Taoist Lineages

[Taomeow]

Who relies on tongue-in-cheek entries to determine what the poster is saying seriously?

 

I have lineage taoist sources for information on taoist lineages. I don't even rely on "researchers," "scholars," "experts," whether accredited or self-proclaimed. Only on initiated and practicing taoists themselves. I am one of them. Ultimately I rely on me.

[YMWong]

 

So, do you want to set Wikipedia straight then? I copied the list from their page.

I C

 

 

YM

Edited January 29, 2013 by YMWong

[JustARandomPanda]

Please take the talk about "seeing one's original nature' to another thread respectfully. Any more discussion about 'original nature' and I'll cut and move to a new thread. TM may decide to do that anyway...and I'd back her up.

[Taomeow]

I C

 

 

YM

 

However, this one, even though it was copied by a Wiki author, did not originate there. I've seen (and posted, in another thread on this very forum) the same list earlier -- from a Chinese Quanzhen site that maintains an English translation. So, unless someone taking it to Wiki contaminated it by the act, stet.

[宁]

TM, the seven sects you mention are SCHOOLS/SECTS 派 and not lineages. In the Chinese tradition a lineage is a particular line of transmission of a certain school/sect, but when the school gets a new name as in the cases you mention we are talking about a new sect and NOT a lineage of the original sect (Quanzhen in this case). To be more precise, adherents of a LINEAGE of a school all use the same lineal poem and therefore are named with the same character at a specific point in the line. When a new sect is created, as in the case of the seven you mention, a new poem is generated and its adherents will be given a new set of lineal names. YM

 

I see lineages as families of craftsmen that keep in touch over generations whether they still live or not. It's a nice way to preserve and develop a craft and a tradition.

Why do the schools 'get new names'? Do they need to be in tune with the times?

Interesting info, thanks.

Edited January 29, 2013 by 宁

[YMWong]

 

I see lineages as families of craftsmen that keep in touch over generations whether they still live or not. It's a nice way to preserve and develop a craft and a tradition.

Why do the schools 'get new names'? Do they need to be in tune with the times?

Interesting info, thanks.

As in the case of the Seven Disciples, a new sect is created when a master makes up a new set of standards and regulations different from those he received (often mixing teachings of different masters or through direct intervention of some immortals) and generates a completely new school. That school takes up a new name which is strictly linked to the new Founder who also generates a new lineal poem that will be used for the next generations.

 

This will be obvious for any pratictioner initiated into a certain school as in deep meditation he might reconnect with the "golden chain" to the Founder of the SPECIFIC school.

 

A school then can have many lineages i.e. many lines of transmission derived from the same Founder

 

YM

Edited January 29, 2013 by YMWong

[宁]

 

This will be obvious for any pratictioner initiated into a certain school as in deep meditation he might reconnect with the "golden chain" to the Founder of the SPECIFIC school.

 

 

YM

 

IMO beats the hell out of searching for info on daoist lineages on the Wiki

[YMWong]

IMO beats the hell out of searching for info on daoist lineages on the Wiki

 

Well, to each their own

 

YM

[Taomeow]

Almighty lineage of Lilliputs of Belittlement! Nothing can stop your masters from spreading their glorious teachings. Here's how it works:

 

you read some books, but are neither an initiate of any school, sect, lineage, practice, nor of any interest to any deities or immortals or teachers;

yet you feel you need to establish your superior credentials, so you wait till someone who is a practitioner gets online;

and then you bust them!!! Let's say they looked something up that they don't remember by heart. That's final verdict testifying to your superiority!!! Of course you yourself never go online for anything, because when you want to post something you didn't learn by heart, gods and immortals scurry to fetch the information for you, pushing and shoving, competing for your favor.

 

I think we have a celebrated grandmaster of the lineage and a few devout disciples right here. What a great honor.

[zerostao]

Who relies on tongue-in-cheek entries to determine what the poster is saying seriously?

 

I have lineage taoist sources for information on taoist lineages. I don't even rely on "researchers," "scholars," "experts," whether accredited or self-proclaimed. Only on initiated and practicing taoists themselves. I am one of them. Ultimately I rely on me.

Only on initiated and practicing taoists themselves

and playful Taoists too, right?!

