Did the Dalai Lama use a Siddhi power on this scientist?

[Jetsun]

Sorry this is very long but I think it is worth it

 

In the year 2000 the scientist Paul Ekman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ekman attended the Mind and Life conference with the Dalai Lama, Ekman is considered the world expert on facial expressions and a very highly respected scientist, but there was controversy as he was an extreme skeptic and saw no value in religion or Buddhism at all. Alan Wallace was very reluctant to even invite him in the first place because of the level of his skepticism and he was known to all his colleagues to have an extreme temper so was worried he would be disruptive influence, but Ekman decided to attend as his daughter Eve wanted a chance to meet the Dalai Lama.

 

On the third day of the conference, as the scientists and observers left the cramped conference hall for a tea break, Ekman saw his chance.. Instead of joining his colleagues, Ekman steered his nervous daughter forward to the Dalai Lama, who alone among the eighty-some people in the conference, seemed not to need any breaks. ...Father and daughter sat down in the armchairs on either side of the Tibetan.

 

"This is my daughter", Ekman said to the Dalai Lama. "And she is my spiritual leader. She is the reason I came to this meeting and i'm very grateful for that. Ekman explained that Eve had spent some time living in a Tibetan refugee camp in Nepal when she was fifteen years old, and that because of that experience she was very concerned about the welfare of exiled Tibetans. He said she wanted to ask him a personal question. The Dalai Lama beamed at Eve. He reached over and held Ekman's hand while he waited.

 

" I want to know why we get angriest at those we are in love with" Eve said.

 

The Dalai Lama pondered the question for a moment then told her that we tend to expect too much from the people who are close to us. We develop unrealistic expectations and project nonexistent qualities onto them. He told her a more pragmatic approach is simply to accept their flaws. This would lessen potential disappointment and reduce anger

 

For the duration of this short exchange, the Dalai Lama inexplicably held on to Ekman's hand

 

"I never said another word after introducing Eve, but I had two unusual experiences", Ekman shared some years later with the Dalai Lama. "One was that during the entire ten minutes I was filled with physical warmth. It was not a metaphor ; it was real warmth. I had a very strong physical sensation for which I do not have an English word - it comes closest to warmth but there was no heat. It felt very, very good, very embracing. You were only holding my hand. It was like nothing I had ever felt before or after"

 

"The other unusual experience I had was almost a hallucination" Ekman continued "We were in the conference room and there were other people waiting for their chance to talk to you. I had this visual impression that Eve and I and you were encapsulated. Looking out into the room was like looking at the world through the wrong end of binoculars. Although people were quite close, maybe four feet away, it appeared to me as if they were hundreds of feet away"

 

"Sometimes you actually experience that kind of vision - distant vision" the Dalai Lama replied

"As a scientist, I do not know how to explain it. But that does not mean it is not susceptible to scientific explanation. I just do not know where to start."

 

After this event the irritation and boredom that Ekman had been experiencing at having to attend the conference was gone. At the end of the conference the Dalai Lama said "Is this going to be just for nice conversation or is anything going to happen?" challenging the scientists to turn their words into actual work into how meditation etc affects the mind. Ekman said he felt that the Dalai Lama was talking to him and asking him to take up the challenge and to many people's surprise Ekman the most skeptical and resistant scientist of them all decided to begin a pilot study.

 

That change of attitude was not the only impact of that moment though, intense bouts of anger had been a regular feature of Ekman's life up to that point, he was regularly beaten by his father when growing up and was well know to have an extreme violent temper as a consequence, but when he went to meet his wife after the conference she said she barely recognised him, that he was so mellow that he was not the man she married and didn't have one moment of anger their whole remaining time in India. He had experienced a lifetime of struggle with anger up to that point including seeing psychologists at times but none of it helped, but that moment was a turning point.

