Trolling and Off-topic disruptions

[Jetsun]

That is an good price for a workshop, especially when you compare it to people like Wang Liping who charges thousands without much personal interaction. To be fair to Michael I have pm'd him a few times asking for advice whether his techniques could help me for particular problems and he usually said that he doesn't know if they can help and I might be better off trying other things, so he wasn't blindly trying to sell me his product at all or passing it off as a miracle practice, so on that front he comes across as far more honest and upfront than most other healers I have dealt with.

[GrandmasterP]

I used to troll. Yes, I would sit in a boat, the boat moving slowly forward, trying to catch a fish. I was any good at it. Likely I didn't practice enough.

 

And I totally agree that if a member has a question concerning a topic, subject, concept and makes a post requesting information it is fair but even recommended that someone with knowledge in that area respond to the member's question. So what that this responding member earns a living in this area of consideration? I don't consider that trolling; I consider it trying to be helpful.

 

Now. I will agreee that if the answers (?) are withheld unless the questioning member joins or pays something is trolling. Is it totally wrong? I can't answer that.

Absolute ages since I've been fishing.

Aim to catch the cat some dinners from the sea off North Norfolk come next May.

Trolling works best for Mackerel. Only bait I use is silver paper. They love it.

[GrandmasterP]

"£350 for a day"

 

Also it is not 350 pounds for a day it is 350 dollars (£125) for a three day full workshop and that is with a world renowned master, where you get an authentic lineage transmission worth a lot of effort imo. How much do you think people like Michael who went back and forth from USA to China and put in thousands upon thousands of hours of training required spent? Like I said some people might find the price hefty, I have struggled on a couple occasions due to not working at the moment but I know plenty of people who go to nightclubs and spend £30-40 a night, twice a week. Also I do agree with what Michael has said about some Qigong routines serving as mostly calisthenetics and I think there is a valid reason for him saying that. There is that Yi jin jing workshop to China that cost £3000 or something?

 

He also has something like 2-300 posts if memory serves correctly hardly only posting to advertise.

That £350-00 for one day wasn't anyone on here buddy it was a transmission gig by a guy from New Zealand touring England. He charges another £50 for an 'energised' medallion thingy too. Those look to be worth about 50p to make.

Nice money if you can get it eh?

[三江源]

That £350-00 for one day wasn't anyone on here buddy it was a transmission gig by a guy from New Zealand touring England. He charges another £50 for an 'energised' medallion thingy too. Those look to be worth about 50p to make.

Nice money if you can get it eh?

If you have a little look around you 'll see there are people who spend £350 on a pair of shoes, or on a dinner party.

 

I know when I stopped being a student and living in co - op housing I was amazed by the cost of rents... the fact is wages differ, free income levels differ, costs differ and vary, there is a place for every pocket, no matter how big or small..... it does continually suprise untill you update your financial awareness. Many people work hard and save up for they want, many people simply have the cash, others forgo the more expensiv end of things and cut their costs according to their cash. C'est la vie.

I am often a bit fed up by how much my shopping costs in the supermarket... this comes from having it in my head that a loaf of bread costs two shillings. UPDATE TIME!

[ChiDragon]

I used to troll. Yes, I would sit in a boat, the boat moving slowly forward, trying to catch a fish. I was any good at it. Likely I didn't practice enough.

 

And I totally agree that if a member has a question concerning a topic, subject, concept and makes a post requesting information it is fair but even recommended that someone with knowledge in that area respond to the member's question. So what that this responding member earns a living in this area of consideration? I don't consider that trolling; I consider it trying to be helpful.

 

Now. I will agreee that if the answers (?) are withheld unless the questioning member joins or pays something is trolling. Is it totally wrong? I can't answer that.

 

FYI.....

I gave a "Wu Wei" vote on this poll.

 

[Marblehead]

 

FYI.....

I gave a "Wu Wei" vote on this poll.

 

Hehehe.

[Birch]

I agree that Michael Lomax is consistent in his contributions to the TTB's and I appreciate the 'no hard sell' approach. I dunno though that one should be comparing the number of hours and $ amount spent on one's own cultivation with any price one is inclined to set for one's own students as justification of that price.

 

There's definitely a 'spiritual marketplace' on in full force at the moment (and apparently this has also been the case in the past what with selling bone relics and whatnot and I won't get into church financing ) What part of the teaching does a practitioner ask people to pay for? I understand covering costs for places to meet and eat and stay and for teachers to travel and meet their students. I understand translation and distribution costs (although with the web those costs can reach almost zero.)

