Non-duality links.

[GrandmasterP]

http://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/jeff-foster/links/

 

Who would have imagined that there was such a non-duality cottage industry?

Lots of links above.

[Vmarco]

"In recent years, those who lecture on sitting meditation all understand Taoism, and understand Esoteric Buddhism, and are full of things to say. But when we take a look to see how they really are, it doesn't seem that way at all. As for whether they have achieved anything or not, whether they have found realization or not one glance and it is obvious that they have not." Nan Huai-Chin

 

"99.9% of the World's so-called wisdom, East and West, for the purposes of awakening, is about as useful as a glass of warm spit with a hair in it." Jed McKenna

 

In the above "non-dual cottage industry" list, most are theists,...how can a believer in theism have any truth to offer? How is it that these so-called experts cannot even define duality in any honest way, yet are articulating a variety of nonsense on non-duality?

 

There is truth, and there are lies,...all theists filter their experiences through lies.

 

Any experience born of belief, can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. All belief are lies.

[voidisyinyang]

Hopefully this won't be another long thread of people dueling out their concepts.

 

haha.

 

I agree though that the nondual scene is full of fakes.

 

Primarily the main error is to think of formless awareness as a static "state."

 

As Master Nan, Huai-chin says there are different levels of Emptiness and there are different levels of consciousness.

 

It's an infinite process of someone's consciousness going into the Emptiness.

 

The "white male enlightenment" scene primarily teaches "mind yoga" -- and you get the racism of Ken Wilber, as pointed out by Dr. Bradford Keeney (and myself in my masters thesis)....

 

you get the various mind control cults -- of which Andrew Harvey has been implicated... among others.

 

Ramana Maharshi as the main original nondual teacher came from a tradition of Brahminism -- and so the mind yoga worked -- but depended on specific conditions that most would not agree to today.

 

Those are just some caveats -- of course finding real energy masters is very difficult in today's world -- awash with new age gurus.

 

So as H.W.L. Poonjaji complained - his nondual Western students mainly ended up shacking up for sex.

 

I do have an article on one of those nondual links...

 

http://nonduality.com/hempel.htm

[Vmarco]

As Master Nan, Huai-chin says there are different levels of Emptiness and there are different levels of consciousness.

 

It's an infinite process of someone's consciousness going into the Emptiness.

 

Ramana Maharshi as the main original nondual teacher came from a tradition of Brahminism -- and so the mind yoga worked -- but depended on specific conditions that most would not agree to today.

 

Those are just some caveats -- of course finding real energy masters is very difficult in today's world -- awash with new age gurus.

 

So as H.W.L. Poonjaji complained - his nondual Western students mainly ended up shacking up for sex.

 

My understanding may be somewhat different,...we already have a consciousness that is aware of emptiness,...no infinite process is necessary. As soon as we snap beyond the 6 lower consciousness' of sentience, relative emptiness begins to be realized,...but for absolute emptiness, the Other Emptiness, another consciousness is understood, which is beyond what Buddhists call alaya.

 

My grip as it were, with Non-dual practicioners, is that they believe Oneness is Non-dual,...Oneness is not Non-dual,...it's merely the coin, that has two sides. There is no One without a Many,...no Here without a There,...no Center without a Boundary. The Tao is not One, nor is the Tao the perceived illusion of Yin and Yang.

 

Lao-tzu correctly said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things....The Tao gives rise to all form, yet is has no form of its own."

 

The Tao did not "cause" One,...the One effects its motion upon the Tao,...like a lever upon a fulcrum. Yin and Yang are the harmoneous balanced interchange of the lever,...like a childs seesaw.

 

Wholeness is beyond the sum of opposites. The sum of opposites does not uncover One,...it uncovers the Tao.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Vmarco

[GrandmasterP]

'Not saying I don't agree with your 'all beliefs are lies ' riff buddy. If that's what you believe then fair play to you. Beliefs or wannabe beliefs do serve a purpose though otherwise folk wouldn't hold them or chase after them.

TTB has seekers, it serves that purpose, amongst others, folk come here to play and try on new clothes.

One use for belief is being amongst like minded chums or finding new chums whose mind set is attractive. Birds of a feather flock together....

The demographic for non duality gigs in London is exactly that for the Christian Alpha course.

