The Legitimacy of Martial Arts Practices.

[dawei]

You don't like to be lumped together with other people? Ok, I will keep that in mind and put you in your own box from now on. I know that I tend to lump people together and put them into different categories based on their mind-sets for faster targeting and speedier processing. This is the way the entrepreneurial mind works these days in any industry including the military. Case in point: soldiers are not taught to deal with Dawei or ChiDragon on an individual basis in the theatre of war. The enemy combatants, if Chinese, are all lumped together and psychologically profiled for neutralizing.

 

It is true that there is this pervasive belief in individuality that each person is special and unique. If you are in the top 1%, you could get away with indulging in this fantasy having your clothes tailored exactly, your cars hand-made to your personal specs, etc.. I didn't know I was dealing with ego-centric billionaires here at Tao Bum. Still, I will treat you special because I like high self-esteem. It is the mind-set of an American Taoist.

 

I'll let the mod's deal with this... it has nothing to do with 'lumping together' but manipulating people's words.

 

Why are you against the "received text"? Do you have any reason to doubt the judgment of the native scholars?

 

I have nothing to go on or by for who this secret group is and how they arrive at anything they have; whereever that secret text is kept too. They are so far removed from any understanding of 300 B.C. writing, how can they understand the time of Chu and what is the influences of those times? Ergo, I'll stick to the older texts.

 

Do not confuse American liberalism with pragmatism which is the Way of the American Taoist. The former is a cult-like close-mindedness while the latter is founded on common-sense. The Dao De Jing has to make practical sense or it's pointless regardless of textual form. I pick what works, the way Marblehead does, and and disregard what is unrelated, the way Chi Dragon does.

 

I don't know what your point is on this "American liberalism" and "American Taoist". Why don't you start a thread and explain your idea instead of repeating it in many threads.

 

Nothing sexual was implied? I wish. How would you read the lines below?

 

This is ChiDragon's received version:

7. Not knowing the copulation of male and female but self erected.

8. Because of the tremendous energy,

 

Yes, nothing sexual was implied... Is english your first or second language?

 

 

This is Hendricks whom you love:

6. He does not yet know the meeting of male and female, yet his organ is aroused—

7. This is because his essence is at its height.

 

Any man who studies the above and come away reflecting on a full bladder has got to be Chinese with no knowledge of English. Admittedly, the Chinese text makes no reference of a sexual nature of any kind. It's the English translations that are colored by Freudian fantasy.

 

Exactly where did I say I love Hendricks? You have the same comprehension problems as you relate above. I have no affinity for Hendrick and his translations. Although his works deserve something for their effort. It would be good if you stopped misrepresenting and misinterpreting words and stick to the discussion items.

 

Hendricks choose his translation. So be it. I would agree that there is no reference of a sexual nature. I have been saying that. We can say it simply with as few words.

Edited January 27, 2013 by dawei

[ChiDragon]

dawei said:
"I have nothing to go on or by for who this secret group is and how they arrive at anything they have; whereever that secret text is kept too. They are so far removed from any understanding of 300 B.C. writing, how can they understand the time of Chu and what is the influences of those times? Ergo, I'll stick to the older texts."

There is no secret about it. They are written in Chinese and you can buy them books allover China if you can understand what they wrote.

Are you any closer from any understanding of 300 B.C. writing, how can you understand the time of Chu and what is the influences of those times? Even though, you'll stick to the older texts.

dawei asked:
"Is english English your first or second language?"
Based on his(takaaki) eloquence judged from his writing, is there a need for asking such question.....???

Edited January 28, 2013 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

They are written in Chinese and you can buy them books allover China. If you can understand what they wrote.

 

I rest my case... thank you counselor

[dawei]

Are you any closer from any understanding of 300 B.C. writing, how can you understand the time of Chu and what is the influences of those times? Ergo, you'll stick to the older texts."

 

I think this was a second part to your point... In some ways, I would say yes... but I doubt this is the thread to really discuss the received text.

 

I think most are unaware of it, its background, etc...

 

If you did a thread on it, it would probably be very informative but I would not take non-participation as an issue as nobody really knows about it.

[ChiDragon]

Well, all my translations were done based on the Received Version in the Tao Te Ching section. The logic just flow from line-to-line and chapter-to-chapter throughout the TTC. Thus that was why my translation was done so smoothly.......

[dawei]

Well, all my translations were done based on the Received Version in the Tao Te Ching section. The logic just flow from line-to-line and chapter-to-chapter throughout the TTC. Thus that was why my translation was done so smoothly.......

 

And humbly

 

To be fair, your sharing of such is the only understanding some might have about the 'received text'. Thanks.

 

Ok... what is this thread about...

