Looking for Proof of advanced taoist master's abilities

[lino]

There's another reality we can tap into that's unaffected by our emotions, by our everyday world.

 

I believe this on account of the work done by William James and Boris Sidis, and the results of William James Sidis. The deaths of Boris Sidis and William James Sidis, both cerebral hemorrhages, convinced me that chi kung and yoga are a reality and that the downward flow of chi to the dantien are essential and life-preserving.

[DentyDao]

We need more studies like this:

 

( Original article --

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html )

 

Meditation changes temperatures:

Mind controls body in extreme experiments

By William J. Cromie

Gazette Staff

 

In a monastery in northern India, thinly clad Tibetan monks sat quietly in a room where the temperature was a chilly 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Using a yoga technique known as g Tum-mo, they entered a state of deep meditation. Other monks soaked 3-by-6-foot sheets in cold water (49 degrees) and placed them over the meditators' shoulders. For untrained people, such frigid wrappings would produce uncontrolled shivering.

 

 

Thanks for posting this. I've been raving about Herbert Benson for years.

[tsa]

I would also like to add about what's so great about this article is that the science does not take anything away from the amazing level these monks have developed their mind/body control, but seeks to share it with the rest of the world, hopefully for everybody's benefit. Wonder and awe are what makes living worth while, just as long as it does not make us blind.

[DentyDao]

Edited January 25, 2007 by seandenty

[tsa]

Thanks for the post. This Bill Bodri person is exactly the type of person that can help us. If anybody knows somebody that can demonstrate these supernatural abilities, then it's this guy.

 

Says it right on his website as a discription of one of his books:

 

http://www.meditationexpert.com/Skeleton.htm

 

"The problem with most meditation practices is that they don't help you calm your mind. With the white skeleton visualization method, you are forced to train your mind to reach one-pointed concentration, and at the same time you are also cultivating your body's chi channels and jing-chi-shen complex. That's why this method commonly gives rise to superpowers while transforming your physical body for the spiritual path."

 

I'll send an email.

[DentyDao]

I'll send an email.

 

[Smile]

Yes, White Skeleton meditation is what Bill advocates and it's very good. It puts both non-doing and doing together without too much control over the whole process. It also teaches you one-pointed concentration to the point you can soon go straight to the empty mind part without going through the whole rutine.

 

Btw, it's one of Bill's skillful means when he talks about super-powers. By the time you get to that stage, you won't care much about such things.

[DentyDao]

Tsa,

 

I think what your doing is great, but the reality is that when you call Bill, he's not going to fly over to your house and start lighting shit on fire just so you can be satisfied that it's genuine. He's going to tell you to get to work on your practice and start your own experiment. He wants you to get the point of the whole process which is to find happiness.

 

Then you can become a real Jedi like Max

[Smile]

Then you can become a real Jedi like Max

I'd rather be sexy like you...

Wait, it didn't come our right. Get on board of the meat train... whooo-hooooo

Taobum reunion in NYC

Plato and his friend Bilow

That's me. Hello, ladies!!!!

Edited January 26, 2007 by Smile

[DentyDao]

I'd rather be sexy like you...

Wait, it didn't come our right. Get on board of the meat train... whooo-hooooo

That's me. Hello, ladies!!!!

 

OMG, you are a Jedi. You have definity mastered immortal butt clenching; a very high level skill.

 

Tsa, I think this is the proof your looking for. Game over.

 

S

[tsa]

Yes, White Skeleton meditation is what Bill advocates and it's very good. It puts both non-doing and doing together without too much control over the whole process. It also teaches you one-pointed concentration to the point you can soon go straight to the empty mind part without going through the whole rutine.

 

Btw, it's one of Bill's skillful means when he talks about super-powers. By the time you get to that stage, you won't care much about such things.

What superpowers does he say can be done, and does he say he knows people who can do them?

[Pero]

What superpowers does he say can be done, and does he say he knows people who can do them?

 

I think he would probably say to you something like: "Try it for yourself and you`ll see."

[tsa]

I think he would probably say to you something like: "Try it for yourself and you`ll see."

I can imagine he would, but that would be a cop out.

[thaddeus]

I can imagine he would, but that would be a cop out.