[Taomeow]

Right. Playful is a sign that something went right. Not to be confused with passive-aggressive smirking and snickering, which is a sign that something went massively wrong. In fact, I'm yet to meet a passive-aggressive, condescending, conceited, pompous, etc., taoist master. I've met playful, weird, irreverent, passionate, quiet... all different kinds, but they all had something in common. None suffered from an inferiority complex covered up by a superiority stance. Some were humble and some were arrogant. But the humble ones did not assume the "humbler than thou" pose, and the arrogant ones used their arrogance to help you rather than hurt you -- a high level skill, not to be attempted by dabblers under any circumstances. (It was demonstrated to me, e.g., by a very accomplished taoist master in China who is a TCM practitioner of the "national treasure" caliber. He treated me with some acupuncture, and he chose to throw the needles at me from across the room, like they do in all those cheesy dim mak movie scenes. He threw needles at my hands, head, and forehead. I was terrified more than I was impressed. I asked his English-speaking student why the doctor used this technique on me, what the medical reasons may have been. "No medical reasons -- he just likes to show off," was the response. "He could easily do it the ordinary way, but he's proud of his skill.")

[Clarity]

Taomeow, you are throwing fuel on the fire with this last statement.

 

If you have a problem with deci and her statement about lineages, I would suggest you take it up with her via PM or drop it.

 

Your stance is untenable, it will not hold.

 

Can we please stop with the name calling and the passive-aggresive behavior which you are now displaying?

 

This thread is now seriously off topic anyway.

[Stigweard]

Anyone for tea? My dad was a tremendous tea-maker, and so was his dad, so I have a fabulous lineage

 

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Would you care to share with me your methods? NOT that i have any tea-making materials available to me off hand, i could always buy them with foodstamps, i suppose...

Edited January 30, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Stigweard]

Would you care to share with me your methods? NOT that i have any tea-making materials available to me off hand, i could always buy them with foodstamps, i suppose...

Yes I am more than happy to share ... but you must first demonstrate you know the secret of the three-tea breathing method and be able to hold the temperature of a flame steady using only your mind-intent. Then, and only then, shall you be permitted to enter the inner-gate of the Xian Piaosan (the immortal waft) Lineage.

 

[exorcist_1699]

Keen viewers of this topic should already sense that the Pre-Celestial School , its way is somehow close to the Zen Buddhist ; both ways are suitable only for a few gifted followers of Taoism and Buddhism , not ordinary people. Masters in Taoist history who belong to this heritage are icons such as :

陳致虛, 白紫清, 黃元吉

Deci seems sense such a relation , but I don't know why he/she expressed it in that way...

After talking about their similarity, of course, we have to point out their difference : that after having attained that great Mind, the Taoist will 'turn around' in search of the pre-Celestial qi while the Zen Buddhists still continue on their spiritual path...

Edited January 30, 2013 by exorcist_1699

[YMWong]

Keen viewers of this topic should already sense that the Pre-Celestial School , its way is somehow close to the Zen Buddhist ; both ways are suitable only for a few gifted followers of Taoism and Buddhism , not ordinary people. Masters in Taoist history who belong to this heritage are icons such as :

 

陳致虛, 白紫清, 黃元吉

Exorcist, as I am sure you know there is more than one "Pre-Celestial School" in Chinese history.

 

The most common, especially in the west, is a derivation of Longmen School made popular by an early English translation of a book （Charles Luk - Taoist Yoga) originally by Master Liao Kong (Qianfeng). If I am not mistaken this is also the one connected with Eva Wong's teacher Master Moy, thou they have a reformed version from Hong Kong.

 

The one you mention by masters of the likes of Huang Yuanji 黃元吉 is a different school with a separate origin and is commonly referred to as Central School 中派

 

Best

 

YM

Edited January 30, 2013 by YMWong

[exorcist_1699]

Exorcist, as I am sure you know there is more than one "Pre-Celestial School" in Chinese history. The most common, ...on by masters of the likes of Huang Yuanji 黃元吉 is a different school with a separate origin and is commonly referred to as Central School 中派 Best YM

 

Yes, I agree.

[宁]

Exorcist, as I am sure you know there is more than one "Pre-Celestial School" in Chinese history.

 

The most common, especially in the west, is a derivation of Longmen School made popular by an early English translation of a book （Charles Luk - Taoist Yoga) originally by Master Liao Kong (Qianfeng). If I am not mistaken this is also the one connected with Eva Wong's teacher Master Moy, thou they have a reformed version from Hong Kong.

 

The one you mention by masters of the likes of Huang Yuanji 黃元吉 is a different school with a separate origin and is commonly referred to as Central School 中派

 

Best

 

YM

YM,

 

are there any resources (public info) about the various CONTEMPORARY lineages and schools of Daoism (at least the ones that are not 'hiding'), available anywhere? Chinese or English texts, it'll do either way.

I'm sure most of the most authentic schools are not public, they are 'held' and preserved by people nobody knows much about, but, eh, if I were China's new president I would make a new law hihi, evey daoist monk or lay practitioner should have a FB account (or at least Weibo, FB is a no-no here, duh), and rigurously post a practice journal.

