Looking for Proof of advanced taoist master's abilities

[tsa]

These are very low-level examples of how we can train to seem to be super. That is some of my personal knowledge. I have seen the Grand Master I studied with do things far more amazing, and I for one assume his training has given him better concentration of energy/ weight/ INTENT etc.

What have you seen this Master do that appeared to be super?

 

As far as I'm concerned, will power is not supernatural. What I am looking for is stuff like flying, being able to boil water with the mind, etc. That sort of thing.

 

Also, as far as I know physics still apply to ants as well as humans. The scale may be different, but there are no loopholes in physics that I've heard of. If you've heard something different, please share.

 

Just to bring everybody up to date on this one. I've sent an email, got a reply, sent one back and I am still waiting for a second response. I'll keep you posted if I receive one...

 

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I don't understand. Why do you promote them in your book description?

 

Do you know of any of these gongfu masters who have these abilities? Have you witnessed them yourself?

 

Thanks.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:30 PM

Subject: Re: White Skeleton Meditation Superpowers

 

I'm sorry but we don't discuss such matters so as not to encourage them.

We simply mention that MANY forms of gongfu (kungfu) result from meditation/cultivation efforts. Lots of people have such powers but they are just gongfu, not the Tao.

 

> Hello,

>

> In the book you sell entitled White Skeleton Meditation,

> (http://www.meditationexpert.com/Skeleton.htm) you say that if you

> cultivate your body's chi channels and jing-chi-shen complex this will

> "commonly gives rise to superpowers." Could I please ask you to

> define these superpowers and if you have experienced them yourself, or

> know if anybody who has?

>

> Also, in your other spiritual practices, have you seen anybody with

> supernatural abilities? If so, what were they?

>

> I am interested in the wonders of Eastern Philosophy and would like to

> find out more.

>

> Thanks

Edited January 26, 2007 by tsa

[Pero]

There is not any real complete objectivity in physics. The act of observing already changes things. Wave-particle anyone?

(not that I know much about physics of any kind... failed my first exam on it as well haha)

 

 

As for superpowers... Didn`t anyone watch X-Men 3?!?!

 

 

EDIT: I hate it when people do that. In past few days I`ve seen like 20 post that were different after I looked at them the second time. Some had volumes of new stuff written. Can`t you guys just make a new post?

(yes I know, I`m doing the same thing right now)

 

Anyway, very cool Tsa. You do have some interesting questions. I hope you find your answers sometime.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Pero

[mYTHmAKER]

This is another cop out. If these masters have a lack of ego, then why would they keep their powers a secret? What would they be afraid of? If it is "natural" then it shouldn't hurt to reveal these powers to the masses. Don't you think it's strange that there isn't one scientifically documented case of these powers considering how many people have lived?

Have you witnessed any of these powers? If so, please share.

 

They would keep them secret precisely because they have a lack of ego.

The masses would'nt believe it anyway and think of the problems that would follow for the masters.

People supposedly saw Jesus walk on water and Moses part the dead sea- would you have asked them to replicate it under scientific conditions.

Would you consider drying sheets, emersed in ice water, in the dead of winter, with no clothes on, with the heat of your body a power. If so it has been documented.

Maharishis people are supposed to levitate - I am not sure but I think it was captured on film.

Would you consider that a power?

[tsa]

They would keep them secret precisely because they have a lack of ego.

The masses would'nt believe it anyway and think of the problems that would follow for the masters.

People supposedly saw Jesus walk on water and Moses part the dead sea- would you have asked them to replicate it under scientific conditions.

Would you consider drying sheets, emersed in ice water, in the dead of winter, with no clothes on, with the heat of your body a power. If so it has been documented.

Maharishis people are supposed to levitate - I am not sure but I think it was captured on film.

Would you consider that a power?

- If they did it scientifically, then people would believe it.

 

- Why would a master NOT want their teachings to be heard throughout the world? Why would they only let a few people in on the superpower, if they themselves are not masters?

 

- I don't believe Jesus walked on water either. I would ask for proof.

 

- Although amazing, I don't consider drying sheets supernatural.

 

- The Indian levitation stuff has been widely debunked. In fact, these guys travel around India exposing them: http://humanists.net/avijit/prabir/sra.htm

[Spectrum]

"Why would a master NOT want their teachings to be heard throughout the world? Why would they only let a few people in on the superpower, if they themselves are not masters?"

 

TSA,

 

You find what you look for. Suggestability works both ways. In places where the supernatural is common place, the place is often commonly supernatural. The way of working suggestability is to look for what you're about to find.

 

Spectrum

[Wayfarer64]

What have you seen this Master do that appeared to be super?

 

As far as I'm concerned, will power is not supernatural. What I am looking for is stuff like flying, being able to boil water with the mind, etc. That sort of thing.