 

Years later after the incident Ekman said "I do get angry still. But not very often. Much less often than in the previous seven decades. I still have to work on it a little. But before Dharamsala, in a typical year, i'd had a hundred angry episodes that I regretted. Now I may have five or six"

 

The transformation was so great that he sought out the Dalai Lama at every opportunity to try to get an explanation, he finally got the Dalai Lama to say a few words on what happened:

 

"Something mysterious happened. Okay. Is is good. But these things are not connected to science. Scientists would not have much to say about these strange things. They are my business. They are not for you scientists"

 

All quotes from chap 4 of the book "The Wisdom of Compassion Stories of Remarkable Encounters and Timeless Insights" - Victor Chan and the Dalai Lama

Edited January 22, 2013 by Jetsun

[Jetsun]

Now that is some Siddhi to take away a persons traumatic past to take away their anger, either that or something deeply mysterious had occurred, but I suspect that there was no accident in this. It was a crucial point in the convergence of Buddhism and science also, the only way to get credibility is to get some of the most world renowned scientists on board and people are more likely to believe in a Siddhi if it occurs to the biggest scpetic rather than from a devotee.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Jetsun

[Immortal4life]

You could also tear down, attack, discredit, etc. scientists and institutions. You don't necessarily have to pander to anyone.

 

When eastern spiritualists pander to, or join up with, western ideas, it just makes them look weak or like they feel like they have to supplicate to the west. If anything, the best way is just full disclosure. Give your skills and practices away to those that want them, that's your real value to the world anyways, and disregard and do what you can to undermine those who are against, or fundamentally incompatible with your way of life and your way of thinking.

 

History shows that those who are the victors in this life, usually do it that way. Those that don't do it that way get dominated under the oppressive boots of those that do. Even "peaceful victories" are not actual victories, you just got some result you wanted. It's like what a waste, struggle through suffering and strife your whole life, just to be average while those who oppressed you for years never really get made an example of or defeated.

[Jetsun]

You could also tear down, attack, discredit, etc. scientists and institutions. You don't necessarily have to pander to anyone.

 

When eastern spiritualists pander to, or join up with, western ideas, it just makes them look weak or like they feel like they have to supplicate to the west. If anything, the best way is just full disclosure. Give your skills and practices away to those that want them, that's your real value to the world anyways, and disregard and do what you can to undermine those who are against, or fundamentally incompatible with your way of life and your way of thinking.

 

History shows that those who are the victors in this life, usually do it that way. Those that don't do it that way get dominated under the oppressive boots of those that do. Even "peaceful victories" are not actual victories, you just got some result you wanted. It's like what a waste, struggle through suffering and strife your whole life, just to be average while those who oppressed you for years never really get made an example of or defeated.

 

I think the attempt to bring science and Buddhism together is an attempt at skillful means to try to connect the Dharma to the Western mindset. If you look at the history of Buddhism they had to present the Dharma within the context of the understanding of the culture of that time it appeared, so in India it incorporated a lot of existing Hindu ideas in order that it could be understood and assimilated by the mind of that culture, the same in Tibet where the Dharma was presented in a way not in conflict with the already existing Bon religion. That way they get through to a lot more hearts and minds. Whatever battles are done are supposedly done on the astral spiritual level, it isn't the way of Buddhism to directly assault on the human level of things.

[Immortal4life]

Should the physical level and spiritual level not be aligned? That sounds incongruent

 

If you want to spread your ideas and practices, then make them available. People will like you or they won't. No need to pander to anyone.

 

However, if he really did use a type of power or so called "Siddhi", well that's kind of cool too.

[konchog uma]

i like ekman's research, he is a genius. not surprising that he has anger issues, he is one of the keenest observers of human behavior i know. he can look at a picture of someone and tell all about them by their facial muscles. people that sensitive tend to have issues being overwhelmed by reality in some way or another.

