit from memberTaoistEasy Personal Practise Discussion Meditation Room

and learn there and make your expirience.

 

 

Else if you want work with breath start with this:

1.Breath out and hold the palm flat below your nose.

2.Feel the air when you breath out of your nose on your palm.

3.Making the distance bigger, you will find a specific angle and distance you still feel the breath is coiling in the whole palm.

4.When you do breathing breath from this place and to this place.

 

Specific attention: It is to test each time this place as it change because of the many influences in enviroment

and on personal rhythm. And it depends on your postion is, it even change over time in a meditation because

breathing gets more volume deeper and so the flow in an out of nose has a deeper point

 

If your breath correctly. You automatically have a strong breathing as it strength switching the diaphragm and you fill strenghtening effect and focus.

You can call it "Azure Dragon Breath Flames".(I like flashy name, between us there are some dragon where the flames come out from the nose if they not breath it from their mouth.)

 

"Azure Dragon Breath Flames" is a very flashy name indeed! Being a fan of dragons myself, the name is spectacular and I must admit I like it a lot too! As for the steps about the palm and air coming out of my nose, it seems like a good start to gauging where my breathing strength is currently. I appreciate you teaching me this technique! I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.

[ChiDragon]

Sorry, I should have said:
As a beginner, one should start with something simple for easy understanding and disregard all other expert's advanced advices for now.

BTW I had edited my original comment to this:

As a beginner, use common sense, one should start with something simple for easy understanding and disregard all other expert's opinions from being getting confused.

 

 

 

I see where you are coming from with this advice for myself. Being a beginner, it is critical that I take slow steps and ease my way into the simple things like breathing deeply and experiencing the world around me. I appreciate the thought, but I must say that the second part of your advice seems a little contradictory to the first. If you consider yourself an expert on this sort of thing--you seem very knowledgeable about 道--then wouldn't I have to disregard your teachings if given this same advice from another person? Regardless, your help is always appreciated. 光明磊落。谢谢您。

Edited January 18, 2013 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

Thanks for giving me some clarification on any fallacies or misunderstandings that the link provided. I am sure, on a shallow and basic level, the link offers some interesting drawings and simple advice to get me started. Troubleshooting my way past improperly learned procedures is half the fun though, isn't it?

On a basic level, yes. You'll have troubleshooting to do regardless, though - best to clear up any misunderstandings sooner rather than later!

[ChiDragon]

Some TTB members were jumping the gun in learning "sexual energy"; the first they do were starting to masturbate and have internal pain problems. Yes, how much can one tell them before it was too late.

[Scottk]

On a basic level, yes. You'll have troubleshooting to do regardless, though - best to clear up any misunderstandings sooner rather than later!

 

I couldn't agree more! Once more, thank you for the help so far. Another member of TTB sent me a link to

which seems like a pretty good video to begin with in some basic techniques. What is your opinion?

 

 

Some TTB members were jumping the gun in learning "sexual energy"; the first they do were starting to masturbate and have internal pain problems. Yes, how much can one tell them before it was too late.

 

 

* This reply ended up being weird, so I apologize. That does sound like a difficult thing to master and I have read about it quite a bit myself. To me, it seems like more trouble than it is worth for now-- I don't want to injure myself or place my body in a case of irrevocable damage. Thank you for the heads-up!

Edited January 18, 2013 by Scottk

[ChiDragon]

The basic principles for Chi Kung are simply cultivating in breathing, mind and body. Breathing is the primary cultivating factor; and the rest like the slow movements and the mind cultivation done spontaneously are secondary. The combination of all these three factors are considered as an integral part of the Chi Kung practice. Anything else mentioned are just cosmetics. Please keep in mind as the basic fundamental, breathing is a must for Chi Kung practice. Indeed, without performing breathing, then it was considered not to be Chi Kung. It is because Chi Kung is to ultimate method of breathing.

In the video, you're kept on hearing gathering chi into your body; in other words, you are actually breathing air(空氣) or oxygen(氧氣) into your body.

Edited January 18, 2013 by ChiDragon

[hydrogen]

Some TTB members were jumping the gun in learning "sexual energy"; the first they do were starting to masturbate and have internal pain problems. Yes, how much can one tell them before it was too late.

 

Scott,

 

You're very young at age of 19. Sex is going to be a hard problem for you to control if you're normal hot blooded young guy.

Sexual energy is very strong. How can you ignore it? The energy won't disapper by itself. It has to go somewhere or converts into other form of energy.

 

Having proper sex with someone you love is the best method. What would you do if you're single? Learn to masturbate properly without frequent ejaculation.

 

Don't feel ashamed of sex, which is part of you. Learn to live whit it in harmony.

[ChiDragon]

I think Scottk's intention was to learn meditation rather than masturbation. Please don't read my post mistakenly to mislead him. I was only making the statement as an illustration to respond to joeblast's comment. Thanks.....

[Ya Mu]

Hello everyone! I have been a quiet member of The Tao Bums for a little while now--you may have read my essay on Yin and Yang and the Authentic Life--, but I would like to ask for some advice on something I am extremely interested in.

 

A short background about myself. I am a 19 year old college student studying Economics, Philosophy, and Chinese among other things. I have always harbored a special appreciation for nature and feeling the world around me. Until recently, I was completely unaware of what Taoism was; however, once I began the chapter of my life in college, a lot has changed. Chinese culture and philosophy interests me so much, in fact, that I am studying in China for a semester abroad next year! Every passing day I maintain a feeling of peace with myself and the world around me but I am eager to learn the steps to a more serious understanding The Way--opening of channels, and cultivation of energy specifically.

 

There you have it, I am a student willing to learn and if one of you would be so kind as to give me good places to start I would be very grateful. I am in fine physical and mental shape... but I would now like to learn of methods to introduce a deeper energy and the "vibrations" or "electric currents" that I have read so much about on this very forum.

 

I have a joke of a grip on proper breathing (the extent of my knowledge is using my belly more, and breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth); In terms of mediation, I merely sit in quiet and breath deeply while releasing my thoughts (which is hard to do, so I normally focus on counting in Chinese and drawing the characters in my head).

 

Thank you all very much for reading my note. Any help is appreciated. If you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask!

 

- Scott , 我的中文名字是斯明磊。

 

Here is a resource for qigong teachers mostly in USA.

http://nqa.org/find-member/

Level IV teachers have at least 10 years of teaching experience with the NQA doing extensive investigation and evaluation of the teacher's credentials. You ask about energy; be aware some "qigong" systems do not much for cultivating energy and are more oriented as health exercises. For exercise I like rebounding as the single most efficient health exercise.

[ChiDragon]

"You ask about energy; be aware some "qigong" systems do not much for cultivating energy and are more oriented as health exercises."

If a gigong system does not much for cultivation energy, then nothing does. A healthy body requires more energy; how do we expect to have a better health without cultivating energy....???

Edited January 24, 2013 by ChiDragon

[lifeforce]

Surely, this should be one of the most important aspects when practicing qigong.

 

health exercises