Letter from David Shen

[DentyDao]

Edited January 22, 2007 by seandenty

[DentyDao]

Hey Wayfarer,

 

Nice to see you reading my post. Does this mean I'm off the ignor list? If so, no hard feelings. Nobody's perfect, myself included.

 

Best, Sean

[mat black]

"theres nothing like this anywhere out there"

 

Sean, my master can do this.

 

i,ve witnessed him do it and drank the water. it was water from the tap, and after being treated with his qi was the most pure sweet water ever.

 

i felt it go into my bones, some people felt colour and various energetic sensations. the effect will depend on the indicvidual drinking it as the qi will act in various ways according to their specific needs at the time.

 

nice to know other people are doing it.

[DentyDao]

"theres nothing like this anywhere out there"

 

Sean, my master can do this.

 

i,ve witnessed him do it and drank the water. it was water from the tap, and after being treated with his qi was the most pure sweet water ever.

 

i felt it go into my bones, some people felt colour and various energetic sensations. the effect will depend on the indicvidual drinking it as the qi will act in various ways according to their specific needs at the time.

 

nice to know other people are doing it.

 

That's awsome Mat,

 

Who's your teacher? If you don't mind my asking. I'd love to hear about him.

 

Sincerely, Sean

[mat black]

Hi Sean, my masters name is Xianglintao

 

the website i link here has basic background information only

 

learning with him has been, and continues to life changing

 

i tried to add a picture to my gallery, but for some reason, this sites' gallery won't accept photos from my camera (file size too large)

 

the water is amazing. it sounds similar to what you experienced. great stuff, nice to know.

 

i think we learn to do it as we advance in our learning and ability.

 

oh, yeah, the daoyin is only 1 component of twhat we are taught, there way more to it, if anyones interested, i'll say more later

 

best, mat

 

http://daoyintherapy.com.au/feedback.htm

[sean]

Hey, if you send me the pic to [email protected], I will resize and upload for you.

 

Nice post SeanD, this is very interesting news. Please keep us posted if you hear more from the professor's investigation of this water.

 

Sean

[DentyDao]

Hi Sean, my masters name is Xianglintao

 

Thanks, I just checked out the website. I'm continually impressed with you Australians. Very cool. Imagine what would happen to world health if governments started training doctors to do this.

Edited January 22, 2007 by seandenty

[Jonah]

Glad to hear this information is finally getting out there. It's pretty cool stuff, hard to believe at first. Chia was doing this pretty hardcore back in the 1990s but I thought it was bullshit back then.

 

Then a few years ago I came across the work of Dr. Masura Emoto, a Japanese researcher, who has done a lot of research on this and written several books on it, one of them topping the New York Times bestseller list.

 

https://www.hado.net/

 

You don't need any special skills to do this, anyone can change the molecular structure of the water by putting it in a container and writing your intentions on the container or simply holding it with your intention. Emoto's research shows that after a few hours the molecular structure of a bottle with a label that says bliss looks dramatically different than one that says hate.

 

Same goes with music. Put some water in a bottle and play Mozart in front of it for a few hours. The water tastes great. Same goes for Led Zeppelin. Although that tastes more like beer for some reason... lol

 

Actually have had some amazing results playing Eckhart Tolle recordings in front of bottles of water for an entire night. That water is some of the best I've ever tasted. Super sweet.

Edited January 22, 2007 by Jonah

[DentyDao]

Edited January 22, 2007 by seandenty

[Jonah]

Yeah, I agree, Chia's stuff was definitely over the top. "By my command" he would order the water to change. I thought it was a pretty funny presentation myself and I certainly didn't take it seriously at the time. But his principles were sound.

 

The idea that water can hold frequencies is ancient and nothing new. Holy water in the Catholic church tradition, the magical reverence for Ganges water by Hindus, and water cleansing methods in shamanism are just several examples of many where water has been charged by priests or holy men and transformed into something more than a just nice cool drink.

 

The David Shen news is good news in that it is prompting scientists to test these things. But I'm quite confident that you and I have the same ability to create such water, as does anyone else who has the inspiration. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely cool stuff, but certainly not something that requires super extraordinary skill, we all can do it. Water is a really awesome medium.

 

Anyhow, that's all. Have to get back to my bottle of Eckhart Tolle water now. This stuff rocks! ;-)

 

Bottoms up,

 

Jonah

Edited January 23, 2007 by Jonah

[thelerner]

There was a Kabbalist center that was into changing water back into Eden water. They'd show pictures of the water under microscopes or electron microscopes to prove it. This was before Emotos work. I know there are healers in Mexico who 'charge' water for healing.