A quiet mid week evening out with chance to meet similar unattached folk plus a side order of 'feel good'.

It's a winner in cities but doesn't play well in the settled burbs.

Edited January 17, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[voidisyinyang]

Just as I predicted.

 

hahaha.

 

Hilarious.

 

 

Let it rip boys!!

[Apech]

I was just thinking that you could make the strongest chain in the world with non-duality links.

[Vmarco]

I was just thinking that you could make the strongest chain in the world with non-duality links.

 

 

How so? Is not even beautifully perceived music can exist outside the vibratory nature of duality, what would the strongest chain in the world be supported upon?

[Apech]

How so? Is not even beautifully perceived music can exist outside the vibratory nature of duality, what would the strongest chain in the world be supported upon?

 

The philosopher's stone.

[Vmarco]

Hopefully this won't be another long thread of people dueling out their concepts.

 

If you're focused on concepts, how can you have the wholeness to observe the non-conceptual?

[Vmarco]

The philosopher's stone.

 

As in an alchemical process? Would not that still be a manifestation of Yin/Yang,...thus duality?

 

I used to read Manly Hall dozens of years ago,...but didn't notice anything meaningful in that system,...however, I haven't uncovered anything unmeaningful in Taoism. Is there a Philosopher's Stone in Taoism? A formula that uncovers what is beyond the One and the Many?

[Jeff]

My understanding may be somewhat different,...we already have a consciousness that is aware of emptiness,...no infinite process is necessary. As soon as we snap beyond the 6 lower consciousness' of sentience, relative emptiness begins to be realized,...but for absolute emptiness, the Other Emptiness, another consciousness is understood, which is beyond what Buddhists call alaya.

 

My grip as it were, with Non-dual practicioners, is that they believe Oneness is Non-dual,...Oneness is not Non-dual,...it's merely the coin, that has two sides. There is no One without a Many,...no Here without a There,...no Center without a Boundary. The Tao is not One, nor is the Tao the perceived illusion of Yin and Yang.

 

Lao-tzu correctly said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things....The Tao gives rise to all form, yet is has no form of its own."

 

The Tao did not "cause" One,...the One effects its motion upon the Tao,...like a lever upon a fulcrum. Yin and Yang are the harmoneous balanced interchange of the lever,...like a childs seesaw.

 

Wholeness is beyond the sum of opposites. The sum of opposites does not uncover One,...it uncovers the Tao.

 

Nice description. In other traditions the "One" could be described as consciousness, while the "Tau" would be be primordial awareness/light.

 

Best, Jeff

 

(edit - deleted needless sentence)

Edited January 17, 2013 by Jeff

[GrandmasterP]

Maybe no philosophers stone in taoism but we do have one that if you put it into a pot of boiling water then, with a bit of magic; the water is transformed into the most delicious soup.

The Taoist hermits always carried one, good for a meal and a bed anywhere those stones.

We sell them at the centre, there's a very short familiarisation ritual and then off you go into the wide world, you and your magic-soup stone.

Edited January 17, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[GrandmasterP]

The ritual runs thus and so...

Hermit:

"Behold.. the magic soup stone"

Householder...

"You is pulling my chain bro"

Hermit

"Stone into pot, pot to boil soup to make"

Householder (after twenty minutes)

"Still tastes like boiling water to me chum"

hermit

"Pop some salt and pepper in there"....

and so on.

At each stage you get the householder to pop something in.

carrot,

Onion

Garlic

Celery

Rabbit or Chicken (if you are non veggie)

and so on

 

After a couple of hours the magic soup stone has done it's work.

 

Hermit

"Behold the magic soup stone hath created soup"

Householder

" Yum Yum".

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[Apech]

As in an alchemical process? Would not that still be a manifestation of Yin/Yang,...thus duality?

 

I used to read Manly Hall dozens of years ago,...but didn't notice anything meaningful in that system,...however, I haven't uncovered anything unmeaningful in Taoism. Is there a Philosopher's Stone in Taoism? A formula that uncovers what is beyond the One and the Many?

 

I think I'll save that for a discussion on alchemy in the Hermetic sub ... seeing that my attempts to discuss Theurgy have met with an overwhelming silence

[三江源]

.

Edited December 16, 2015 by 三江源