[ChiDragon]

 

Ok... what is this thread about...

 

You tell me.......

[takaaki]

And humbly

 

To be fair, your sharing of such is the only understanding some might have about the 'received text'. Thanks.

 

Ok... what is this thread about...

 

This thread is about The Legitimacy of Martial Arts Practices. It led to a referencing of Chapter 55 which posed a question that needed to be clarified on Wang Bi's version as opposed to the corrected received version. Your dismissiveness of the "received version" led to a mini argument which is quite ok. We are still on track.

 

I am sure you have good reasons to prefer the older texts but your disregard for the "received version" is puzzling. You don't give specific grounds for invalidating the "received version" which ChiDragon explained as the resultant work of Chinese scholars through the ages. This is the traditional practice of Chinese scholarship - each subsequent generation preserve and clarify the work of the generation before.

 

I noticed that you are quite receptive of Flowing Hands' received version transmitted to him by Li Erh. Is it because it is the oldest text from the author of the Tao Te Ching itself?

[dawei]

This thread is about The Legitimacy of Martial Arts Practices. It led to a referencing of Chapter 55 which posed a question that needed to be clarified on Wang Bi's version as opposed to the corrected received version. Your dismissiveness of the "received version" led to a mini argument which is quite ok. We are still on track.

 

I am sure you have good reasons to prefer the older texts but your disregard for the "received version" is puzzling. You don't give specific grounds for invalidating the "received version" which ChiDragon explained as the resultant work of Chinese scholars through the ages. This is the traditional practice of Chinese scholarship - each subsequent generation preserve and clarify the work of the generation before.

 

I noticed that you are quite receptive of Flowing Hands' received version transmitted to him by Li Erh. Is it because it is the oldest text from the author of the Tao Te Ching itself?

 

I gave my reasons. Show me westerners who have access to it as widely as Wang Bi... You forgot your own pragmatic advice. Your selectively ignoring or choosing to play some game as you seem wont to do. Not going to get sucked into this one either.

 

Have you ever practiced anything beyond words? What is beyond the physical realm? I'll give you at least two realms: Energetic and Spiritual.

 

When you and your scholars pay attention to all three realms, as Lao Zi did... then we will have something more to discuss as to my reasons...

 

Hope your having fun.

[takaaki]

dawei said:

"I have nothing to go on or by for who this secret group is and how they arrive at anything they have; whereever that secret text is kept too. They are so far removed from any understanding of 300 B.C. writing, how can they understand the time of Chu and what is the influences of those times? Ergo, I'll stick to the older texts."

 

There is no secret about it. They are written in Chinese and you can buy them books allover China if you can understand what they wrote.

 

If there is no secret about it, then why is Dawei insisting that it is an obscure piece of work? He may not like its form but is there any credible, established information on the development of the "received version"?

 

Facts are easy to establish. What do you say?

[dawei]

If there is no secret about it, then why is Dawei insisting that it is an obscure piece of work? He may not like its form but is there any credible, established information on the development of the "received version"?

 

Facts are easy to establish. What do you say?

 

SHOW ME WHERE IT IS AS AVAILABLE AND KNOWN AS WANG BI?

 

It is more obscure than the Guodian... which is the oldest text.

 

Why don't we stick to something more useful to discuss. You guys can start a thread about the received text... and reveal this foundation of youth to all. Give all the western links possible as the western world awaits your game of the 'received text'.

[ChiDragon]

If there is no secret about it, then why is Dawei insisting that it is an obscure piece of work? He may not like its form but is there any credible, established information on the development of the "received version"?

 

Facts are easy to establish. What do you say?

 

It is not a problem. I'm glad to start a new thread to discuss Chapter one to begin with. It would be a change of pace for me to discuss the TTC with an open and logical mind individual who has great interest of what I had been keeping to myself for sometime. Thanks for given me the great opportunity.

Edited January 28, 2013 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

I would say... as usually... the message is not understand... and personal goals are pushed forward...

 

The request is to show the links and references and commentary and examination of the received text.

 

Show us all the western links that exists to help the western world read the received text for itself.

 

if we are only to read ChiDragon's translation of some secret text... then we are only reading ChiDragon's translation.

 

The western world deserves to see the received text examined from a western scholarship point of view.

 

Can you provide this instead of your own personal opinion and translation so others may research it?

[ChiDragon]

takaaki....

I have the impression that you have some knowledge of the Chinese characters. Can you give me a rough idea of your ability in understanding the Chinese characters. Can you understand them by looking at them without looking up in a dictionary character by character to guess their meanings.....??? I need to know this in advance so I can present the discussion to a certain level. Thanks.