 

I had a friend from Burma who's Master would mix spit and soil into round pellets and it would have miraculous healing power. I do think there is healing power in these things, but it helps if the patient sees it and believes it. The patient has to meet the healer half way.

 

Healing water is nice, but its a crutch, the teacher is nice, but he's just a finger.

 

At some point you have to get rid of the stuff (and the search for better stuff) and get rid of the guru, stand on your own and follow your path.

 

Michael

[sean]

I really like this idea of letting music and even teacher's voices vibrate my drinking water. That is so cool.

[Lozen]

Emoto is awesome.

[DentyDao]

Edited January 23, 2007 by seandenty

[thelerner]

But you've been doing this for years and I take it you're not curing cancer either. There are other traditions where the Masters say they're curing cancer through ater. I'm sure David V. is great but he may not be as unique as you say. More power to him if he's allowing himself to be poked and prodded by scientists.

 

That's the path to wider acceptance and thats when it goes from the mystic realm into common place. Your dream where talented qi gong Dr's are at every hospital. Because its the easiest thing in the world to fake, there's got to be objective standards and that is where science shines, usually

 

Part of that dream has to start here, with us, us dreamers. Those who put the bottle infront of the tape. Those who charge their food and drink through conscious intent. Is it new age or are old fashion prayer? We aren't going to cure cancer with it, but maybe it will taste sweeter. Maybe it will be a little healthier. Or maybe just remind us of what we wish to be - more fluid .

 

The majority of us will not be following your path. Your constant division of my side right, all others wrong/dreamers/D&D players(?) is

 

The modern age has given unprecedented access to gurus and teachers of all stripes. When we're ready and if we keep an eye out, our teacher will come. And hopefully we'll wise enough to send them packing when the time is right.

 

 

Michael

[DentyDao]

But you've been doing this for years and I take it you're not curing cancer either. There are other traditions where the Masters say they're curing cancer through ater. I'm sure David V. is great but he may not be as unique as you say. More power to him if he's allowing himself to be poked and prodded by scientists.

 

I don't think I'm saying he's totally unique, but I assure you the masters are. Wang Liping is probably as close to Buddhahood as anyone on the planet; they say he can duplicate his body into the hundreds, maybe more; this is the real immortal body. And yet, even people who accept the possiblity that this could be real, dismiss it as some kind of side track. It boggles my mind.

 

The fact that I can't cure cancer has nothing to with my argument. Jonah was saying that anybody can do this stuff which is total nonsense. But, of course I'm not saying that there aren't others out there with healing ability. Where do you come up with this stuff? I totally believe Mat Black's master is legit. At least he understands that there is some practice involved in gaining this ability.

 

That's the path to wider acceptance and thats when it goes from the mystic realm into common place. Your dream where talented qi gong Dr's are at every hospital. Because its the easiest thing in the world to fake, there's got to be objective standards and that is where science shines, usually

 

I want this stuff to be in every town on the planet. Are you suggesting otherwise?

 

Part of that dream has to start here, with us, us dreamers. Those who put the bottle infront of the tape. Those who charge their food and drink through conscious intent. Is it new age or are old fashion prayer? We aren't going to cure cancer with it, but maybe it will taste sweeter. Maybe it will be a little healthier. Or maybe just remind us of what we wish to be - more fluid .

 

That makes sense. I don't think I said anything to the contrary.

 

The majority of us will not be following your path. Your constant division of my side right, all others wrong/dreamers/D&D players(?) is

 

..is your perception of me. Please take your blinders off. I'm not saying I have a monopoly on God. That would be insanity.

 

The modern age has given unprecedented access to gurus and teachers of all stripes. When we're ready and if we keep an eye out, our teacher will come. And hopefully we'll wise enough to send them packing when the time is right.

Cute, but also meaningless and pointless.

 

Next...

 

Trust me. If I had a million dollars, I'd take every one of you to China with me and you would be shitting your pants. Changing water into wine is just the tip of the iceburg. Of course I have no way to prove anything I'm saying; most people here probably think I'm crazy. I don't really care.

