Selling Out? Really?

[Marblehead]

I think we have free will

 

At one point I thought we did not

 

but then that was me thinking that I was I

Hehehe. Sometimes thinking too much causes confusion.

[Owledge]

You have free will whether you want it or not, because everything is predetermined.

[Marblehead]

You have free will whether you want it or not, because everything is predetermined.

Hehehe. Okay Fella!

[Birch]

You have free will whether you want it or not, because everything is predetermined.

Yes, sometimes I get that feeling. It's sort of a bummer.

[GrandmasterP]

Stands to reason that everything is predetermined.

You all knew I'd say that didn't you?

;-)

[Owledge]

 

You all knew I'd say that didn't you?

;-)

Did YOU know? ;-)

[GrandmasterP]

Yep

[Mark Saltveit]

Her task, then, was to sexually satisfy a partner.

 

Such as the person who assigned the task. That's fiendish, I like it.

[GrandmasterP]

You have free will whether you want it or not, because everything is predetermined.

Seriously though guys predestination is a sophistry in that it absolves wo/men of responsibility for their actions. A basic flaw in Judaeo-Chrisitainity. Anathema to itself.

[eye_of_the_storm]

same with karma

Edited January 22, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Marblehead]

I heard that Karma went back to India. She was a good ole gal though.

[zerostao]

if a bum goes to pp section and the topics are all locked, then where else would bum respond if saw fit?

extreme poverty in the cities apparently really sucks but in the countryside of life , it aint so bad, really.

it is a bit of a challenge some days but everyone else is also extremely poverty stricken and so the country folk have found ways to be resourceful and clever and mostly take great joy in helping others out. this sorta thing happens in my neck of the woods daily, nightly, in the morning too. and we never ever ever ever never ever never would ever ever dream of letting go of our dreams. never.

[dwai]

Hi Folks,

 

More_Pie_Guy made the following post in his PP section and I think it is a topic worthy of discussion:

 

My life has come to a crossroads, I can chase money and give up my dreams, I can chase my dreams in extreme poverty, or try to do both, and in doing so do neither.

 

I think I am going to choose money, and sell out. I don't think I can manage extreme poverty.

 

Wish me better luck next life.

 

No, what I am going to do is wish you the best of luck during the rest of this life.

 

You see, there is nothing wrong with making changes in our life. We have our wonderous ideals when we are young. We see all the unfairness in the world and we want to make things better. What a worthy desire!

 

However, after commiting ourself totally to the effort to make changes we see nothing change. And our parents are getting tired of us still living at home at the age of 32.

 

So, 32 years of our life gone. For what? Disappointment. We have made no changes. And we still don't know what we want to be when we grow up!

 

Should we run away, find a nice cave and hide? What purpose will that serve?

 

Should we become like the greedy of the world and amass as much wealth as possible?

 

Or should we live a productive life, walking a path that leads us toward inner peace and contentment?

 

Choices. Yes, I'm talking about free will. Be whatever your inner Self wants you to be. If you are at peace with your Self you will radiate your peacefulness toward every living thing you encounter; you will be walking a path of Tao. (And you might even get a good paying job, have excess and offer that to those who are less fortunate.)

 

May peace be with you all!

well said MH!

It might seem that success (Material) and spiritual pursuits are at logger heads, but that's only if we look at them through a "zero-sums game" lens. Material success when harnessed properly can aid in spiritual practice (its best to be pragmatic and realize how the world operates these days).

[dwai]

Hi MPG,

 

Truly "living life" is the best practice of all. Working, being married and having children teaches you far more than living on a mountain top. A week with your new born child will teach you more about "love" than a 100 years of reading and meditation. The key is just to always try to "stay in moment".

 

Jeff

And dealing with their idiosyncrasies and those of one's spouse's will teach you more about patience than a 100 years of reading and meditation...

 

If you are into indian spiritual traditions, then there are four pursuits for any individual -

 

* dharma - Spiritual practice

* artha - Material success

* kama - things that give you pleasure

* moksha - liberation from cycle of birth and re-birth

 

Some have a greater predilection towards one vs the other(s). But all of them in moderation will complete your life as an individual.

 

Dare I say, karma, she's a back!!

Edited January 23, 2013 by dwai

[Thunder_Gooch]

Hey guys, if you will note I didn't come here to ask for your advice.

 

To be honest and frank, I am not interested in anything you have to say or any advice you have to give me, you guys are going in one direction, and I am hoping to go 180 degrees in the other.

 

The whole point of me having a PPD was so that I didn't have to keep running into this time and time again, and to use it as an open journal.

 

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Best wishes on your practice.

[Thunder_Gooch]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/26633-please-read-this-first/

 

I post my thoughts here, sort of like an open journal.

 

If I wanted to argue or debate I'd post it in General or Taoist discussion.

 

I lock all topics so I don't have to argue or debate with 10,000 trolls.

 

If you see something here you just have to argue or debate about PM me.

 

If that won't work for you, then create a new thread elsewhere, and please don't attribute anything to me, don't quote me. Please paraphrase things in your own words, and don't reference me.

 

I am severely burnt out with arguing/debate with people on this site.

 

 

 

 

 

if a bum goes to pp section and the topics are all locked, then where else would bum respond if saw fit?

