The top one hundred earners were paid enough money last year to end poverty on this planet.......four times over!

[flowing hands]

Yes its true the top one hundred earners made over 160 billion pounds last year which is enough according to Oxfam to rid the world of poverty four times over.

 

"the Dao of heaven is to take from those who have far too much and give to those who do not have enough

Man's way is different;

he takes from those who do not have enough and gives to those who already have far too much."

Li Erh Xian Shi

 

Should a Daoist be rich?

Is there really any hope for the human race?

[Protector]

Everyone from my lineage like place says that a Taoist MUST be rich

[Birch]

Takes what? I understood this as qi flows.

I don't think anyone 'should' be doing stuff at the negative expense of others. However, just by living where I do, eating what I do, everything I do, I am taking from others. That's pretty clear. Can I do otherwise? Make sure the people I'm taking from have enough for themselves?

 

http://slaveryfootprint.org/

[skydog]

Not one for poverty or liking of it, but upon contemplation

 

The idea of excess seems to be a concept, does excess exist in nature, it is part of nature right?

 

Also I agree with protector to some degree, if a person is wise, then is it not a "good" idea for them to be wealthy too.

 

getting into concepts again so yeh away i go

[RiverSnake]

All the money in the world won't end poverty. Change must come from within. There's no point In putting sprinkles on a shit sandwich.....

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited January 19, 2013 by OldGreen

[GrandmasterP]

These celebs who raise money for the third world and such...

Why not just send some of their royalties direct and have done with it?

There will always be the haves and the have nots cos the haves want to hang on to what they have and stuff the have nots.

Nowt we can do about it as far a the big picture is concerned but anyone can make a difference in a small way.

Sponsor a kiddy.

http://www.actionaid.org.uk/103403/burma_appeal.html?&gclid=CPL2sM_p9LQCFeTMtAodungAxg

Edited January 19, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Is there really any hope for the human race?

 

 

Breast Implants, Botox, "cosmetic surgury" for permanent makeup, Pornographic slavery of men, women, AND children, animal abuse, child abuse, spousal abuse, politics. in their entireity. The Human History of the World is the case in point AND the REASON, the very source, of hope for the human race...

 

 

If the human race did not suffer, there WOULD NOT be hope, for hope is reserved for those in suffering to rise above it and become cleansed of, or at the very least immune to, corruption.

 

 

 

 

P.S. In my personal opinion, Humans, collectively, arent a race, but a species

 

Where's the thread about 5 races of human again? LOL

Edited January 19, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[thelerner]

 

Nowt we can do about it as far a the big picture is concerned but anyone can make a difference in a small way.

Sponsor a kiddy.

http://www.actionaid.org.uk/103403/burma_appeal.html?&gclid=CPL2sM_p9LQCFeTMtAodungAxg

Exactly. There comes a time you have to stop hoping for divine or celebratory intervention, roll up your sleeves and do something yourself. Here's one of my favorite charities: https://secure1.heifer.org/gift-catalog?msource=magento

Flock o Chickens: Provide nutrition for family, a product to sell, they eat insects, scratching and dung makes the earth more fertile, future flocks can be given away to help other families and ofcourse they make good soup.

[Aetherous]

"the Dao of heaven is to take from those who have far too much and give to those who do not have enough

Man's way is different;

he takes from those who do not have enough and gives to those who already have far too much."

Li Erh Xian Shi

 

Should a Daoist be rich?

 

Being rich (having enough to get by somewhat comfortably, which can be upper working class in my opinion) doesn't need to come at the expense of taking from the poor. It also doesn't prohibit you from giving to the poor.

 

Is there really any hope for the human race?

 

Hope is the last thing left in the box.

[suninmyeyes]

Being able to be to make such amount of money is great , but being that rich is some sort of illness .

If internally coneccted person makes so much money they would know what to do with it and give it away wisley and probably help the planet greatly and so many people.