Edited January 23, 2007 by seandenty

[Wayfarer64]

The active search for and sharing of esoteric knowledge has been going on for many mellenia, my own only since 1968. I hope that most of the young and cock-sure seekers here, don't fade away or burn-out in the decades to come. I have seen it happen to very strong and able practitioners. Their consciousness did not grow with their intake.

 

There is always more to understand than we will ever know.

And knowing is not understanding. Knowledge is of no use if the holder of it can not or will not apply the concepts into their reality/dream state and work to make for a better understanding, not a mere accumulation of powerful ideas and states of mind, that bring them self-satisfaction, but do not change how they live and accumulate merit and kharma.

 

When yr kharma hits yr dogma in the here and now ( or in the great beyond), it is what you have done and how you treat yr fellow beings- when you had the chance, that has any register in cosmic value structures.

Kharma does not preclude the smack to the head of master to doltish students...

 

Often enough the sillier applications of Qi turn back to simple wind as if blown out of one's ass...

And thus, in the hands of the very vapid and selfish, It just raisies a stink, while a true master will heal and cure and develope strengths in others, some will use these abilities as a con-man sells his snake-oil, to get-over on suckers and fools.

 

It takes all kinds, so caviat emptor, take note of attitude and the dynamics of applications when judging those who would seek followers, not mere knowledge and ability.

[DentyDao]

Edited January 23, 2007 by seandenty

[DentyDao]

Often enough the sillier applications of Qi turn back to simple wind as if blown out of one's ass...

And thus, in the hands of the very vapid and selfish, It just raisies a stink, while a true master will heal and cure and develope strengths in others, some will use these abilities as a con-man sells his snake-oil, to get-over on suckers and fools.

 

You know, I have been grossly misunderstood by you and that's a shame. I was under the impression that I was on your ignor list, but you seem to just follow me where ever I post. With all your accusations of fackery and snake oil you would think that perhaps you spent some time in China or Asia as serious monk or lay practitioner. But the reality is you have not and your writing about Taoism, and qigong are really pretty basic. I just don't have any respect for you left. That's another thing Buddhists do when see negitive qualities. They stop respecting the person and stop taking them seriously.

 

No one has even metioned you're name on this thread, but you just have to show up to throw doubts and accussations. I mean it would be one thing if I went on a thread you started, or in response to a post you made directly to me and started casting doubt and questioning your credibility, but I haven't done that. It's always you reacting that way to my posts and my writing and throwing a tantrum when I give it back to you. Stop following me around the forum like a wounded dog trying to nip at my heals. How old are you for God sake man have some self respect.

 

I'm more than happy to make peace with you, but this kind of behavior is not going to get you anywhere. As a Buddhist, I also do not believe in turning the other cheek. As the Buddha taught, if someone trys to attack you, you should defend yourself. Otherwise the person attacking you will get the bad karma of their actions. Put your hand up for example when someone trys to hit you.

 

Peace my friend, S

 

To the people who feel for Wayfarer in this whole thing. The guys has been angry with me since probably my first post and he just won't quite. He can't read my comments right now because he has included me on his ignor list in an attempt to do I don't really know what. Go ahead and reveiw my posting if you want to. I have never, up to this point, gone on a thread he started or just out of the blue gone in and criticized this guy. He just thinks I'm Satin I guess... I really don't know what for. I guess it's possible that he really feels that I'm responsable for his hurt feelings. If this is the case, I feel for him, but I'm not responsable for the emotional state of a grown man. He got himself into hs current state and no one here can take him out but him. To think otherwise is an illusion.

 

If anybody feels moved to, please let him know that I am...

 

A)not trying to recruite students for David. Or ripe people off. I am here of my own free will and don't receive any payment or incentive for being here other than persoanl enjoyment. Just sharing.

B)think he is a good person and care for him even though I don't respect him or his actions.

 

Who knows maybe he has some issues. I don't know but I'm beginning to wonder.

Edited January 23, 2007 by seandenty

[Leidee]

Sean D - your post starting "additional reflection..."

 

I feel like I get your angle/passion for the first time.

 

Cheers

L

[sean]

SeanD, if your teachers truly have the intention to share genuine wisdom openly with the world at large, why are their systems closed? Why are their methods kept secret?