 

Also, as far as I know physics still apply to ants as well as humans. The scale may be different, but there are no loopholes in physics that I've heard of. If you've heard something different, please share.

 

Just to bring everybody up to date on this one. I've sent an email, got a reply, sent one back and I am still waiting for a second response. I'll keep you posted if I receive one...

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't understand. Why do you promote them in your book description?

 

Do you know of any of these gongfu masters who have these abilities? Have you witnessed them yourself?

 

Thanks.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:30 PM

Subject: Re: White Skeleton Meditation Superpowers

 

I'm sorry but we don't discuss such matters so as not to encourage them.

We simply mention that MANY forms of gongfu (kungfu) result from meditation/cultivation efforts. Lots of people have such powers but they are just gongfu, not the Tao.

 

> Hello,

>

> In the book you sell entitled White Skeleton Meditation,

> (http://www.meditationexpert.com/Skeleton.htm) you say that if you

> cultivate your body's chi channels and jing-chi-shen complex this will

> "commonly gives rise to superpowers." Could I please ask you to

> define these superpowers and if you have experienced them yourself, or

> know if anybody who has?

>

> Also, in your other spiritual practices, have you seen anybody with

> supernatural abilities? If so, what were they?

>

> I am interested in the wonders of Eastern Philosophy and would like to

> find out more.

>

> Thanks

 

 

Hi AgainTsa- I have no experience with the white skeleton first hand, but I may buy that book -thanks-

 

Also, I didn't mean to imply that the physics was different with ants/humans only that anything alot larger would have too much mass in our gravity.It is my understanding that giant ants could not function as they do now being so small. I was trying to relate one step out of the many differences in how mass relates to force in this natural world. It was an effort to relate to what Michael had written. It is often confusing just who one is addressing on these threads- I shall try to be more clear in future...

 

 

The Tibetan monks sitting in sub-freezing temperatures over night has been well documented, That is expraordinary at least.

 

To answer yr question Tsa -

I have felt extreme -but not flamable hot - heat eminating from a Master's hand when he said he "charged " his Iron Palm with Qi. He then lightly tapped the dash-board of a Mecedes-Benz just to release the qi- he said he had to hit something and we couldn't pull over- and the dash-board sort of caved in where he tapped it...And once when riding a very fractious horse he tapped its neck, the horse froze, pissed and its ears went back as his eye-balls extended and his nostrals flared - a slight slap and a very fractious stallion-(there was a release signed to ride him)- was gentled... Again low level stuff but an inkling of available powers.

 

As far as the Super-natural wizardry we are all so curious about- I have interest in but not strong belief in these sorts of powers -a sort of agnostic as it were. I too would need better proof than I have as yet - to say it is so.

 

The amazing potentials I have witnessed and a growing understanding of quantum theory keeps me wondering, otherwise I would be much more filled with doubt as the basis of my interest in these matters.

Edited January 27, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[TwoTrees]

tsa - I have never heard of a scientifically documented case of somebody who is able to disapear. Do you have experiance with this? Proof? If not, then why do you believe this is possible?

I did not mean disappear in the literal sense. "Leave society" is more what is meant here.

 

tsa - I totally disagree. Critical thinking, at lest from a scientific point of view, is about removing oneself and allowing the tests and observations to speak for themselves, regardless of the scientist's beliefs (at least if done correctly). If the test is designed correctly and the effect is observed, then the scientist would have to concede that the effect is valid. This gives way to much more freedom of mind then the close mindedness of a Believer because all things remain possible until proven otherwise.

I'm still trying to find the disagreement here. It just seems like a different perspective to me, and one that we will most likely not come into common ground with because the scientist mentality is not something that I've ever enjoyed embracing. The last sentence here struck me as odd, in my statements I'd said nothing of faith and closed-mindedness. But I do agree, that "all things remain possible until proven otherwise", but from your statements thusfar this strikes as contradictory. I know you are starving for the proof and evidence but I regretfully say now that I cannot provide what you are looking for.

 

tsa - I agree the human body is great. Millions of years of evolution under the right conditions have made it so. Every cause has an effect, which is in turn a cause of the next effect, and so forth. Through this chain of cause and effect you can go all the way back to the beginning of the universe. Though there may be many amazing things that happen in nature, they happen for a reason. If this were not the case, then the world would be so unpredictable that life would not be able to exist.

How do you know that life would not be able to exist without predictability ?? What of 'adaptation' ??

 

Proof. Qualification. Science.

Not exactly my favorite words.

 

*sighs*

Seems this is where I withdraw from here ... until the next time an inspiration occurs where I feel like sharing what's on the mind. It just seems like a big headache when technicalities come into play ... forgive me but I just haven't the energy for this these days ...

 

But I will never stop listening and allowing other points of view in ... what would be the point of learning had one ever dared ??