 

beautiful story thank you so much for sharing.. "not for scientists, thats my business" go HHDL set it straight

[skydog]

The Dalai Lama pondered the question for a moment then told her that we tend to expect too much from the people who are close to us. We develop unrealistic expectations and project nonexistent qualities onto them. He told her a more pragmatic approach is simply to accept their flaws. This would lessen potential disappointment and reduce anger

 

well thats profound thanks

[Sanzon]

Sounds more like an example of serendipitous potentiality that was realised than a conscious attempt by the Dalai Lama to influence and overpower another person's mind & emotional patterns by use of a siddhi. This seems not too uncommon an occurrence to happen in the presence of a being of such refinement & high vibration. Such vibrational dischord simply could not occur within the Dalai Lamas presence, but in terms of it being a life changing moment for Eckman, I ponder that he must have had this potentiality brewing otherwise it would not have taken place. It is my experience that people of his character are indeed quite sensitive, & have the opposite pole of his behaviours lying underneath the dischord waiting & truly wanting to be realized. That's my take on it anyway. What an amazing insight he gave that little girl!

Edited January 22, 2013 by Sanzon

[Jetsun]

Sounds more like an example of serendipitous potentiality that was realised than a conscious attempt by the Dalai Lama to influence and overpower another person's mind & emotional patterns by use of a siddhi. This seems not too uncommon an occurrence to happen in the presence of a being of such refinement & high vibration. Such vibrational dischord simply could not occur within the Dalai Lamas presence, but in terms of it being a life changing moment for Eckman, I ponder that he must have had this potentiality brewing otherwise it would not have taken place. It is my experience that people of his character are indeed quite sensitive, & have the opposite pole of his behaviours lying underneath the dischord waiting & truly wanting to be realized. That's my take on it anyway. What an amazing insight he gave that little girl!

 

That makes sense,, maybe previous life karma or potential ripening or something. He says in the book I quoted from:

 

"I believe we were brothers in a previous life" "I feel that he is the younger brother I never had. I know he isn't but it feels that way. I worry about him. If he and I are alive fifty years from now i'm sure scientists will have an explanation about all this , but for now the Dalai Lama is not willing to talk about it."

[Harmonious Emptiness]

"Something mysterious happened. Okay. Is is good. But these things are not connected to science. Scientists would not have much to say about these strange things. They are my business. They are not for you scientists"

 

Hmmm.. state approval of church; church's approval of science; science's approval of spirituality...(?)

[Sanzon]

This has been sitting with me today, & becomes more profound the more I think about it. Ekman underwent a profound healing. The Dalai Lama probably held his hand because the question pertained to him. Perhaps his daughter sought the answer to why her dad could get so angry at her, even though she knew he loves her dearly. The warmth he felt? Probably simple nonjudgmental emotional warmth from one human to another. True compassion. (Oops, don't want to turn this into the other thread on the topic!). Although Ekman possibly still hasn't connected the dots, he may have grown up as a child thinking he himself was responsible for the abuse he suffered at the hands of his parents, (as abusers tend to make the abused believe), and the answer the Dalai Lama gave lifted that burden of responsibility from him, that the actions of other's wasnt to do with him and his behaviour as a child, as innocent or as mischievous as he may have been. It simply wasn't his fault, he was innocent. He may have spent his whole life blaming himself for having received abuse at the hands of others, and went on repeating that pattern of venting emotional distress at others in his own life. The answer his daughter received said he was innocent. The burden of responsibility gone, and from that moment it no longer triggered emotional violence into action. Simple, & yet again, profound.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Sanzon

[Tibetan_Ice]

"The other unusual experience I had was almost a hallucination" Ekman continued "We were in the conference room and there were other people waiting for their chance to talk to you. I had this visual impression that Eve and I and you were encapsulated. Looking out into the room was like looking at the world through the wrong end of binoculars. Although people were quite close, maybe four feet away, it appeared to me as if they were hundreds of feet away"

 

"Sometimes you actually experience that kind of vision - distant vision" the Dalai Lama replied

"As a scientist, I do not know how to explain it. But that does not mean it is not susceptible to scientific explanation. I just do not know where to start."

 

Hi Jetsun, I'm very glad that you posted that story.

 

I'm glad because I have had some experiences exactly like that and now I'm thinking that they are significant.

