The Legitimacy of Martial Arts Practices.

[ChiDragon]

In martial arts, there are two classifications were considered by the practitioners. These two classifications are categorized as whether they are legitimate or illegitimate.

A legitimate practice which does not cause body harm but good to the body as the result of the practice. It was considered to be something that is traditional and confirmed unanimously by consensus of the legitimate group of practitioners.

An illegitimate practice which may cause body harm during the process of the practice. The practice can be easily engaged into "run over fire and enter the devilish path". Any immoral act or witchcraft in the practice was also considered to be an illegitimate practice. These kinds of practices are straightly forbidden to be practiced by the legitimate group.

BTW Throughout the Chinese history, shamanism was forbidden, by all rulers, to be practiced in the palaces.

Edited January 21, 2013 by ChiDragon

[MERCELESS ONE]

interesting! i can see this on multiple levels. to me its whatever works! legit/illegit dosent matter! ive seen fighters get destroyed using either.

[takaaki]

In martial arts, there are two classifications were considered by the practitioners. These two classifications are categorized as whether they are legitimate or illegitimate.

 

 

You should have entitled your thread "The Legitimacy of Daoist Practices". This would definitely draw in the crowds.

 

A legitimate practice which does not cause body harm but good to the body as the result of the practice. It was considered to be something that is traditional and confirmed unanimously by consensus of the legitimate group of practitioners.

 

 

Bodily harm is a good criterion. Shouldn't this also cover bodily harm to all beings and not just the practitioner?

 

What about psychological harm such as causing fear and anxiety as well as delusions of grandeur?

 

 

An illegitimate practice which may cause body harm during the process of the practice. The practice can be easily engaged into "run over fire and enter the devilish path". Any immoral act or witchcraft in the practice was also considered to be an illegitimate practice. These kinds of practices are straightly forbidden to be practiced by the legitimate group.

 

 

Immoral act is a good criterion. Good is no longer good and bad is great these days. Satan rules. The Bible warns about this as we approach the end of the world. We need a moral compass. How do we pin this down? Many here will not like this.

 

BTW Throughout the Chinese history, shamanism was forbidden, by all rulers, to be practiced in the palaces.

 

According to Wikipedia, shamanism is:

 

"Shamanism is a practice that involves a practitioner reaching altered states of consciousness in order to encounter and interact with the spirit world.^[2] A shaman is a person regarded as having access to, and influence in the world of benevolent and malevolent spirits, who typically enters into a trance state during a ritual, and practices divination and healing."

 

Are you sure shamanism was not practised by Chinese Emperors? This doesn't mean they are practising legitimate Daoism. They could well be deviants.

[templetao]

This is my understanding
Buddha taught the shaolin monks one complete nata and 2 pratimas of the Bodhisattva Vajramukti, namely the nata of Buddhist Lion Play School and 2 of its pratimas(shorter sequences). The nata was called Astadasavijaya which means 18 subduings. This practice was absorbed by the chinese and was called the Shiba Luohan Shou or the 18 hand movements of the immortals (Arahants). The chinese term xing served as a translation of both nata and pratima. The Shiba Luohan Shou was the most important buddhist nata/xing introduced into china. Which became knows as the Shaolin Szu school of martial arts or Quan Fa. Which translated into the 18 Buddha boxing methods. The 2 shorter pratimas or forms taught in this were the Asthimajja Parisuddi- which is a buddhist movement and respiratory yoga for tissue regeneration, catharsis, and karmic recognition. In chinese this became known as the Xisuijing. The second pratima was the Snavasjala Nidana Vijnpti which in chinese is called the Yijinjing which is a type of isometric exercises and meditations which builds vitlatiy and can change the health from poor to good. So basically meaning that the xisuijing and the yijinjing were 2 small energy practices of the larger vajramukti which was termed Quanfa in chinese and this spread during the tang dynasty(600-900A.D.) This gave birth to the 18 Luohan monk forms. In time the word xing began to mean mind body spirit relationship. Xing got shorted to the word sanchan meaning triple battle. This in time was changed to santi and the santi position was the position for cultivating xing. The santi position is a mudra from vajrmukti and this whole body position was known as Trilokavijayakayaashana meaning the postion of one who subdues the 3 realms. This position takes the shape of a vajra. This was the evolution of vajramuti to shaolin into xingyiquan. marshel Yue Fei did not create xingyiquan he was the first to bring it to the forefront the practice was secret until this time.

[ChiDragon]

Now it comes to the question is the Mao Shan(茅山) shaman was considered to be 邪教(illegitimate cult). Let's examine the Mao Shan sect in this new thread to determine the truth about the deviant harmful derivative of the Dao De Jing.