 

This is why I lost my patience with Dr. Emoto's work, as intriguing as I initially found it. When I was watching "What the Bleep?" and the water crystals scene came on, I was so filled with amazement at the implications! I immediately paused the DVD and went to my computer and spent the next four hours googling for any information on how these tests were conducted. Eventually I realized it was a futile search and gave up. He has not released his methods. He just publishes new books with pretty pictures and New Age hand holding and goes on book tours. So no one with academic credentials can verify or duplicate his results. That is how real science works as I'm sure you know. Until Dr. Emoto details his approach and publishes in peer reviewed journals I will continue thinking he is a fraud.

 

It's one thing to teach methods of personal, existential inquiry into the nature of reality and consciousness. This is outside the realm of what external science can measure. But making specific claims about material reality, such as "I have altered the molecular properties of water with my energy field" is very much within the domain of science. And having a claim like this validated, I agree with you, would have profound implications, much like you've described. And it's for these exact reasons, the enormously positive impact that the scientific validation of these miracles would have on public consciousness, that I become highly skeptical and even angry at teachers who make powerful claims that would radically alter human paradigms for the good, but then cannot even bother to take a single week out of their exhausting Tai Chi in the park schedule to bring their skills to the light of scientific scrutiny. WTF?!

 

To return to a positive note, again, it's refreshing to hear that your teacher is at least sharing the results of his work with the scientific community. The problem of course is that, for the outside skeptic, validating unique properties of this water sent in to a lab won't mean shit because the act of transformation of the water by the healer himself was not done in a controlled environment.

 

Sean

[DentyDao]

SeanD, if your teachers truly have the intention to share genuine wisdom openly with the world at large, why are their systems closed? Why are their methods kept secret?

 

This is why I lost my patience with Dr. Emoto's work, as intriguing as I initially found it. When I was watching "What the Bleep?" and the water crystals scene came on, I was so filled with amazement at the implications! I immediately paused the DVD and went to my computer and spent the next four hours googling for any information on how these tests were conducted. Eventually I realized it was a futile search and gave up. He has not released his methods. He just publishes new books with pretty pictures and New Age hand holding and goes on book tours. So no one with academic credentials can verify or duplicate his results. That is how real science works as I'm sure you know. Until Dr. Emoto details his approach and publishes in peer reviewed journals I will continue thinking he is a fraud.

 

It's one thing to teach methods of personal, existential inquiry into the nature of reality and consciousness. This is outside the realm of what external science can measure. But making specific claims about material reality, such as "I have altered the molecular properties of water with my energy field" is very much within the domain of science. And having a claim like this validated, I agree with you, would have profound implications, much like you've described. And it's for these exact reasons, the enormously positive impact that the scientific validation of these miracles would have on public consciousness, that I become highly skeptical and even angry at teachers who make powerful claims that would radically alter human paradigms for the good, but then cannot even bother to take a single week out of their exhausting Tai Chi in the park schedule to bring their skills to the light of scientific scrutiny. WTF?!

 

To return to a positive note, again, it's refreshing to hear that your teacher is at least sharing the results of his work with the scientific community. The problem of course is that, for the outside skeptic, validating unique properties of this water sent in to a lab won't mean shit because the act of transformation of the water by the healer himself was not done in a controlled environment.

 

Sean

 

Hey Sean,

 

First I would remind you that David's teachers are not my personal teachers. David, my teacher, However has encouraged them to share as much as they can comfortably. And both John Chang (at least at one point in time)and several others have publically said they have a deep desire to help humanity by sharing what they know. John chang even allowed a book to be written about him and was very much planning to spread the teaching. I don't pretend to know why the masters keep their teachings on the down low, but some of davids masters are very much interested in sharing. For the record I was also talking about all enlightened teachers, sorry if that didn't come through. So if we look it that way, we have some real examples like many of the Buddhas who used miracle powers to inspire and heal. Have you read the Opening of the Dragon Gate? It's the life story of Wang Liping; the same master David is currently living with. In the book Wang in his teachers are constantly on the move to avoid getting noticed by the government as the cultural revolution is in full swing. People like this are closely watched by the government even today. Shifu Wang is in constant contact with high officials of the Chinese government which both guards him as an asset and keeps careful watch over him. They are very aware of David's presence in China, and often call when he's there to ask questions.

 

While many of these masters have incredible powers, they are not invulnerable like superman and I would speculate that they are very cautious about there dealings with foreign scientists. Shifu J is not even permitted to leave the country without what's called a guarantor; that's some one who vouches for him to the government of China.

 

My other speculation is that the really high level beings that David has met are primarily interested in helping people progress in their cultivation. Medical technology to them would be viewed as fairly mundan in comparison to helping someone achieve enlightenment.