[YMWong]

YM,

 

are there any resources (public info) about the various CONTEMPORARY lineages and schools of Daoism (at least the ones that are not 'hiding'), available anywhere? Chinese or English texts, it'll do either way.

I'm sure most of the most authentic schools are not public, they are 'held' and preserved by people nobody knows much about, but, eh, if I were China's new president I would make a new law hihi, evey daoist monk or lay practitioner should have a FB account (or at least Weibo, FB is a no-no here, duh), and rigurously post a practice journal.

 

There are commercial schools, similar to those in the west, which you can find on the web or on various magazines but in most cases they are of poor quality and more about transmitting "techniques" instead of passing an original transmission

 

One needs luck

 

YM

[宁]

One needs luck

 

I'm just fresh out of it, but who knows Thanks

[三江源]

 

Keen viewers of this topic should already sense that the Pre-Celestial School , its way is somehow close to the Zen Buddhist ; both ways are suitable only for a few gifted followers of Taoism and Buddhism , not ordinary people. Masters in Taoist history who belong to this heritage are icons such as :

陳致虛, 白紫清, 黃元吉

Deci seems sense such a relation , but I don't know why he/she expressed it in that way...

After talking about their similarity, of course, we have to point out their difference : that after having attained that great Mind, the Taoist will 'turn around' in search of the pre-Celestial qi while the Zen Buddhists still continue on their spiritual path...

Hello.. could you say more about this..please? I'm sorry to give such a vague yet bald request. Only that I am interested in what you say, which is new to me, and I dont know what questions to ask you, specifically. Any elaboration you could offer would be gratefully received.

[exorcist_1699]

Hello.. could you say more about this..please? I'm sorry to give such a vague yet bald request. Only that I am interested in what you say, which is new to me, and I dont know what questions to ask you, specifically. Any elaboration you could offer would be gratefully received.

 

 

Hi, Cat,

 

I try to elaborate more, hope that it meets what you expect to hear :

 

Generally speaking, Taoist alchemical formula proceed as follows : jing( true for both sexes) => qi=> shen ;

 

 

We do our practice to accumulate and refine our deficient jing , and after having it 100% refined to qi ,we then enter into another stage of refining our deficient qi into shen.... However, the pre-Celestial way is not so 'mechanical', when compared to the conventional way . it teaches people that they can skip the stages of accumulating jing and qi,,.and directly enter and start from the stage of nourishing their shen provided that they fulfill some conditions ...

 

 

As Zen Buddhist way doesn't talk about jing or qi in any sense, so such kind of Taoist way of making use of our mental initiative so as to skip some stages of our cultivation , is similar to Zen's emphasize on using no ways, no forms , no steps...but to grasp the Buddha Heart at one stroke straight.

Edited January 31, 2013 by exorcist_1699

[三江源]

Thanks for answering my vague request, exorcist.

 

 

the pre-Celestial way is not so 'mechanical', when compared to the conventional way . it teaches people that they can skip the stages of accumulating jing and qi,,.and directly enter and start from the stage of nourishing their shen provided that they fulfill some conditions ...

 

I am interested in this...I'd love to find out more about the schools that work this way. Certainly my own way of working skipped stages spontaneously. I came to studying alchemy largely to discover 'what just happened' very rapidly as soon as I was exposed to Qi at high levels.. so being a bit of a backwards working student, I'm happy to find what you have said.

I'm also curious to know...What are the some conditions?

[exorcist_1699]

Thanks for answering my vague request, exorcist.

 

..................................

I'm also curious to know...What are the some conditions?

 

 

 

The mentioned conditions can be due to the following situations :

1) People who meet Tao in the earlier years of their life, say when they are kids or teenagers. Because there is no or very little leakage of jing , of course, they can go straight to do their practice by adopting the Zen or Pre-Celestial way.

Why old and middle-aged guys/ladies can't get good result by adopting Zen/ pre-Celestial way ?

Due to deficiency in jing and qi, the paying-attention-to-nowhere/noforms/no-steps typed methods most likely lead the old people, in their meditation, to half-sleeping, drowsiness or a persistant dull state of mindlessness , rather than a pop-up of a great Mind; so, of course, they don't believe the effect of it , and likely would condemn it as mysticism.

.

Following Taoist conventional jing-qi-shen path is good for them, for they can feel its effect on their bodies step by step, and be persuade that Taoist practice/ alchemy is nothing mysticist .

2) Those who do a lot of good things in this lifetime and their past life, so they can bring good karma into their practice; in that case , the person may have a strange distaste of anything vulgar and trivial, disliking methods which tell him/her to visualize something or count something...etc.

3) People who are born very smart ; not in the sense of capable of solving complicated mathematical problems , but in the sense of capable of condensing their mind quicker than others, getting meanings in their practice easier..etc.