 

Three or four years ago I had been meditating at work. I usually spent my morning 20 minute breaks in the enclosed phone booth. At that time I was also doing Kunlun and was having some extraordinay visions of the land of ocean, sun and sky. Anyway, the meditation session ended and I got up and started to walk back to my desk. I noticed that I was not where I usually was. Instead of being me in the center of my head, the point of awareness of me was about 4 feet behind my body. I was looking at my body, at the surroundings through a kind of large tunnel. I was in this kind of space and the 'world' was out there. It was like looking through the wrong end of binoculars all right.. The effect lasted for about 1/2 an hour. At the time I couldn't understand what was happening. I thought that I had fallen asleep and that I was really sleep walking. I remember sitting in my office, typing, being active, but just watching myself from behind my body. At the time I was very glad that the effect wore off after 1/2 hour.

 

Last summer in the park where there are beautiful trails, I was practicing an Eckhart Tolle practice, that of changing your perceptual focal point every 1/2 second.. The teaching is that when you first look at a 'new' object, it takes the conceptual mind a second or two to analyze it and kick it. If you change the object of attention before the conceptual mind has a chance to kick in, then you are effectively remaining in non-conceptual awareness for as long as you keep moving your gaze.

 

I was walking along the trail and I was moving my eyes every 1/2 second, looking at different points on the trees, on the ground, in the bushes. Not fixating, not giving the conceptual mind enough time to grasp... I did this for about 15 minutes on my walk back to the car. I remember that towards the end of the 15 minutes, the scenery seemed much clearer and brighter. I love the trees, the trails, the flowers, the greenery, so this practice was also opening my heart quite a bit. Then I went shopping.

 

When I walked into the supermarket, all of a sudden the whole scene seemed like a dream. It is like I receded into this vast open space and the normal surroundings ( the grocery aisles, the produce etc) were appearing like I was looking at a dream from 50 feet away through a large tunnel. I thought that I was going crazy or had become mentally unglued.. I fought with myself for a while to get back into reality and the dream-like-haze went away after a few minutes. I had shopping to do, and then-and-there was not a good time to have some kind of mental haze attack or bout of conscious sleep walking.. It actually scared me quite a bit.

 

Well, now I realize that by walking in the woods, not fixating on anything, changing my gaze every 1/2 second, I had succeeded in precipitating a state of rigpa/awareness which must be what manifested about 10 minutes later as I entered the supermarket..

 

I have had more than a handful of such experiences. I've always thought that they were some kind of halucination or mental state of conscious sleep.. I've never given them much attention.. Now I'm thinking that they are more significant than I originally thought. The story about the scientist has made me re-evaluate my experiences.

 

Perhaps this is the realization of emptiness? That life is really just a dream?

 

TI

Edited January 23, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[RongzomFan]

I think the attempt to bring science and Buddhism together is an attempt at skillful means to try to connect the Dharma to the Western mindset. If you look at the history of Buddhism they had to present the Dharma within the context of the understanding of the culture of that time it appeared, so in India it incorporated a lot of existing Hindu ideas in order that it could be understood and assimilated by the mind of that culture, the same in Tibet where the Dharma was presented in a way not in conflict with the already existing Bon religion.

 

There was no existing Bon religion. Bon is a late 14th century invention.

[Cheshire Cat]

I think that this story is mostly fictional delusion...

We always tend to find the "extraordinary" in ourselves because we want to be special: this is especially true in tibetan buddhism with all the theories on tulkus, karmic connection and profetic dreams. Vajrayana was intended for tough people with solid spiritual roots...

[BaguaKicksAss]

Sorry this is very long but I think it is worth it

 

In the year 2000 the scientist Paul Ekman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ekman attended the Mind and Life conference with the Dalai Lama, Ekman is considered the world expert on facial expressions and a very highly respected scientist, but there was controversy as he was an extreme skeptic and saw no value in religion or Buddhism at all. Alan Wallace was very reluctant to even invite him in the first place because of the level of his skepticism and he was known to all his colleagues to have an extreme temper so was worried he would be disruptive influence, but Ekman decided to attend as his daughter Eve wanted a chance to meet the Dalai Lama.

 

On the third day of the conference, as the scientists and observers left the cramped conference hall for a tea break, Ekman saw his chance.. Instead of joining his colleagues, Ekman steered his nervous daughter forward to the Dalai Lama, who alone among the eighty-some people in the conference, seemed not to need any breaks. ...Father and daughter sat down in the armchairs on either side of the Tibetan.