 

*psssst, Peter, I don't like the edit thing's overuse either ... but what can ya do ??*

[DentyDao]

[tsa]

All good points. Thanks for sharing. I guess there are many places in this discussion where philosophical labels overlap. At any rate, thank you for your insights I would be glad to hear any more you have in the future.

 

Also, as far as the edit thing goes...

 

I've made a few edits to my posts; all of them were right after I posted them. A couple edits were for spelling errors - to which I am prone. One edit was because my browser freaked out when I was trying to reply to a different post and it kept putting it under another one, so I deleted it out, but it kept happening, so I just left it. Probably user (me) error. And once I edited a post for content because the post sounded too judgmental, which was not my intention.

 

Please forgive me for these edits. I'll try to get them right the first time, or make a second post.

[tsa]

[Pero]

*psssst, Peter, I don't like the edit thing's overuse either ... but what can ya do ??*

Hehehe, I know, I was just being whiny.

 

 

Also, as far as the edit thing goes...

 

I've made a few edits to my posts; all of them were right after I posted them. A couple edits were for spelling errors - to which I am prone. One edit was because my browser freaked out when I was trying to reply to a different post and it kept putting it under another one, so I deleted it out, but it kept happening, so I just left it. Probably user (me) error. And once I edited a post for content because the post sounded too judgmental, which was not my intention.

 

Please forgive me for these edits. I'll try to get them right the first time, or make a second post.

 

 

I meant more like posts that have new stuff in them later, not spelling mistakes. But anyway lol, relax Tsa. Post as you like, I didn`t think anyone would take it that seriously. There is nothing to forgive.

[mYTHmAKER]

 

- Although amazing, I don't consider drying sheets supernatural.

 

- The Indian levitation stuff has been widely debunked. In fact, these guys travel around India exposing them: http://humanists.net/avijit/prabir/sra.htm

 

Could you give us a few examples of what you consider supernatural powers?

 

A lot of people have taken Maharishis flying course and swear they have levitated.

Too many to not be true

[Wayfarer64]

[DentyDao]

Get on board of the meat train... whooo-hooooo

Taobum reunion in NYC

 

I think Tsa was refering to these insights. The iron body is real!

[mYTHmAKER]

Anyone have Randis email address

Tell him to get his million ready

 

[DentyDao]

Anyone have Randis email address

Tell him to get his million ready

 

 

Holy shit, this is the best thing out there!

[tsa]

[DentyDao]

I'm working on a reply to this, so please bare with me. Just an initial question... What has your teacher David said of the videos and the masters in them? Any experiances of abilities you have heard him share?

 

Nothing to add. I think Your questions have already been answered in my post.

[Wayfarer64]

Hey again One & All-

 

Obfuscation and revelation often go hand in hand with adherents of any faith, dogma, or ism...Encluding Taoism. I belive in reason as the basis of understanding. What is unreasonable should be held to tests beyond scuttlebut on the web.

 

As Mark Twain said - I paraphrase - I have never let schoolin' get in the way of my education.

Or as G.B. Shaw said of harm: There is not much harm in a lion; it has no ideals, no religion, no politics, no chivalry, no gentility...

 

Nature RULES the rules of our existance on this planet. Our precepts that seek to supercede these rules to give ourselves shelter from the storm should always be questioned as suspect.

 

Stay with it Tsa. Your questions seem at least as valid as the responses thus far.

[mYTHmAKER]

[Smile]

Here is an article on someone learning tumo from a book:

http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/392

[sean]

Has anyone posted this one yet? I just ran across it on YouTube.

FpWZXnvP_8U

[Christoph]

"hot foil trick A minor conjuring trick, not commonly used, in which a scrap of aluminum foil is crumpled and placed in the spectator's hand, then the performer suggests that it will become very hot. It does, since a chemical (often a dangerously poisonous mercuric salt) has been surreptitiously rubbed onto it to induce rapid oxidation of the metal, an exothermic reaction producing much heat in a very short time.

The trick is not in the repertoire of any reputable conjuror but has been used by psychics."

 

 

Why would a healer need such props?

The wet foil was suspicious to me so a quick check turned up this nugget of info.

[thaddeus]

The wet foil was suspicious to me so a quick check turned up this nugget of info.

Yeah, also in the video clip where the 'master' was moving the water, etc...why the tablecloth? You'll find with all of these demo's, there's a setup. No different from a magic show. Someone said it best earlier, when you can't see how it's done, why assume the most magical explanation?

With so many millions of people practicing qigong for so many years, we would see more things like this.

A curious thing about the rolled up towel..notice how the whole towel generated heat and nothing around it? You mean to say the qi emitted from the guy is so precise that only the towel and only the tin foil heats up? Again, I don't remember much of my physics, but I'm sure a real scientist would have something to say about reflective heat vs generated heat in those examples.

T

[thaddeus]

Here is an article on someone learning tumo from a book:

http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/392

This is cool..might get the book..