However -- to hoard such welath is some sort of strange hunger for power and nothing else.

 

Being financially secure and have a life free of financial struggles and taking care of the family is one thing , but constantly striving and driving own life with the goal of being rich or constat feeling of material lack is IMO deviation .

 

Is there a hope for human race ?

I dont know , but as far as the money is concerned the best we can do is start from ourself and honestly understand what is money for , how much do we really need and what do we contribute to by spending it on certain products. No need to go OCD about it , but being sober and lucid.

Does one person need 3 cars ? 20 pairs of shoes ? 5 winter coats ? Christamas tree ? New phone becouse the old one is 3 months old ? etc..

[Harmonious Emptiness]

It's unfortunate that some who have amassed so much wealth, perhaps in the process, have dissociated themselves from the rest of the world. They may have been traumatized by people always making them feel helpless and inferior and now feel the need to wield unlimited power (which is entirely impossible). Many people at this level have had so many attempts made to deceive them out of loads of power and money that they would not survive without the idea that "no body cares about me, only a fool would care about everybody." How do we show people at this level of competition that they can safely love and be loved?

 

Something to consider though, is that wealth is not a bad thing. It's just power, like fire, which can be beneficial or harmful depending on how one uses it.

 

Also, when these people spend loads on themselves, even though they could help people who need it more desperately, they actually do help people by spending promiscuously. The manufacturers, their employees, the salesmen, the business where these people then spend their money, all benefit more so than if the money were just to sit in gold bars.

 

This said, the money would be much better circulated going to an economically stagnant community, where the money goes to a family who buys vegetables from a farmer who then buys seed from another farmer who then employs someone to build a well for him, and dollars pass like cake that magically lands on someone else's plate every time somebody eats it.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Maddie]

Yes its true the top one hundred earners made over 160 billion pounds last year which is enough according to Oxfam to rid the world of poverty four times over.

 

"the Dao of heaven is to take from those who have far too much and give to those who do not have enough

Man's way is different;

he takes from those who do not have enough and gives to those who already have far too much."

Li Erh Xian Shi

 

Should a Daoist be rich?

Is there really any hope for the human race?

 

So Taoism is socialist... awesome !

[林愛偉]

All the money in the world won't end poverty. Change must come from within. There's no point In putting sprinkles on a shit sandwich.....

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

HAHAHA

 

Oh so right! Be rich, is fine. It is a blessing from the heavens when you are cultivating the way... perhaps you may be rich in finances, or blessings, good company, or even blessed by gaining good teachings... rich financially is just one's karma, good or bad. :-)

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/a-novel-idea-asking-an-afghan-about-the-future-of-afghanistan

 

Just read this new article on the karma of wealth.

[Maddie]

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/a-novel-idea-asking-an-afghan-about-the-future-of-afghanistan

 

Just read this new article on the karma of wealth.

Yea stuff like that reminds me why I don't like to watch the news too often haha.

[Maddie]

HAHAHA

 

Oh so right! Be rich, is fine. It is a blessing from the heavens when you are cultivating the way... perhaps you may be rich in finances, or blessings, good company, or even blessed by gaining good teachings... rich financially is just one's karma, good or bad. :-)

I agree with you that ones wealth is a result of their past karma and merit, but I don't think that means that we should just chalk up the "system" to karma and be totally apathetic (maybe just partial apathetic lol). After all the karma that was made in the past to make one wealthy or poor was made at the time by the decisions and choices of that person.

 

So you bring this karma making process to the present, if we think "just screw the world its their karma" then don't we earn some rather uncompassionate future karma for ourselves?

 

On the other hand if we see the starving kids in Africa and are like "damn I don't know what they did in a past life to deserve that, but I want to do all I can to help them" then we make a good karmic choice that will benefit us in the future as well as the hungry kids now.

 

So I think the fatalistic "oh its just their past karma" attitude forgets about how karma is formed in the present.