 

"This is my daughter", Ekman said to the Dalai Lama. "And she is my spiritual leader. She is the reason I came to this meeting and i'm very grateful for that. Ekman explained that Eve had spent some time living in a Tibetan refugee camp in Nepal when she was fifteen years old, and that because of that experience she was very concerned about the welfare of exiled Tibetans. He said she wanted to ask him a personal question. The Dalai Lama beamed at Eve. He reached over and held Ekman's hand while he waited.

 

" I want to know why we get angriest at those we are in love with" Eve said.

 

The Dalai Lama pondered the question for a moment then told her that we tend to expect too much from the people who are close to us. We develop unrealistic expectations and project nonexistent qualities onto them. He told her a more pragmatic approach is simply to accept their flaws. This would lessen potential disappointment and reduce anger

 

For the duration of this short exchange, the Dalai Lama inexplicably held on to Ekman's hand

 

"I never said another word after introducing Eve, but I had two unusual experiences", Ekman shared some years later with the Dalai Lama. "One was that during the entire ten minutes I was filled with physical warmth. It was not a metaphor ; it was real warmth. I had a very strong physical sensation for which I do not have an English word - it comes closest to warmth but there was no heat. It felt very, very good, very embracing. You were only holding my hand. It was like nothing I had ever felt before or after"

 

"The other unusual experience I had was almost a hallucination" Ekman continued "We were in the conference room and there were other people waiting for their chance to talk to you. I had this visual impression that Eve and I and you were encapsulated. Looking out into the room was like looking at the world through the wrong end of binoculars. Although people were quite close, maybe four feet away, it appeared to me as if they were hundreds of feet away"

 

"Sometimes you actually experience that kind of vision - distant vision" the Dalai Lama replied

"As a scientist, I do not know how to explain it. But that does not mean it is not susceptible to scientific explanation. I just do not know where to start."

 

After this event the irritation and boredom that Ekman had been experiencing at having to attend the conference was gone. At the end of the conference the Dalai Lama said "Is this going to be just for nice conversation or is anything going to happen?" challenging the scientists to turn their words into actual work into how meditation etc affects the mind. Ekman said he felt that the Dalai Lama was talking to him and asking him to take up the challenge and to many people's surprise Ekman the most skeptical and resistant scientist of them all decided to begin a pilot study.

 

That change of attitude was not the only impact of that moment though, intense bouts of anger had been a regular feature of Ekman's life up to that point, he was regularly beaten by his father when growing up and was well know to have an extreme violent temper as a consequence, but when he went to meet his wife after the conference she said she barely recognised him, that he was so mellow that he was not the man she married and didn't have one moment of anger their whole remaining time in India. He had experienced a lifetime of struggle with anger up to that point including seeing psychologists at times but none of it helped, but that moment was a turning point.

 

Years later after the incident Ekman said "I do get angry still. But not very often. Much less often than in the previous seven decades. I still have to work on it a little. But before Dharamsala, in a typical year, i'd had a hundred angry episodes that I regretted. Now I may have five or six"

 

The transformation was so great that he sought out the Dalai Lama at every opportunity to try to get an explanation, he finally got the Dalai Lama to say a few words on what happened:

 

"Something mysterious happened. Okay. Is is good. But these things are not connected to science. Scientists would not have much to say about these strange things. They are my business. They are not for you scientists"

 

All quotes from chap 4 of the book "The Wisdom of Compassion Stories of Remarkable Encounters and Timeless Insights" - Victor Chan and the Dalai Lama

 

When someone is strongly connection to divine forces, those around them tend to be affected by this. With your average cultivator, the folks around them feel a bit or a lot better. Someone who's at the Dalai Lama level, well it's a lot stronger . The Dalai Lama's main Buddha is the one of compassion, and there is no doubt about the connection.

 

That's how I perceive all this anyways, from my own personal experiences teachings.

 

I look forward to seeing what his affect on an entire stadium is in October .