Pit Bulls, do they get a bad rap?

[Vmarco]

 

 

Would pits be anywhere near as vicious if they werent trained by humans to fight?

 

Just the same as the black gang bangers huh???????????(question mark)

 

To unbreed a pit bull or other breeds to no longer be unpredictable territorial animals,..would eliminate the breeds.

 

A Vicious Breed is called a Vicious Breed because it was bred over many years to be vicious, fight, attack, terrorize, kill, etc. Who is really so naive to believe that loving a Pit Bull, a wolf, a tiger, or an inland taipan translates into that creature not attacking you?

 

It is the bred nature of Pit Bulls unpredictable territorial animals,...that is way, as mentioned above, with link, that loving Pit Bull owners are killed regularly.

[Vmarco]

Those who think banning the 'other' side will bring peace and prosperity are usually sorely disappointed. Its happened through out history whether its outlawing another religion, all religion, the educated, the elites, the rich, the liberals, the conservatives ect. it usually goes up in flames as extremist elements fill the gap left by the elimination. Assuming the other side is the cause of all the problems is way too simplistic.

 

Sadly We are the problem.

 

Yes,...IMO that is quite correct. Dissolving people will not necessarily bring peace,...however, an intolerance of all beliefs that step between people and their direct experience would indeed be a path to peace. Conservatism is certainly an abominable belief that disallows peace. The abominations need to be recognized and removed, not the people.

 

"we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself" Eckhart Tolle

[thelerner]

an intolerance of all beliefs that step between people and their direct experience would indeed be a path to peace. Conservatism is certainly an abominable belief ..

 

Still seems off to me. Greater intolerance = more peace, Nope. All conservatism = abominable belief, No.

 

Its so extreme <Sith like:) ) it becomes literally the opposite of what you strive for. You become the elements of conservatism you're against. You become intolerant of so many beliefs that you're amazed people are so intolerant of your own and want them banned.

 

Tolerance <within limits>, balance and understanding.

Edited January 26, 2013 by thelerner

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

To unbreed a pit bull or other breeds to no longer be unpredictable territorial animals,..would eliminate the breeds.

 

A Vicious Breed is called a Vicious Breed because it was bred over many years to be vicious, fight, attack, terrorize, kill, etc. Who is really so naive to believe that loving a Pit Bull, a wolf, a tiger, or an inland taipan translates into that creature not attacking you?

 

It is the bred nature of Pit Bulls unpredictable territorial animals,...that is way, as mentioned above, with link, that loving Pit Bull owners are killed regularly.

 

If you love your animal, no matter how vicious that animal is, love is universal communication; they will love you back and protect you with their LIVES.

You seem to neglect to "allow" the so called "vicious breeds" their own heart chakras!

 

 

 

[Vmarco]

Still seems off to me. Greater intolerance = more peace, Nope. All conservatism = abominable belief, No.

 

Its so extreme <Sith like:) ) it becomes literally the opposite of what you strive for. You become the elements of conservatism you're against. You become intolerant of so many beliefs that you're amazed people are so intolerant of your own and want them banned.

 

Tolerance <within limits>, balance and understanding.

 

No,...you're looking at that out-of-context. Intolerance of beliefs that step between sentient beings and their direct experience = more peace.

 

I'm intolerant of not just "many beliefs" but all beliefs. Belief is a barrier to truth. No belief is true.

 

Intolerance is not necessarily punitive. It's not a totalitarian thing,...for totalitarianism would be intolerable within a humanity that was intolerant of beliefs.

[Vmarco]

 

If you love your animal, no matter how vicious that animal is, love is universal communication; they will love you back and protect you with their LIVES.

You seem to neglect to "allow" the so called "vicious breeds" their own heart chakras!

 

 

 

 

That has been proven wrong, MILLIONS of times. No matter how much you "love" your animal,...no matter how great a trainer you are,...your dog is a threat to the security, wellbeing, consideration of others,...even if that animal is kept in a completely enclosed cage, 24/7.

 

I'd suggest you more closely examine posts #14 and #15

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Love is not a feeling, it is an action. In other words, millions of times it has been proven that people have been attacked by animals, but never could it be proven weather or not they treated the animal with genuine love and care.


The heart is universally shared... if you cannot put yourself in the position of the pit bull, then you do not hold that capacity of love which is a communication and not just a feeling.



I've been bit by a pitbull. She never meant harm to humans. she was trained to attack every dog she could see, hear, or smell.
I tried to pull her away from another dog. I tried to loosen her jaws.

The other dog owner blatantly kicked her.