 

When I first arrived in Thailand and met with David, he pulled a little bottle out of his office and took out two pieces of raw mercury that had been touched my an immortal master. the one Michael Winn is so convinced is a hallucination. He's quite real and well known in China- David even showed us pictures of him that were very convincing. His name is Da Zhen and he, I'm told, over a thousand years old. Anyway, David showed us each of the pieces of mercury; one was a perfect half sphere an the other a semi hard sphere. These had been simple touched by Da Zhen; One with yin qi and one with yang. When I touched the yang peice it zapped me a little. This is what I mean when I say the masters touch can take you to a new level in an instant. When the master touches your body, the alchemical elixir of Daoist legend begins to grow automatically. The real philosophers stone. Anyway, Da Zhen told David that he was not his teacher but that he would 'open the way for David.' He, with a touch, gave David the clear light. This is what allows David to sense the presence of other masters and what allowed him access into these circles.

 

You see it's the master who picks the students. The student who has not met certain spiritual requirements will be a less likely candidate over others more willing and sincere. Simple really, Any real master wants to direct his energy toward the students he feels will most likely succeed.

 

Anyway, I have shared a lot here, but I'm willing to go out on a limb to share here. If you are interested I would be happy to discuss any questions people have.

 

Things are changing slowly.

 

S

Edited January 23, 2007 by seandenty

[Wayfarer64]

Mr.Denty,

 

Much of what you have entered on this thread is interesting and sounds as if there is a possibility that you grasp some of the concepts well enough to live by them. But it could also be construed by some as empty rhetoric when taken along-side much of what you write...

 

And sir, (oh if only "kind" could be applied)- Why would you assume just because you start a thread that everything written in it is directed towards you. This is still a free space for us all to write our ideas concerning our practices.

 

You have taken personally many things from many people that were not directed at you, and turned them into personal attacks. You continualy misconceive of ideas, and the meaning of words from the simple such as ignore to the more complex such as the difference between knowledge and understanding, even the realization of compassion seems beyond you.

 

If the ground rules of the ignore function also enclude not participating in threads each-other start then I disagree. I for one have had the self-control (up to this entry)- not to have addressed anything towards you, encluding the entry you seem to take exception to!

 

If you take my entries to be addressed towards you than they are merely a shoe that fits...Not an intended nod in your general direction.

 

Again my complaint towards you has always been that you are too self-possessed within your own ideas, (narrow-minded)- to be taken seriously as an adherant of many things and concepts you espouse as your own. I do not care about the rudeness per se, that is only a surface element indicating a lack of character in anyone, you are but a fine example.

 

I kept my comments general on this thread, as I always try to do, and felt in fact they supported your possition, but if you feel that they apply to you in the negative, that is pretty interesting.

 

I have however, come across several comments of yours directed at me by name, even after you wrote that you too would ignore me, I guess that is just one more concept you are unable to grasp.

 

It is too bad that when I log on as a guest my ignore option does not work.

 

The pychological defence mechanism know as mirroring seems to be strong in you youngman, it is not a healthy trait. It precludes looking within for the troubles one makes for oneself and seeks to blame others for their very inception. This is the opposite of what an adherent of Taoism would do.

 

So, finally it has become clear to me that you are here to refute Taoism.

 

I hope this satisfies your craving for negative attention. I shall go back to ignoring you as well as the sight allows.

[DentyDao]

I'm sorry, but I still don't buy it. I'm hardly a young man and I'm also a father and husband. I have eyes and a heart to see.

 

And sir, (oh if only "kind" could be applied)- Why would you assume just because you start a thread that everything written in it is directed towards you. This is still a free space for us all to write our ideas concerning our practices.

 

So why is it that every other time I post you seem to show up and make comments about snake oil and fakes and, of course, there are all the other instances where you did openly put me down out of the blue because you 'don't like the way I operate' and think I lack character. I think you need to reflect on the reality of what's happened here. You feel threated by me, period.

 

Compassion is the desire to help someone when they're in trouble. I want to suggest that you stick to your promise and keep me on the ignor function of your user control. I think it would be good for your mental health; I will also pray for you.

 

S

 

Until another day.

Edited January 23, 2007 by seandenty

[Smile]

Simple really, Any real master wants to direct his energy toward the students he feels will most likely succeed.

 

So true. Most of the people on the spiritual path has a naive belief it's not that hard to reach high stages of cultivation.