Alot of these 'teachers' are very charismatic..as such they don't often censor themselves when they start yapping away. You can't take every sentence and hold them to the flame. There are no 'super powers' because humans have been around for thousands of years and the fact that we have to still talk about whether anyone has actually witnessed a super power speaks for itself. There would have been countless natural abbertions over the tens of thousands of years where people would have had these abilities with no training. Sort of like child prodigies. Just because we can't figure something out doesn't mean it's supernatural either, it just means we don't know what happened.

 

With that said, however, what do you think of this thought experiment?

 

In reality, you and I really don't exist. Between our particles there is far more empty space and these particles are influenced greatly by mere observation. We can all accept that the reality we are experiencing is produced in our brains or better in our consciousness. So the same can be true within a lucid dream, the 'you' and the 'I' really only exist as thought forms. What really is the difference between the lucid dream and a waking experience? Not much because it's 'you' creating both..still with me? Now, all of us who have had lucid dreams know that we all have super powers in those experiences. So, again, what stops us from walking through a wall in our waking experience, if it is merely a construct of the mind and if, like dust particles, it really isn't there at all except because we expect it to be there??

<insert twilight zone music>

T

[thelerner]

I've never bought into the' You and I don't really exist, we're just 99,9% empty space and thought form'. I think its a mistake to apply quantum level physics into the billions(?trillions) of times size we are. At different sizes things act way differently, comparisons become nonsensical. I can do the tricks in 'What the Bleep Do We Know'. Its called stop action camera work. Very simple.

 

When you stop thinking you don't disappear, not when you sleep, not when you're dead. The falling tree does make a sound whether we're there or not. Basic physics and remotes cameras have proven it.

 

For all the space between our molecules you can't put your hand through the computer monitor. Wearing a superman suit does not give the user the ability to fly, nor does the LSD trip or deep hypnosis.

 

Maybe the world can be a little Matrix like, but even there, most rules can only be bent. (Unless you're the One of course )

 

Michael

[thaddeus]

When you stop thinking you don't disappear, not when you sleep, not when you're dead. The falling tree does make a sound whether we're there or not. Basic physics and remotes cameras have proven it.

Michael

When we dream, we invent a past with alot of detail. In fact, we are absolutely certain of the reality of whatever situation we're in. I'm not so sure we don't 'disappear'. Think of your body right now..where was it 5 minutes ago? Maybe you just dreamed it back.

I'm not so sure Einstein would necessarily say we can't put our hands through something..

T

[tsa]

[thaddeus]

I've always said that if one is at the point of producing super powers, they can manifest all they need without selling stuff on the internet. It's ironic that someone can manifest a ghost, or do tricks, yet can't manifest a house to live in and lunch money.

my humble two cents,

T

[tsa]

When we dream, we invent a past with alot of detail. In fact, we are absolutely certain of the reality of whatever situation we're in. I'm not so sure we don't 'disappear'. Think of your body right now..where was it 5 minutes ago? Maybe you just dreamed it back.

I'm not so sure Einstein would necessarily say we can't put our hands through something..

T

Quantum mechanics seems to be the reason for just about anyting to happen. Even if the day comes where we can put our hands though tables, then everybody will be able to do it, and it will have nothing to do with any super abilities.

[TwoTrees]

First, I want to make clear that I do not let emotional envolvement cut me off from reasoning when it comes to subjects such as this. I like to remain receptive as an active listener and stay open to ideas that differ from any that I may have. There are some great points here on each side of the spectrum and I'm pleased to see that it has continued as constructive with very minimal flaming.

 

Always in the world there have been individuals who have disappeared unnoticed, who were determined to reconstruct their human bodies and to find their way to the realm of permanence, from which they departed to come into this world of mankind. Each such one knew that the weight of the world's thought would hinder the work.

By the "world's thought" is meant the mass of people, who ridicule or distrust any innovation for improvement until the method advocated is proven to be true.

 

I agree with you somewhat about critical thinking, yet I feel at times it gets in the way of open understanding with certain things of the world. In a sense it creates a barrier in the form of attachment, to one's own thinking and desires. With understanding, you are perceiving and feeling what things are of themselves, what their relations are, and comprehending why they are so and are so related. Critical thinking consist of asking the questions that effort to reach your own personal decisions about the worth of what you are experiencing and learning. With this in mind, the large part of the population leans toward weak-sense critical thinking, in which the aim is to reject or annihilate opinions/reasoning/understanding that differs from that of your own. They seek triumph and think themselves superior over all who disagree, which this becomes their uppermost objective. The stronger-sense critical thinking is ideal here, where one is constantly evaluating their initial feelings and desires to blend them when presented with new ideas or experiences, understanding through reflection to protect from deception and congruence with the idealistic views of society in the "sheep-mentality" of conformity.