That was not HER fault... And I sure hope you wouldn't kick a poorly trained pit any more than you would shoot a starving child robbing a grocer.




I do imagine, knowing myself... and based on your posts about pits...



Had I shared your opinion, I imagine I would have killed Gypsie that moment by shoving my fingers into her eye sockets and scrambling her brains.



But I communicate with my heart, not my brain.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[thelerner]

I'm intolerant of not just "many beliefs" but all beliefs. Belief is a barrier to truth. No belief is true.

 

If thats what you believe who am I to argue?

[Protector]

What's truly important is that I'm right

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

not unless I SAY you're right.



Okay, you're right.

[AsheSkyler]

I've met three pits.

One was a stray that came up the house. He was a massive brute and his back came halfway up my thigh. The danger about him was if he wagged his tail or stepped on you. That tail was a good inch or two thick and those claws with that weight would feel like it was going through your foot. He had a very gentle nature. The cat scratched him on the nose once, and his reaction was to jump back, wince, and then pretend to be asleep every time the cat walked by. I would have kept him if he hadn't required so much food.

The other two were the pets of the woman who made my wedding cake. They were all smiles and wagging butts (no tails). Admittedly, a "smiling" dog of any breed can be a little alarming until you notice those teeth aren't accompanied by a growl. One was bow-legged, but they were still very friendly animals.

 

So from personal experience, I would say they get a bad rap. From hearsay... I'm not sure. The news only shows pitbull attacks, or they did when I watched the news, and you have to dig to hear stories like the pits that defended adults and kids from muggers, wild cats, and other dogs.

 

 

The largest dogs I ever had a real aggression problem with one neighbors' pack of retriever-mix pups, and another neighbor's Australian shepherd. Quite a contrast to our own Australian shepherd. She was, quite honestly, a bitch.

All the other dogs that have given me trouble have been terriers and lapdogs.

[gatito]

An interesting, informative, joyful and poignant read about the relationsip between two being who same the same Consciousness:-

 

The Philosopher and the Wolf: Lessons from the Wild on Love, Death and Happiness. Author, Mark Rowlands

 

Review:-

 

http://www.literaryreview.co.uk/gray_12_08.html

[gatito]

[gatito]

[Vmarco]

What is consistantly missing, especially from Pit Bull and vicious breed apologists, is that no matter how much they believe they love their dog, that animal is a very real threat to others.

 

Let me repeat from posts #14 and #15,....of the 4.7 million people in the US that were attacked by dogs in 2011, up to 53% were by Pit Bulls. That over 2 million in the USA alone.

 

It is a fact, that not only do Pit Bulls of good ownership attack, injure, terrorize,...but also kill,...even the best of owners.

 

There is only one conclusion from posts #14 and #15,...considerate people would not own a Pit Bull or vicious breed.

 

"All the joy the world contains
Has come through wishing happiness for others.
All the misery the world contains
Has come through wanting pleasure for oneself."

Shantideva

What would World Peace look like? A society of fear-based individualists who need Pit Bulls and attack dogs for their protection?

[Thunder_Gooch]

I don't think you'd last long there chief. A good chance one of the 'dumb' ones <castrated?> or even 'smart' ones would do you in. Dictators tend to go down hard.

 

I wouldn't even attempt to be the the ruler of a utopia unless I was beyond the level of a level 72 mo pai master. I am not even really interested in controlling other people, I just want to see humanity evolve into something more.

Edited January 27, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[gatito]

What is consistantly missing, especially from Pit Bull and vicious breed apologists, is that no matter how much they believe they love their dog, that animal is a very real threat to others.

 

Let me repeat from posts #14 and #15,....of the 4.7 million people in the US that were attacked by dogs in 2011, up to 53% were by Pit Bulls. That over 2 million in the USA alone.

 

It is a fact, that not only do Pit Bulls of good ownership attack, injure, terrorize,...but also kill,...even the best of owners.

 

There is only one conclusion from posts #14 and #15,...considerate people would not own a Pit Bull or vicious breed.

 

"All the joy the world contains

Has come through wishing happiness for others.

All the misery the world contains

Has come through wanting pleasure for oneself."

Shantideva

What would World Peace look like? A society of fear-based individualists who need Pit Bulls and attack dogs for their protection?

 

Pitbulls were bred specifically to kill other dogs for the entertainment of humans.

 

This is categorically wrong and the breed should be banned and allowed to die-out naturally in a single generation.

 

Hope that's clear?

[thelerner]

I wouldn't even attempt to be the the ruler of a utopia unless I was beyond the level of a level 72 mo pai master.