Based on the definition in the OP:
An illegitimate practice which may cause body harm during the process of the practice. The practice can be easily engaged into "run over fire and enter the devilish path". Any immoral act or witchcraft in the practice was also considered to be an illegitimate practice. These kinds of practices are straightly forbidden to be practiced by the legitimate group.

Mao Shan(茅山) Cult was well known to be a 邪派(illegitimate sect) in China. This is the only group which performs witchcraft.
They may be hired by someone with sinister thought to perform a ritual service to harm a third person. They write down the birthday of the person on a woodoo doll to cast a spell by sticking pins onto the doll to inflict pains to that person. In addition, they also can perform other supernatural power like summon a deity into a person's body and act like the summoned deity with super strength.

As far as the TTC was concern, it was a piece of a stand alone document. It has no connection with the shamanism; it was only a matter of interpretation by people who want to interpreted as they please.

[takaaki]

What is your point, Templetao?

[templetao]

My point being thus. martial that came from shaolin was influenced by vajramukti. If your practicing martial arts without internal power training your practicing martial arts from a much earlier age. Even though today martial arts is popular alot of valid teaching is still slow on coming out.

Edited January 21, 2013 by templetao

[ChiDragon]

1. You should have entitled your thread "The Legitimacy of Daoist Practices". This would definitely draw in the crowds.

2. Bodily harm is a good criterion. Shouldn't this also cover bodily harm to all beings and not just the practitioner?

 

3. What about psychological harm such as causing fear and anxiety as well as delusions of grandeur?

 

4. Immoral act is a good criterion. Good is no longer good and bad is great these days. Satan rules. The Bible warns about this as we approach the end of the world. We need a moral compass. How do we pin this down? Many here will not like this.

5. According to Wikipedia, shamanism is:

 

"Shamanism is a practice that involves a practitioner reaching altered states of consciousness in order to encounter and interact with the spirit world.^[2] A shaman is a person regarded as having access to, and influence in the world of benevolent and malevolent spirits, who typically enters into a trance state during a ritual, and practices divination and healing."

 

6. Are you sure shamanism was not practised by Chinese Emperors? This doesn't mean they are practising legitimate Daoism. They could well be deviants.

 

1. Please don't try to change the title. It applies to all martial arts. Especially, there are lots of offshoot methods of internal practice which are causing internal bodily harm. Thus we must not restrict this to Taoist practices only.

2. Bodily harm was applied to internal damage causing by any practice.

3. I would say that should be included.

5. The definition is too broad in the Wikipedia, I do not wish to pin it down.

 

6. It was forbidden in a more civilized society. I am sure that the Chinese Emperors do not want any pains inflicted to them in the palace.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Now, it is time to say that any practice for the enhancement of sexual energy was is considered to be an illegitimate practice. For those who are under the pursuit of sexual energy enhancement, please consider to have a second thought before the occurrence of any internal bodily injuries or running over fire and entering the devilish path(走火入魔). However, semen retention may be excluded because it does no body harm nor does any enhancement.

Edited January 24, 2013 by ChiDragon

[takaaki]

My point being thus. martial that came from shaolin was influenced by vajramukti. If your practicing martial arts without internal power training your practicing martial arts from a much earlier age. Even though today martial arts is popular alot of valid teaching is still slow on coming out.

 

I find this hard to swallow.

[templetao]

I dont care....

[takaaki]

I dont care....

 

You should care about sharing information that is purported to be factual. To say that India transmitted Kung Fu to China is to say that China transmitted 21st century technological innovation to America.

[takaaki]

Now, it is time to say that any practice for the enhancement of sexual energy was considered to be an illegitimate practice. For those who are under the pursuit of sexual energy enhancement, please consider to have a second thought before the occurrence of any internal bodily injuries or running over fire and entering the devilish path(走火入魔). However, semen retention may be excluded because it does no body harm nor does any enhancement.

 

Semen retention is a purposeful act that violates the natural function of the body. Why is it not illegitimate practice?

[Alchemistgeorge]

Now, it is time to say that any practice for the enhancement of sexual energy was considered to be an illegitimate practice. <snip>

 

was considered?

 

is considered?

 

 

 

Thanks.

[templetao]

Instead of just saying im wrong do the research and prove it. stop being lazy....

[takaaki]

Instead of just saying im wrong do the research and prove it. stop being lazy....