Edited January 28, 2013 by ChiDragon

[takaaki]

I gave my reasons. Show me westerners who have access to it as widely as Wang Bi... You forgot your own pragmatic advice. Your selectively ignoring or choosing to play some game as you seem wont to do. Not going to get sucked into this one either.

 

Westerners access? Are you implying that ChiDragon's received version is in Chinese only? Can't you read Chinese? Maybe you are not Chinese after all. I have assumed that you are Chinese because of your expertise in debating applicability of various Chinese characters. Ok, I get it. To you, any Chinese scholarly work on the Tao Te Ching not worth translating for the western audience is not worth looking at.

 

 

Have you ever practiced anything beyond words? What is beyond the physical realm? I'll give you at least two realms: Energetic and Spiritual.

 

I don't know if I can call it the physical realm because not everything coming to me through the Heavenly Gate (five senses) can be explained through physics. This is because this branch of physical science upon which materialism is based cannot capture materialist reality in its entirety. So, I do practise some things beyond words. As an American Taoist, I pay attention to only two realms: the physical realm and, beyond that, the realm of common-sense.

 

 

When you and your scholars pay attention to all three realms, as Lao Zi did... then we will have something more to discuss as to my reasons...

 

Ok, thanks for clarifying. You pay attention to all three realms. I pay attention to two. I don't believe in multi-culturalism either. No foreign-aid. You stay out of my way and I stay out of yours.

 

Adios.

Edited January 28, 2013 by takaaki

[dawei]

Westerners access? Are you implying that ChiDragon's received version is in Chinese only? Can't you read Chinese? Maybe you are not Chinese after all. I have assumed that you are Chinese because of your expertise in debating applicability of various Chinese characters. Ok, I get it. To you, any Chinese scholarly work on the Tao Te Ching not worth translating for the western audience is not worth looking at.

 

I am not sure if you realized this or not... but this is a western website. So it would be natural to expect western scholarship to weigh in so that those who want to read it in english can... I think that is perfectly reasonable. I accept that others may feel that hiding everything in chinese is ok. I am not about my own agenda or your's or ChiD's... but this site. What works best for the whole seems reasonable at a site like this so that more can think, learn, contribute, etc.

 

I don't know if I can call it the physical realm because not everything coming to me through the Heavenly Gate (five senses) can be explained through physics. This is because this branch of physical science upon which materialism is based cannot capture materialist reality in its entirety. So, I do practise some things beyond words. As an American Taoist, I pay attention to only two realms: the physical realm and, beyond that, the realm of common-sense.

 

I accept these limitations. thanks for sharing it. Now I understand more. I might guess you believe in 'philosophical taoism' as an idea... Sorry... for it, it is all one... together... we just see and experience different realms at times. If your stuck in the first one alone (and you've only really described one-physical), then that is just where things are. And that is ok.

[takaaki]

takaaki....

 

I have the impression that you have some knowledge of the Chinese characters. Can you give me a rough idea of your ability in understanding the Chinese characters. Can you understand them by looking at them without looking up in a dictionary character by character to guess their meanings.....??? I need to know this in advance so I can present the discussion to a certain level. Thanks.

 

I hate to reveal my skill-level as there are many kung fu fighters here who are intent on giving me a deadly blow. But I do want to benefit from your level of Chinese scholarship which is superior to mine.

 

I can read Chinese but not at a proficient classical level. I have Chinese ancestry traceable back 14 generations as recorded in our family tree that identifies the station and profession of my forbears who were Mandarins and scholars. This academic lineage has inspired me from the day I set eyes on calligraphic work (kept in family archive) composed by ancestors for the Imperial Exams. Great-grandfather, a contemporary of the likes of John Wu, was headmaster of schools he founded in Guangzhou and Hong Kong. His successful sons (who were the patrons and supporters of Dr. Sun Yat Sen) mounted a media campaign in support of the revolution through the Chinese newspapers they own throughout South-East Asia. I tell you this so you know that I am not just a western-educated mutt who is curious in airy-fairy Chinese spiritual nonsense. I have a filial commitment to reclaim my roots.

 

Please proceed with your discussion. I look forward to learning what you have to offer to me and others..

Edited January 28, 2013 by takaaki

[ChiDragon]

takaaki...
I apologize for causing your uneasiness in revealing your true identity. I am no better than anybody else. Perhaps, I just happened to be spent a little more time finding the right sources to learn a bit more. Wait until you know what I knew, we'll be even. The word "superior" was a gushing compliment(言重了). I thank you for your modesty and humbleness.

I am glad that we are bilingual which will give us a better chance not to have any misunderstanding in our communications. Anyway, to avoid any further personal conflicts, let's have our scholastic discussion in the 道家學說 Section where the classic text is presentable over there.

Edited January 28, 2013 by ChiDragon