Trolling and Off-topic disruptions

[Harmonious Emptiness]

[Now to go almost completely off topic in the no off-topic thread:]

 

How many students still do all their teachers chores and basically treat them like their own elderly parent? Seems the students have changed the game too. How many students do whatever their teacher says, whenever, no questions asked? Not doing that either. The days have changed, the barter has changed.

 

It used to be that teachings like that from Wang Li Ping would only be earned from years of loyalty. Well, people don't have years 'cause they need money, so what they have instead today is money. Money is time and time is money. One has to prove some degree of commitment to deserve an accomplished teacher's care and close attention. That's just the way it goes. Otherwise people just waste people's time and don't do themselves any favours by not valuing what they were given and taught, nor the time and attention of a master.

 

So good for you if you give away free 8 Section Brocade lessons and create a community of like minded people who benefit from gathering and so forth, this is a truly admirable community service, however, just 'cause you're giving away free rice doesn't mean that the gourmet chefs should give away what they have to offer. They would either starve or have no time left to benefit others as they also have to practice at least a few hours a day by themselves. 8 hours of of work + 3 hours training + 2 hours eating + 8 hours sleeping leaves 3 hours in the day to relax. These teachings would disappear, and that would be a whole lot worse than people having to pay..

[GrandmasterP]

Not necessarily.

There's nothing prescriptive anywhere saying that teachers don't need to work for their living.

John Chang was (is?) a prawn farmer.

Our teacher managed a Chinese takeaway.

Some of these morbidly obese system sellers you see now and again could do to do a day's work and shed a few pounds. It would do them good long term.

There was a clip on here a while ago of some fat lad extolling the benefits of his for-sale product and somebody posted under it asking 'Is he a Sumo?'

Edited February 2, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[三江源]

Not necessarily.

There's nothing prescriptive anywhere saying that teachers don't need to work for their living.

John Chang was (is?) a prawn farmer.

Our teacher managed a Chinese takeaway.

Some of these morbidly obese system sellers you see now and again could do to do a day's work and shed a few pounds. It would do them good long term.

They should bring back national service and make qigong teachers do extra time.

[GrandmasterP]

LOL

Quite right too.

Wouldn't work though, first week most of 'em would be off sick and claiming compo.

Edited February 2, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[三江源]

yes, or slacking off chatting on messageboards.

[GrandmasterP]

On topic....

'Or slacking off and trolling on message boards'.

 

;-)

 

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Not necessarily.

There's nothing prescriptive anywhere saying that teachers don't need to work for their living.

John Chang was (is?) a prawn farmer.

Our teacher managed a Chinese takeaway.

Some of these morbidly obese system sellers you see now and again could do to do a day's work and shed a few pounds. It would do them good long term.

There was a clip on here a while ago of some fat lad extolling the benefits of his for-sale product and somebody posted under it asking 'Is he a Sumo?'

You ignored the actual post and responded to the one aspect that you had anything to counter with. This is troll behavior at its worst -- acting like there is an actual debate going on while only ignoring the crux of the persons argument. Wasting my time with you no more....

Edited February 2, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[GrandmasterP]

Aye trolling is often in the eye of the beholder as has been said on here already.

Just press 'ignore' buddy that'll work.

:-)

[ChiDragon]

Aye trolling is often in the eye of the beholder as has been said on here already. Just press 'ignore' buddy that'll work. :-)

 

Yes, "ignore" is a silent way to express oneself that further verbal exchange is no longer needed. Hence, it means either that the last argument was not valid or just due to the lack of further interest in the subject matter.

[三江源]

You ignored the actual post and responded to the one aspect that you had anything to counter with. This is troll behavior at its worst -- acting like there is an actual debate going on while only ignoring the crux of the persons argument. Wasting my time with you no more....

Thankyou for this. I have copied it to the concierge where we are discussing troll type posting and this post has helped to define what type of trolling is destructive to the impetus of creative discussion.

[Aaron]

[Now to go almost completely off topic in the no off-topic thread:]

 

How many students still do all their teachers chores and basically treat them like their own elderly parent? Seems the students have changed the game too. How many students do whatever their teacher says, whenever, no questions asked? Not doing that either. The days have changed, the barter has changed.

 

It used to be that teachings like that from Wang Li Ping would only be earned from years of loyalty. Well, people don't have years 'cause they need money, so what they have instead today is money. Money is time and time is money. One has to prove some degree of commitment to deserve an accomplished teacher's care and close attention. That's just the way it goes. Otherwise people just waste people's time and don't do themselves any favours by not valuing what they were given and taught, nor the time and attention of a master.

 

So good for you if you give away free 8 Section Brocade lessons and create a community of like minded people who benefit from gathering and so forth, this is a truly admirable community service, however, just 'cause you're giving away free rice doesn't mean that the gourmet chefs should give away what they have to offer. They would either starve or have no time left to benefit others as they also have to practice at least a few hours a day by themselves. 8 hours of of work + 3 hours training + 2 hours eating + 8 hours sleeping leaves 3 hours in the day to relax. These teachings would disappear, and that would be a whole lot worse than people having to pay..