 

I like to think of reality in two main forms: relative reality in which the continuity of facts or things as their relation to each other, in the state and on the plane on which they are observed.

Ultimate reality as consciousness, changeless and absolute; the presence of it through each and every unit and intelligence throughout time and space in the eternal, during the entirety of the continuity of its constant progress through ever higher degrees in being conscious until it is one with and as consciousness.

The problem with blending assemblages is that the conscious light becomes fogged and obscured by thoughts when feeling and desire try to think, so the human being sees things as it wants to see them, or in a modified degree of what is real or what is truth.

 

Super-powers are relative to each individual as a perception of things that differ with the appreciation in such things of the universe. What may be incredible or greater in scope from what is natural to one being is different from what another perceives as superior to human aptitude.

 

Here is a shining example to ponder which most find as common knowledge, but never take into consideration how amazing the creation of the human body is. It is organized from the very simple microscopic atom to the complex human organism consisting of eleven organ systems, with trillions of microscopic parts all working to the common goal of human function on a daily basis for many decades. And what about the hundreds of homeostatic mechanisms whose purpose are to regulate the internal conditions of your body when external conditions change? I'm sure that this has been contemplated in the slightest form with any who are serious about alchemical practice. There is a familiarity that cannot be described when you are connecting yourself with the processes that abound inside the body systems - things like temperature control, blood sugar balance, water balance, blood pressure regulation, and plasma/sodium levels. Loving intent and smiling energy cradle them as they are maintained, perhaps the nervous system carrying the messages that there is an overspill of understanding and intention that carry them on the way, making this connection with the being from the inside out.

 

*phew* ... I'll tackle lucid dreaming, memory, mind-body and feeling-desire after I've contemplated them some more. For now, I feel this is enough ... and I'm sure to hear from some (I have a certain few in mind who I suspect will have something to say) in regards to this, perhaps.

 

Kind regards,

Michelle THTT

[Wayfarer64]

Hi there everyone,

 

I for one think that some of these powers are available to us with training. Before I started to train in Hung-Gar I could not concentrate my strength (QI?) and punch a much larger man so that he moved away from the punch at a rapid rate of speed. Nor was I able to put myself into a horse stance that enabled me to remain rooted to the ground when a very large guy tried to lift me. He could have easily lifted my weight had he wanted I was at about 170 at that time and he could usually "clean and jerk" much more than that.

 

So there are techniques I know of that seem to be super but they are not. They are just applied physics, in that there is force concentrated from my body weight into my fist, and a pushing down of my muscle power to counter-act the lifting.

 

The combination of my weight and muscle-power defies the size differences that would seem to defy the acts of physical prowess some see as super.

 

These are very low-level examples of how we can train to seem to be super. That is some of my personal knowledge. I have seen the Grand Master I studied with do things far more amazing, and I for one assume his training has given him better concentration of energy/ weight/ INTENT etc.

 

I have seen WILL-Power alone help people do and get through incredible duress as well, not magic just human will. What of the 100lb. House wife who lifted a car off of her injured child? That was documented.

 

We are an amazing species, ants are far more amazing in their physical powers. Michael is right about the size thing on many levels. What is possible on some levels of our physical world are not at others. Even in the basic bio-sphere's diversity, the ant/human analogy shows us some of the limitations in terms of physics.

[mYTHmAKER]

My guess is that a Samadhi experience (though I have not personally experienced this) is a sort of anti-realization. There is no great other world we can tap into to do these supernatural things. There is just Here. Plain and simple. The joy comes from seeing all the greatness in the world play out in front of your eyes and see them for only what you are. That's the essence of beauty.

 

I've started this thread in earnest. I wanted to know if there is anybody out there that claims to have these supernatural powers and could put them to the test, thus clearing away the misconceptions for all to see. But, as I had guessed, there is nobody out there willing to put these powers to the test and I suspect that they do not exist. I am always open to change my mind though.