 

There does seem to be some kind of expectation of 'voluntary poverty' for teachers and I think it would be better if that changed, so all of this 'price justification' stuff doesn't hold any more. In fact I'd rather get taught by a teacher who is capable of living in the world with financial independence as it's something I'd like to emulate. I don't want to learn how to beg for alms or have to recruit people to an organization to keep my expenses covered.

 

----opinion etc----

[Apech]

If you teach full time why shouldn't you live off it ... in which case people have to pay. Don't see the problem.

 

 

(By the way can I interest you in a course in Apechatonics ... only 450$ for an introductory leaflet and then you can mortgage your house.)

Edited January 31, 2013 by Apech

[Marblehead]

If you teach full time why shouldn't you live off it ... in which case people have to pay. Don't see the problem.

 

 

(By the way can I interest you in a course in Apechatonics ... only 450$ for an introductory leaflet and then you can mortgage your house.)

What's all this? You in need of a hug? (I got one about an hour ago from one of my friends.) (A virtual one to you my friend.)

[Birch]

If you teach full time why shouldn't you live off it ... in which case people have to pay. Don't see the problem.

 

 

(By the way can I interest you in a course in Apechatonics ... only 450$ for an introductory leaflet and then you can mortgage your house.)

 

I didn't say that getting paid to teach was the problem. Your example illustrates the kind of thing I do think is a problem though. You could probably teach yourself and I wouldn't mind learning from you if you didn't do the 450$ pamphlet thing (I'd feel icky charging people that for stuff they can learn for free).

[Apech]

I didn't say that getting paid to teach was the problem. Your example illustrates the kind of thing I do think is a problem though. You could probably teach yourself and I wouldn't mind learning from you if you didn't do the 450$ pamphlet thing (I'd feel icky charging people that for stuff they can learn for free).

 

 

yes it does have an icky feel you are right. But I think there are genuine people who come to the point where maybe they give up a career to teach .(this is not me by the way - I've never done this) And so they would have to charge. Where it all goes wrong for me is not this.

 

Where it goes wrong is when commercial interests distort the message. If you are dependent on income from patrons ... like a movie star for instance ... who then donates millions to build a temple or whatnot ... do you suppose he/she is treated the same as the rest of us bums who wander in off the street. And do you suppose a teacher who wants income isn't going to tailor his teachings to what is popular or sex them up a bit with the latest fancy sounding hocus pocus quantum-black hole- dark energy tantra. How hard is he going to be on a person who has just paid $450 for a leaflet and mortgaged their house? This is the problem ... the whole thing gets changed slightly and suddenly you are a customer or a client and not a disciple or pupil or student.

[Flolfolil]

i'd feel like a rip off artist if i were a teacher, because no information actually belongs to me. nothing wrong with it, just stating that i would never personally charge. not many people want to be the guy who gets nothing in return for their info, but i would. Every time i have done something i loved for money it totally ruined it for me. i do things for free because it brings me joy helping people, but i'm trying to get over that benefit as well.

[Birch]

I agree with you Apech. Taking your quote out of context (which I apologize for:-)) "Where it goes wrong is when commercial interests distort the message" is pretty much how I feel about any situation in which 'commercial interests distort' anything (and the reverse is true for 'spirituality' being brought into realms IMO it 'shouldn't be' but who am I stop a government for example proclaiming Christian allegiance as some kind national moral integrity)?

 

I heard it said that 'any' kind of promotion of spiritual messages is fine because that's how people get into contact with that realm. It's the excuse for monotheism, the book-religions, 'The Secret' and so many other things that make me want to scream.

[Apech]

I agree with you Apech. Taking your quote out of context (which I apologize for:-)) "Where it goes wrong is when commercial interests distort the message" is pretty much how I feel about any situation in which 'commercial interests distort' anything (and the reverse is true for 'spirituality' being brought into realms IMO it 'shouldn't be' but who am I stop a government for example proclaiming Christian allegiance as some kind national moral integrity)? I heard it said that 'any' kind of promotion of spiritual messages is fine because that's how people get into contact with that realm. It's the excuse for monotheism, the book-religions, 'The Secret' and so many other things that make me want to scream.