[林愛偉]

I agree with you that ones wealth is a result of their past karma and merit, but I don't think that means that we should just chalk up the "system" to karma and be totally apathetic (maybe just partial apathetic lol). After all the karma that was made in the past to make one wealthy or poor was made at the time by the decisions and choices of that person.

 

So you bring this karma making process to the present, if we think "just screw the world its their karma" then don't we earn some rather uncompassionate future karma for ourselves?

 

On the other hand if we see the starving kids in Africa and are like "damn I don't know what they did in a past life to deserve that, but I want to do all I can to help them" then we make a good karmic choice that will benefit us in the future as well as the hungry kids now.

 

So I think the fatalistic "oh its just their past karma" attitude forgets about how karma is formed in the present.

Not at all about the " past karma" outlook. Just because one has that out look, doesn't mean they forget about anything on how karma was formed. Therefore, any views about it is simply the cultivator's own thinking. Just because on sees why something is the way it is, doesn't mean that must carry along with it a detached manner of behavior. That is a construct those who misunderstood the teachings figured. They figured Buddhism is about f-the world, and get on with your own business. Not at all. KNowing the causes allows us to understand why things are manifest the way they are. Anything else in terms of view points added, is the responsibility of the person viewing. Not the teachings.

 

Recognizing the causes is one thing, placing a view upon it is a totally other thing altogether. :-)

 

Past causes of certain deeds which results in wealth, may not be in one's lifetime. It may take many lifetimes to amass a grand amount of the vibration which leads to wealth. And then, in a lifetime one receives those fruits. Nothing big.

There is no mercy in karma. Its as simple as "do this, get that. do a multitude of things, and get a myriad outcome of those things combined (perhaps)".

Edited May 13, 2013 by 林愛偉

[xor]

 

 

On the other hand if we see the starving kids in Africa and are like "damn I don't know what they did in a past life to deserve that, but I want to do all I can to help them" then we make a good karmic choice that will benefit us in the future as well as the hungry kids now.

 

So I think the fatalistic "oh its just their past karma" attitude forgets about how karma is formed in the present.

 

Just had a rare moment of watching TV. It was a documentary about Ethiopia. Anyone remember that country? It seems they have the best farming land anywhere in the world and Indian corporations are buying up the land to grow GM rice that the CEO says will be sold as regular basmati rice. Soon 10% of all the rice in the world is going to be produced in a relatively small area of a country still experiencing famine. They are going to expand that land to grow even more.

 

In the process they destroyed local holy places to make offices and are destroying the farms and infrastructure of local tribesmen as well as diverting a river to water their crops. Ethiopian food will soon fill the shelves all over the world.

 

As a sidenote: The tribesmen had perfect teeth

[Mandrake]

Yes its true the top one hundred earners made over 160 billion pounds last year which is enough according to Oxfam to rid the world of poverty four times over.

 

"the Dao of heaven is to take from those who have far too much and give to those who do not have enough

Man's way is different;

he takes from those who do not have enough and gives to those who already have far too much."

Li Erh Xian Shi

 

Should a Daoist be rich?

Is there really any hope for the human race?

 

Poverty is to quite a degree the result of lacking the internal, relational and societal infrastructures for producing, distributing and keeping wealth.

 

You can sprinkle billions on some countries/societies, and in the end, the change will be nil. Idealists enjoy making these comparisons about the top x% earners with various parameters of poverty; there is a lot of research about the causes of poverty, corruption etc. and practical experience from the areas that suffer. A lot has to do with societal institutions and they will not budge just because of money. People underestimate how much time, people, knowledge and resources has to go into coming up with viable strategies for reshaping poverty stricken places to the better.