I remember a line from a book but not who wrote it.

"One mans science is another mans magic"

So a samadhi expierience is seeing things that are there which can't be seen with everyday eyes.

Yes I believe the true beauty, joy is in being present.

 

Powers or siddhis are real and a by product of intense work on ones self.

Beings with powers generally don't show them off. In order to have the power ego is lessened or gone.

However, if you hang with these beings you may observe many things which could be attributed to special powers but will never be admitted to.

 

At our level we want powers. We try to bust clouds with our chi, change the weather.

play god. When we achieve these powers with the proper understanding we will be happy to leave

everything as it is.

[tsa]

Powers or siddhis are real and a by product of intense work on ones self.

Beings with powers generally don't show them off. In order to have the power ego is lessened or gone.

However, if you hang with these beings you may observe many things which could be attributed to special powers but will never be admitted to.

This is another cop out. If these masters have a lack of ego, then why would they keep their powers a secret? What would they be afraid of? If it is "natural" then it shouldn't hurt to reveal these powers to the masses. Don't you think it's strange that there isn't one scientifically documented case of these powers considering how many people have lived?

 

Have you witnessed any of these powers? If so, please share.

[tsa]

Always in the world there have been individuals who have disappeared unnoticed, who were determined to reconstruct their human bodies and to find their way to the realm of permanence, from which they departed to come into this world of mankind. Each such one knew that the weight of the world's thought would hinder the work.

By the "world's thought" is meant the mass of people, who ridicule or distrust any innovation for improvement until the method advocated is proven to be true.

I have never heard of a scientifically documented case of somebody who is able to disapear. Do you have experiance with this? Proof? If not, then why do you believe this is possible?

 

I agree with you somewhat about critical thinking, yet I feel at times it gets in the way of open understanding with certain things of the world. In a sense it creates a barrier in the form of attachment, to one's own thinking and desires. With understanding, you are perceiving and feeling what things are of themselves, what their relations are, and comprehending why they are so and are so related. Critical thinking consist of asking the questions that effort to reach your own personal decisions about the worth of what you are experiencing and learning. With this in mind, the large part of the population leans toward weak-sense critical thinking, in which the aim is to reject or annihilate opinions/reasoning/understanding that differs from that of your own. They seek triumph and think themselves superior over all who disagree, which this becomes their uppermost objective. The stronger-sense critical thinking is ideal here, where one is constantly evaluating their initial feelings and desires to blend them when presented with new ideas or experiences, understanding through reflection to protect from deception and congruence with the idealistic views of society in the "sheep-mentality" of conformity.

I totally disagree. Critical thinking, at lest from a scientific point of view, is about removing oneself and allowing the tests and observations to speak for themselves, regardless of the scientist's beliefs (at least if done correctly). If the test is designed correctly and the effect is observed, then the scientist would have to concede that the effect is valid. This gives way to much more freedom of mind then the close mindedness of a Believer because all things remain possible until proven otherwise.

 

 

Here is a shining example to ponder which most find as common knowledge, but never take into consideration how amazing the creation of the human body is. It is organized from the very simple microscopic atom to the complex human organism consisting of eleven organ systems, with trillions of microscopic parts all working to the common goal of human function on a daily basis for many decades. And what about the hundreds of homeostatic mechanisms whose purpose are to regulate the internal conditions of your body when external conditions change? I'm sure that this has been contemplated in the slightest form with any who are serious about alchemical practice. There is a familiarity that cannot be described when you are connecting yourself with the processes that abound inside the body systems - things like temperature control, blood sugar balance, water balance, blood pressure regulation, and plasma/sodium levels. Loving intent and smiling energy cradle them as they are maintained, perhaps the nervous system carrying the messages that there is an overspill of understanding and intention that carry them on the way, making this connection with the being from the inside out.

I agree the human body is great. Millions of years of evolution under the right conditions have made it so. Every cause has an effect, which is in turn a cause of the next effect, and so forth. Through this chain of cause and effect you can go all the way back to the beginning of the universe. Though there may be many amazing things that happen in nature, they happen for a reason. If this were not the case, then the world would be so unpredictable that life would not be able to exist.

[Spectrum]

You won't find proof on the internets.

 

Spectrum

Edited January 26, 2007 by Spectrum