 

Ironically, this is off-topic, but this is what I'm pointing to as well, that certain off-topic discussions are a natural evolution of the discussion, while others are just intended to cause disruptions or serve a personal agenda. To some extent this is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

Now, as for this particular topic, I see nothing wrong or right with charging for lessons, although I do know that some teachers charge very high fees for their lessons, to say this is justifiable as a means to judge one's commitment is a bit strange to me. One could judge someone's commitment by their actual commitment, without the need to charge high fees. With that said, we live in a capitalist world and supply and demand rule every facet of lives, so if there is enough demand, but not enough of a supply, then one can charge these high fees as a result. I think with the growing rise of Tai Chi and Qigong we'll see people begin to charge more reasonable rates in the future. And as always, we can choose to not pay those fees. There are many qualified teachers who don't charge these high rates, so really it's up to the consumer to choose and who are we to choose what they consume?

 

Aaron

[JustARandomPanda]

Aye trolling is often in the eye of the beholder as has been said on here already. Just press 'ignore' buddy that'll work. :-)

 

 

Getting complaints from other TTBs about you GMP. Think long about what you post, eh?

[gatito]

Aye trolling is often in the eye of the beholder as has been said on here already. Just press 'ignore' buddy that'll work. :-)

 

Or quote and type "Ignored" - like my other friend Recep Ivedik who was bullied (by a mod I believe) and then banned

[gatito]

Getting complaints from other TTBs about you GMP. Think long about what you post, eh?

 

What's his crime?

 

Politically incorrect sense of humour?

[zerostao]

a silent way to express oneself

sometimes the silence speaks louder than the spoken and sometimes it pays to notice what is not being said.

 

 

What's his crime?

good question

[dawei]

Ignore may work at times but it may be ignoring the issue too. If someone comes into a thread and those posts now derail the purpose and discuss and cause bad feelings then ignoring it is like the teacher letting the students do whatever they want at the expense of the class.

 

So, we should keep some common sense as a part of an understanding of the issues... does asking moderators to publicly discuss private reports further the topic? It seems to go against common sense in my book. For others, it may serve some need.

[ChiDragon]

a silent way to express oneself

sometimes the silence speaks louder than the spoken and sometimes it pays to notice what is not being said.

 

Profound......!!!

[gatito]

Ignore may work at times but it may be ignoring the issue too. If someone comes into a thread and those posts now derail the purpose and discuss and cause bad feelings then ignoring it is like the teacher letting the students do whatever they want at the expense of the class.

 

So, we should keep some common sense as a part of an understanding of the issues... does asking moderators to publicly discuss private reports further the topic? It seems to go against common sense in my book. For others, it may serve some need.

 

If I want to attend a classroom and have a teacher - I'll enrol at a school - TTB is about equals having conversations with other equals.

[gatito]

And.......

 

There are Moderation Logs - these need to be used properly in the interests of transparency. TTBs should not be a police state where people are thrown out of helicopters into the Pacific, never to be heard from again.

 

This is not Chile and sean is not Pinochet.....(I hope - LOL)

[gatito]

I've posted in The Moderation Logs about Recep Ivedik

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/26840-recep-ivedik/?p=400377

 

and I've "Reported" the post to the mods in case they didn't notice it.

[Mark Saltveit]

sometimes the silence speaks louder than the spoken and sometimes it pays to notice what is not being said.

 

Damn right! I am not responding to you so hard right now. Can you feel the burn?

[Apech]

And.......

 

There are Moderation Logs - these need to be used properly in the interests of transparency. TTBs should not be a police state where people are thrown out of helicopters into the Pacific, never to be heard from again.

 

This is not Chile and sean is not Pinochet.....(I hope - LOL)

 

Funny how a very mild warning to GmP ends up with comparison to fascist juntas. Is that helpful? Anyway I hear the Pacific is quite mild this time of year.

[Marblehead]

Anyway I hear the Pacific is quite mild this time of year.

And it would be a nice swim if it weren't for the sharks.

[GrandmasterP]

Very bracing a dip in the ocean.

Wasn't aware I'd been 'warned' howsoever mildly.

Cat usually sends me a PM.

I have no issue with anyone charging at all. We charge albeit not very much.

It's using general forums to push product via blatant adverts thinly disguised as posts that strikes me as just a bit cheeky.

Nothing more than that, the system may well be superb, but it seems that bit cheeky to turn the forum into a rent free market stall for it.

On the MA forum I post on that sort of thing happens now and again and is pretty well moderated out if a pattern emerges.

Anyone repetitively promoting their product or dojo is directed to the paid advertising route.

As has been mentioned on here and by other posters than me too, there are a few system sellers ( not many at all it must be said) on here who only seem to post in order to push their products.

I don't think that it is trolling to raise that concern, others may disagree and that's fair enough.

Accusing someone of trolling as a means of shutting down debate though.......that's a bit off.

I have used the complaints post to complain about it and only posted here on the subject as it seemed directly relevant to this topic.

Nuff said by me on that particular issue, if such it be; now I think. The mods are the ones to decide.

 

OP then...

I do agree that topics can evolve and maybe when they do it's best for a spin off thread so that the original topic can proceed without too much derailment.

 

Off topic Q...

Was TTB down yesterday?

I couldn't get on at all.

Edited February 4, 2013 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

 

OP then...

I do agree that topics can evolve and maybe when they do it's best for a spin off thread so that the original topic can proceed without too much derailment.

 

Off topic Q...

Was TTB down yesterday?

I couldn't get on at all.

Yes. I believe that this is what the OP was point to more than anything else. (As an Anarchist I would be totally against censorship but on the other hand I would request speaking and acting responsibly.)

 

Yep, the board was taking a break for a while yesterday. Sometimes we just gotta rest.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Marblehead