 

 

Mandrake

[runner11]

A widening gap between rich and poor seems to be the downfall of many great civilizations. Over the past 50 years the gap between rich and poor in the US has widened astronomically. Poor and middle class salaries aren't keeping up with inflation, and the top 10% salaries are surpassing inflation. Essentially, there is not much of a middle class left in the US. Most people are either rich or poor. Its obvious why this would cause an empire to crumble. Its hard for people to be productive when they don't even have their basic needs met, let alone a proper education. I'm not an economist or sociologist so I have no idea exactly why this happens, but I know the root cause, like most problems, is greed.

[gendao]

Yes its true the top one hundred earners made over 160 billion pounds last year which is enough according to Oxfam to rid the world of poverty four times over.

The roots of poverty (or any other dysfunction like alcoholism, really) cannot simply be cured with money. That root change must always come from within.

 

In fact, throwing more money at such symptoms of deeper dysfunctions or unsustainable lifestyles only enables, perpetuates and exacerbates them. Affirmative action quickly becomes a crutch that weakens and encourages dependence.

 

This can be seen most dramatically with ~60 years of AFRIC0M, for instance..

'Everybody knows it doesn't work' Despite receiving more than $1 trillion from the west over the last half century, Africa remains in dire economic straits. Dambisa Moyo thinks aid is to blame and should stop now. She talks to Aida Edemariam

 

What she means is "systemic aid", the vast sums regularly transferred from government to government, or via institutions such as the World Bank.

 

More than $1 trillion has been sent to Africa over the last 50 years. And what has it all achieved? She wants to know. "Between 1970 and 1998, when aid flows to Africa were at their peak, poverty in Africa rose from 11% to a staggering 66%" - roughly 600 million of Africa's billion people are now trapped in poverty.

 

The rest of the world is going one direction, on one growth trajectory, and Africa is going completely in the opposite direction. And yet we sit around and discuss sending another $50bn dollars of aid? I mean, come on.

 

"the largely unspoken and insidious view that the problem with Africa is Africans - that culturally, mentally and physically Africans are innately different. That, somehow, deeply embedded in their psyche is an inability to embrace development and improve their own lot in life without guidance and help." Her argument is that, for whatever reason, the problem is "pity. We don't feel sorry for the Chinese. The Chinese have 30 million people who live like us, if you will. Western standards, but a billion people living in dire poverty. Do you think anybody feels sorry for the Chinese? No. What about Indians? India has a huge proportion of poverty-stricken [people] - does anybody feel sorry for them?"

 

the pity, in her reading, has been devastating. It has meant a blind eye being turned to corruption - aid being like striking oil, or finding diamonds, in its potential to tempt. It has meant a kind of continent-wide addiction

 

Over the past 50 years 40 million Africans have died in war - equal to the population of South Africa.

 

Like many of us who grew up in Africa (in my case, Ethiopia, where, she claims, 97% of the government budget is attributed to foreign aid), she saw the aid economy in action - the flash 4x4s, the high salaries, the foreign workers living cushioned lives on nice exchange rates. "In addition it was clear how little say not only the citizens have, but the governments have. You hardly ever saw participation from domestic policymakers in designing and discussing what was, essentially, our future - Africa's future.

 

it is people like Bob Geldof and Bono, the most visible representatives of what she calls, in a thrillingly withering manner, "glamour aid"

 

She proposes more dealings with the Chinese, who, she says, have done more for Africa's infrastructure and economic growth in the last five years than America has done in the last 50.

She refers to surveys that indicate local people feel things have improved with the arrival of the Chinese, "in terms of living standards, incomes, jobs, and so on. It suggests to me that people feel this new model seems to be working, where Africans are treated as equal partners."

 

Capitalism is undoubtedly, unquestionably, the system that has best delivered and reduced poverty. Bar none. Even with its flaws. There is not another system that has delivered more.

Giving alms to Africa remains one of the biggest ideas of our time -- millions march for it, governments are judged by it, celebrities proselytize the need for it. Calls for more aid to Africa are growing louder, with advocates pushing for doubling the roughly $50 billion of international assistance that already goes to Africa each year.