 

 

i think the 'off the shelf' mysticism/magic of the 'The Secret' and so on is a sign that people are desperate for something real but not materialistic. real practice is hard work and challenging but buying a book is not.

[C T]

yes it does have an icky feel you are right. But I think there are genuine people who come to the point where maybe they give up a career to teach .(this is not me by the way - I've never done this) And so they would have to charge. Where it all goes wrong for me is not this.

 

Where it goes wrong is when commercial interests distort the message. If you are dependent on income from patrons ... like a movie star for instance ... who then donates millions to build a temple or whatnot ... do you suppose he/she is treated the same as the rest of us bums who wander in off the street. And do you suppose a teacher who wants income isn't going to tailor his teachings to what is popular or sex them up a bit with the latest fancy sounding hocus pocus quantum-black hole- dark energy tantra. How hard is he going to be on a person who has just paid $450 for a leaflet and mortgaged their house? This is the problem ... the whole thing gets changed slightly and suddenly you are a customer or a client and not a disciple or pupil or student.

I have attended a couple of retreats led by a well-known Rinpoche, and the man who donated all his land to enable the retreat centre to have a base was sitting amongst the students, learning and listening with them, and so were a handful of his (Rinpoche's) patrons as well. There was no open acknowledgement that these were the creamier elite, where they got to sit to one side of the hall, like vips or something to that effect. They also ate with the group, and bunked with the rest of attendees as well. One can see from a distance that these people were with substance, from the cars they drove to the way they dressed. (But they definitely were not wearing designer shoes from Prada or Jimmy Choo, cos these will just conveniently get lost in the mountain of Hush Pups and M&S slippers outside the meditation hall.)

 

It may just be a show, but if it was, these people should seek screentests in Hollow'ed.

[Mark Saltveit]

Zhuangzi -- when the skilled archer shoots for prize money, he loses his aim. I don't think the point is to not make money; it's to forget that the money is there and act as if it weren't, just as you would react to petty insults, jealousy, etc.

[Apech]

I have attended a couple of retreats led by a well-known Rinpoche, and the man who donated all his land to enable the retreat centre to have a base was sitting amongst the students, learning and listening with them, and so were a handful of his (Rinpoche's) patrons as well. There was no open acknowledgement that these were the creamier elite, where they got to sit to one side of the hall, like vips or something to that effect. They also ate with the group, and bunked with the rest of attendees as well. One can see from a distance that these people were with substance, from the cars they drove to the way they dressed. (But they definitely were not wearing designer shoes from Prada or Jimmy Choo, cos these will just conveniently get lost in the mountain of Hush Pups and M&S slippers outside the meditation hall.)

 

It may just be a show, but if it was, these people should seek screentests in Hollow'ed.

 

That sounds good. I wasn't suggesting its a universal rule ... just it does happen.

[Marblehead]

Zhuangzi -- when the skilled archer shoots for prize money, he loses his aim. I don't think the point is to not make money; it's to forget that the money is there and act as if it weren't, just as you would react to petty insults, jealousy, etc.

Good to see someone beside just me posting Chuang Tzu quotes.

[GrandmasterP]

That doesn't work with darts Mark.

Those pro darts players are on the ball and have to be if they hope to take home the dough.

[三江源]

That doesn't work with darts Mark. Those pro darts players are on the ball and have to be if they hope to take home the dough.

I just cant help noticing that loads of your posts are mentioning people making money, how much they make, how they are doing what they do for money, etc. Just sayin'.

[Apech]

I just cant help noticing that loads of your posts are mentioning people making money, how much they make, how they are doing what they do for money, etc. Just sayin'.

 

 

Perhaps he'd like to borrow five quid till next tuesday.

[三江源]

Ah.. subtle!

[GrandmasterP]

Pay day today.

 

:-)

 

[Owledge]

I voted yes. I'm pro-freedom, but not when someone is deliberately trolling or always taking things off topic.

 

Ideally, the moderator warning should always happen quickly...before any action is taken.

This is the voter tragedy. Presented with something that sounds completely reasonable, but then the people deciding what applies to the definition have all the power. Why does that thought not even cross people's mind? The poll description was very vague.

Seems people like to write blank cheques.

[Mark Saltveit]

That doesn't work with darts Mark. Those pro darts players are on the ball and have to be if they hope to take home the dough.

 

The question is, how do they get "on the ball?"

Probably not by dreaming of how much money they're going to win.