Hmnn, fine you'll have my vote once you reach level 70. Also what is the future dictators views on the pit bull issue infield fly rule. I need to prepare just in case .

[Thunder_Gooch]

Hmnn, fine you'll have my vote once you reach level 70. Also what is the future dictators views on the pit bull issue infield fly rule. I need to prepare just in case .

 

I'd outlaw pitbulls and baseball. lol

[Mokona]

I saw above that love is not a feeling, it is an action. Every emotion I have experienced can be expressed through action, but it's always started as a feeling, even if no action was being performed.*

 

As a side product, has anyone seen or performed chi kung healng on an animal? I've seen a few posts from Lomax and his students. Just i've heard that chi kung healing can work on the emotional as well as the physical - so has anyone given a shot at rehabilitating an animal with this? Curious is all.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

every feeling has an associated action that can be attributed as being the communication of that feeling... likewise, every action can be rooted to a feeling that might be the cause of inspiration leading to the consideration of initiating this activity.



The words were not meant to divorce this relationship of the objective world, but to highlight the underlying consciousness that the objective world tends to inspire a divorce from within the mind.

[i am]

I find myself strangely unable to disagree with Vmarco in this instance...

 

Every dog is different. But what any dog owner MUST understand, is that each dog was BRED for a specific purpose. They have certain iherant traits, ways they will react to certain situations. IF you choose to own a dog breed that was BRED, over hundreds or thousands of years, to ATTACK, you have to be very careful with how you train it, and how you assert dominance.

 

There are probably tons of pit bulls out there that would never hurt a flea. But the fact is they were bred for fighting and attacking.

 

An example is this. The way it was explained to me, with herding dogs, sheep dogs were bred to snarl, bark, snap, but never bite, and especially not GRIP the animal. A border collie that does that is given away. No good for sheep. Cattle dogs, on the other hand, were often bred with bigger, stronger jaws, and allowed to grip, because cattle can take more abuse, and sometimes need it to get the point across.

 

The difference between an animal which has, over countless years, had certain traits bred into it or out of it, is VERY MUCH important for anyone owning that dog to know. My dog shows his fangs to dogs that bother him. He even snaps at them. But he has never once actually made contact with his teeth. When he snarls at a dog, and they don't like it and attack him, he runs away or rolls over.

 

He does things, like herding, that I did not teach him. When I pick up a ball, he sees it, and he runs out 20 yards away in a big arc and lays down flat, 20 yards away, directly in front of me, waiting...I never taught him that. That's breeding. Never seen a non-herding dog do that.

 

My friend who had a bull dog, would play rough. And I caught it, multiple times, pinning my dog on the ground, jaws completely around his throat, just holding him there. I had to break it up. That's what they're bred for. This was a pretty nice do who probably wouldn't have done any real harm to my dog. But this was its tendency.

 

If you have a breed like a bull dog/pit bull, you have to be the dominant member of the pack. Or they will be. This happens with any dog, but the consequences are different with different breeds. You MUST be the alpha if you have an "aggressive" breed, but you must be gently dominant. No hitting, no beating. Respect. But if they do something that really crosses a line, the most brutal (and effective) thing I've ever learned for correcting a dog in those circumstances where they've done something that they absolutely MUST know they cannot do, is to grab them by the shoulder and rump hair on one side, and take them down. Firmly, but don't slam them. You hold them there with hands and forearms until they stop struggling and give in to your dominance. And they'll love you more for it.

 

If you don't have that much dominance in you, you have no business owning a dog.

 

Another thing on breeds...my border collie does not require that kind of dominance. It would scar him for life. If I look at him like I'm dissapointed, that's plenty. Most labs and retreivers don't even know you're yelling at them. Not all that sensitive.

 

Now, as I said, each dog is different. Some need more firm corrections that others. Some are just bad...Yes, it's usually a bad owner, but like anything, some just can't live in this society. But if you aren't willing to do what it takes to make sure you're dog is never violent toward anyone, you shouldn't own one. Someday your luck may run out and you'll get one that needs it. Suddenly you and your dog are a danger to society.

 

There are always exceptions.

 

Each dog is different.

 

But to dismiss breed, to compare breed to skin color in humans???? No. I'm sorry, but NO. Completely improper analogy.

Edited January 31, 2013 by i am

[Protector]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-4-worst-famous-relatives-people-managed-to-live-down/

 

ooh, I found a better analogy

[i am]

Oh, and I don't agree that no one should own pitbulls. I just don't agree that you should rule out breed when wondering what to expect from a dog.

 

People are people. Dogs are what they are because of the selective breeding by people. They are bred for certain traits.