 

Yet evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that aid to Africa has made the poor poorer, and the growth slower. The insidious aid culture has left African countries more debt-laden, more inflation-prone, more vulnerable to the vagaries of the currency markets and more unattractive to higher-quality investment. It's increased the risk of civil conflict and unrest (the fact that over 60% of sub-Saharan Africa's population is under the age of 24 with few economic prospects is a cause for worry). Aid is an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster.

 

Over the past 60 years at least $1 trillion of development-related aid has been transferred from rich countries to Africa. Yet real per-capita income today is lower than it was in the 1970s, and more than 50% of the population -- over 350 million people -- live on less than a dollar a day, a figure that has nearly doubled in two decades.

Meanwhile, despite no aid and nothing but constant Cold War rhetoric from the US during the same timeframe, look at what China has accomplished merely since 1990 - as Asia has shifted away from Communism into capitalism and reduced overbreeding:

Edited May 15, 2013 by vortex

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Not one for poverty or liking of it, but upon contemplation

 

The idea of excess seems to be a concept, does excess exist in nature, it is part of nature right?

 

Also I agree with protector to some degree, if a person is wise, then is it not a "good" idea for them to be wealthy too.

 

getting into concepts again so yeh away i go

 

 

 

Breast Implants, Botox, "cosmetic surgury" for permanent makeup, Pornographic slavery of men, women, AND children, animal abuse, child abuse, spousal abuse, politics. in their entireity. The Human History of the World is the case in point AND the REASON, the very source, of hope for the human race...

 

 

If the human race did not suffer, there WOULD NOT be hope, for hope is reserved for those in suffering to rise above it and become cleansed of, or at the very least immune to, corruption.

 

 

 

 

P.S. In my personal opinion, Humans, collectively, arent a race, but a species

 

Where's the thread about 5 races of human again? LOL

[Mikeb85]

Yes its true the top one hundred earners made over 160 billion pounds last year which is enough according to Oxfam to rid the world of poverty four times over.

 

"the Dao of heaven is to take from those who have far too much and give to those who do not have enough

Man's way is different;

he takes from those who do not have enough and gives to those who already have far too much."

Li Erh Xian Shi

 

Should a Daoist be rich?

Is there really any hope for the human race?

 

 

The top 100 may be worth a combined 160 billion pounds, or even have increased their net worth by that amount, but they definitely did not 'make' that amount in cash. There's a vast difference between someone's net worth, and their liquid assets.

 

And there's nothing inherently wrong with being rich, and being poor doesn't necessarily make you good either. It really depends how you make use of what you have.

[paulno]

Exactly. There comes a time you have to stop hoping for divine or celebratory intervention, roll up your sleeves and do something yourself. Here's one of my favorite charities: https://secure1.heifer.org/gift-catalog?msource=magento

Flock o Chickens: Provide nutrition for family, a product to sell, they eat insects, scratching and dung makes the earth more fertile, future flocks can be given away to help other families and ofcourse they make good soup.

Well said. Poverty absolutely sucks. Help people.

[thelerner]

It's not all bad news. We're coming off the worst recession since 1929. Things may be looking up. Things cycle, even greed goes out of fashion.

 

More Billionaires Pledge to Give Away Half Their Wealth

By Good News Network Sunday, May 12, 2013

Nine more wealthy families and individuals have pledged to give at least half of their fortunes to charity as part of a giving campaign by two of the world's richest men, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates.

Some of the big names joining The Giving Pledge, which was launched in 2010, include real estate magnate and Miami Dolphin team owner Stephen Ross, Sara Blakely, the founder of SPANX, and Britain's Lord Ashcroft.

This brings the total number of signers of The Giving Pledge to 114. The group includes CNN founder Ted Turner, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Sir Richard Branson, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg, and Hollywood director George Lucas. See the full list at GivingPledge.org.

Edited May 15, 2013 by thelerner