I did. Bodhiharma was recorded as the guy who taught the Shaolin monks that fearsome form of Kung Fu. He did that after 9 years sitting in a cave looking at a wall because they wouldn't let him in the Shaolin Temple. He cut his eyelids off to keep his eyes open to avoid falling asleep during meditation and when he finally emerged from the cave, his legs were atrophied. This is why Bodhiharma dolls have no legs. And you expect me to believe that this legless wacko taught Kung Fu to Shaolin fighters who bear the marks of the dragon and tiger burnt into their flesh as they lift a red hot urn of coals held between their fore-arms upon graduation?

 

Watch the Bollywood movie fight scenes. They are ridiculous. Even the Indians laugh at them.

Edited January 24, 2013 by takaaki

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Guess my path is "illegetimate" since i've hurt myself a plenty in striking trees and signposts for practice, fell on my back and knocked the wind out of myself doing handstands, stuck my hand in a sub-boiling pot of water to test my own mind, twisted my ankle/knee/hip by improperly executing a roundhouse kick, and allowed friends to beat my bare back with plastic retractable star wars light sabers... oh yeah and i was willingly tazed... need to get ahold of the vids...



AND lets not forget my all encompassing infinitesimal omniversal union perspective... that view alone renders everything as all else, and all as everything... in other words, you cant speak without performing witchcraft EVERYTHING YOU DO IS A SACRED RITUAL!!! MWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!


Guess i walked down a darker path than i thought!

[ChiDragon]

was considered?

 

is considered?

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

Is considered.

 

Sorry for the bad English. I am having trouble with the tense in English due to English is my second language. But I am learning from you all in all aspects. Thanks.

Edited January 25, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Guess my path is "illegetimate" since i've hurt myself a plenty in striking trees and signposts for practice, fell on my back and knocked the wind out of myself doing handstands, stuck my hand in a sub-boiling pot of water to test my own mind, twisted my ankle/knee/hip by improperly executing a roundhouse kick, and allowed friends to beat my bare back with plastic retractable star wars light sabers... oh yeah and i was willingly tazed... need to get ahold of the vids...

 

 

 

Sorry, you did not fall into this category:

"Bodily harm was applied to internal damage causing by any practice." Causing "Internal injury" is the keyword to the "illegitimate practice".

Edited January 24, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Semen retention is a purposeful act that violates the natural function of the body. Why is it not illegitimate practice?

 

 

My previous post quote:

"Now, it is time to say that any practice for the enhancement of sexual energy was considered to be an illegitimate practice. For those who are under the pursuit of sexual energy enhancement, please consider to have a second thought before the occurrence of any internal bodily injuries or running over fire and entering the devilish path(走火入魔). However, semen retention may be excluded because it does no body harm nor does any enhancement."

 

Please read the last line in bold.

 

Semen retention is like not having sex at all. Do you consider not having sex violates the natural function of the body....??? Can you tell that to the Buddhist monks or some Taoist priests...???

Edited January 24, 2013 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

 

 

My previous post quote:

"Now, it is time to say that any practice for the enhancement of sexual energy was considered to be an illegitimate practice. For those who are under the pursuit of sexual energy enhancement, please consider to have a second thought before the occurrence of any internal bodily injuries or running over fire and entering the devilish path(走火入魔). However, semen retention may be excluded because it does no body harm nor does any enhancement."

 

Please read the last line in bold.

 

Semen retention is like not having sex at all. Do you consider not having sex violates the natural function of the body....??? Can you tell that to the Buddhist monks or some Taoist priests...???

 

I see the point as having to do with semen retention practices... These practices can be dangerous and do harm to the body. And I would agree with T that it goes against its own nature at some point.

[ChiDragon]

These practices can be dangerous and do harm to the body.

 

HOW....???

[dawei]

 

HOW....???

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/23862-the-dangers-of-semen-retention/

 

FYI: you posted fourth in this thread.

[ChiDragon]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/23862-the-dangers-of-semen-retention/

 

FYI: you posted fourth in this thread.

 

I want his words not mine. He may understand differently than mine.

[takaaki]

Semen retention is like not having sex at all. Do you consider not having sex violates the natural function of the body....??? Can you tell that to the Buddhist monks or some Taoist priests...???

 

Not having sex at all is not an issue. If a male tiger never meets a female tiger in its life, it lives out its life just fine. It's not celibacy and its not semen retention. Same for a man who never has sex, if he is as sane as a tiger. He is neither a celibate nor is he practising semen retention.

 

Buddhist monks and Taoist priests are not as sane as tigers. They struggle against the desire for sexual stimulation and this mental battle is called celibacy. They think they are practising semen retention but that is not true. The body recycles semen that is continually produced and re-absorbed.

 

Not having sex is not semen retention. Not emptying your bowels is faeces retention. The body doesn't need to have sex but it needs to empty its bowels.