[zerostao]

i wasnt debating or arguing with you or anyone else. wasnt trying to upset you. thought you were open to discussion, but;

To be honest and frank, I am not interested in anything you have to say or any advice you have to give me, you guys are going in one direction, and I am hoping to go 180 degrees in the other

i can only wonder as why you visit this site at all then. but really i could care less

and

running into this time and time again

and you dont ponder for a moment on why this is?

to observe your continual suffering and not at least reach out to you in conversation, is not how i roll. i never offered advice, only tried to offer an ear that would listen. have it your way and continue to suffer (needlessly) you have my deepest sympathies and pity but you no longer have my ear ,as i respect your choice, flawed as it is,

i will continue to follow my dreams and mpg you do serve here to remind me of how extremely fortunate i am to have found Taoist schools that only brighten my life, health, understanding, connection with Tao and much much more that you will never know of and i am so extremely fornunate that i didnt follow some other school that causes deep frustration, angst, and needless suffering and always hold the carrot out ahead of someone but never fulfills any attainment. i hope that within the next 200 lifetimes mpg that you find something useful in life

for me today is just another wonderful day in Tao

i am not flaunting or taunting , it is just mind-boggling to me that some choose to live in darkness and suffering, it doesnt have to be that way.

peace to you on your path and i respectifully ignore you now

like you say you are hoping to go in a direction,in the meanwhile i reckon you are content to be stuck. good luck with that, there are folks on this forum who are truly on a true path and going higher and beyond. enjoying life now and breaking the cycle of samsara.

maybe one lifetime you will recognize one

[Thunder_Gooch]

Not interested, thanks though.

 

Best wishes with your practice.

 

i wasnt debating or arguing with you or anyone else. wasnt trying to upset you. thought you were open to discussion, but;

To be honest and frank, I am not interested in anything you have to say or any advice you have to give me, you guys are going in one direction, and I am hoping to go 180 degrees in the other

i can only wonder as why you visit this site at all then. but really i could care less

and

running into this time and time again

and you dont ponder for a moment on why this is?

to observe your continual suffering and not at least reach out to you in conversation, is not how i roll. i never offered advice, only tried to offer an ear that would listen. have it your way and continue to suffer (needlessly) you have my deepest sympathies and pity but you no longer have my ear ,as i respect your choice, flawed as it is,

i will continue to follow my dreams and mpg you do serve here to remind me of how extremely fortunate i am to have found Taoist schools that only brighten my life, health, understanding, connection with Tao and much much more that you will never know of and i am so extremely fornunate that i didnt follow some other school that causes deep frustration, angst, and needless suffering and always hold the carrot out ahead of someone but never fulfills any attainment. i hope that within the next 200 lifetimes mpg that you find something useful in life

for me today is just another wonderful day in Tao

i am not flaunting or taunting , it is just mind-boggling to me that some choose to live in darkness and suffering, it doesnt have to be that way.

peace to you on your path and i respectifully ignore you now

like you say you are hoping to go in a direction,in the meanwhile i reckon you are content to be stuck. good luck with that, there are folks on this forum who are truly on a true path and going higher and beyond. enjoying life now and breaking the cycle of samsara.

maybe one lifetime you will recognize one

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

zeros: methinks MPG has a lot under his hood and a lot on his plate right now. and i personally am glad that he posts here.

 

 

Some people are content enough to just read with no need to discuss... others dont need to read as much but like to write/type.

 

 

 

Some of us are searching for something, truth, experience, understanding, whatever it might be... we are more prone to discussion as we are still trying to bring precision to our opinions or perceptions.

 

 

 

 

Me, i am looking for representations of the whole to implement in yet another representation of the whole

[Marblehead]

I have edited my opening post and removed MPG's name from the post.

 

Everyone please speak to the topic and not the individual.

 

Thank you all!

[templetao]

Ok so whats the point here? Is it- Im a grown man in 2013 and i need a career? Well welcome to the party pal.

 

Maintain that your social life, love life, and be a serious cultivator and you will be a success at living your life the way you want while still having a life worth living.

 

The forum idea you had was a good idea and could have worked. Building a taoist website that makes some revenue isnt a bad idea.

Edited January 23, 2013 by templetao

[Thunder_Gooch]

I have a job, I work full time. No love or social life (not a bad thing imho).

 

My off day I meditate some, get 5-10 hours per week of practice.

 

Making no progress on my real dreams in life, and I am still poor.

 

Made the call to pursue a real career, that will take 15 years to get into.

 

I'll can realistically to expect to live for another 25 years after I land a Job.

 

Dreams die either way, unless I go homeless and work a part time job, which isn't something I think I can do.

 

That was the point.

 

I didn't come asking for advice, just journaling my thoughts in my PPDF, it oozed over here too. Just doing damage control.

 

Ok so whats the point here? Is it- Im a grown man in 2013 and i need a career? Well welcome to the party pal.

 

Maintain that your social life, love life, and be a serious cultivator and you will be a success at living your life the way you want while still having a life worth living.

 

The forum idea you had was a good idea and could have worked. Building a taoist website that makes some revenue isnt a bad idea.

Edited January 23, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Marblehead]

Dare I say, karma, she's a back!!

That lady really gets around!

[zerostao]

I have edited my opening post and removed MPG's name from the post.

 

Everyone please speak to the topic and not the individual.

 

Thank you all!

edit>

i do sincerely wish you luck and i hope that fate and destiny are kind to you.

i respect your choice , whichever way you decide to go. i am only suggesting you dont have to give up your dream

Edited January 23, 2013 by zerostao

[templetao]

MPG,

 

i think what you going thru is a good thing. Having a career will give you the time money and respect to pursue your goals for a lifetime.

 

The worse thing of all is looking back realizing all the stuff you missed out on your life.