Taoist Monasticism in China Today

[Kongming]

In China too, according to the law you need a degree to obtain a real Visa Among all the traditions you are interested in, and they are a lot (too many IMHO), I would say that Tibetan Buddhism has the greater amount of good teachers overseas. Just find one such group near to you and start to get acquainted but don't look too far, just take things easy and walk step by step. You will realize that most of the pre-conceived ideas you have might be totally wrong so, on the way, you will make HUGE adjustments to your plans Best YM

 

I hear officially you need a degree to obtain a visa, but in practice there are many individuals teaching there without a degree. I imagine if one were to receive the CELTA certification in China, it would be easy to go from there.

 

I suppose you could say that I am interested in too many traditions (really I am interested on an intellectual level in all sacred traditions), but really they could be lumped (as I did earlier) as Zen, Tantric Buddhism, and Taoism. I listed them all for the sake of discussion, at this point and based upon what I've been learning this past week or so, I'd say I am most interested in Tibetan Buddhism and Shingon in terms of actual practice. As you say, overseas and in terms of the wealth of information available, it seems Tibetan Buddhism is likely the obvious choice. Though I will continue to study and listen to my intuition.

 

Thanks again!

[YMWong]

I hear officially you need a degree to obtain a visa, but in practice there are many individuals teaching there without a degree.

Well, if you want to start your spiritual journey and become a "monk" based on a lie with the authorities or overstaying your tourist Visa (this is what many young foreigner do in China) I would personally question your motivations in first place.

 

Sorry to be straightforward

 

Best

 

YM

Edited February 3, 2013 by YMWong

[林愛偉]

I hear officially you need a degree to obtain a visa, but in practice there are many individuals teaching there without a degree. I imagine if one were to receive the CELTA certification in China, it would be easy to go from there.

 

I suppose you could say that I am interested in too many traditions (really I am interested on an intellectual level in all sacred traditions), but really they could be lumped (as I did earlier) as Zen, Tantric Buddhism, and Taoism. I listed them all for the sake of discussion, at this point and based upon what I've been learning this past week or so, I'd say I am most interested in Tibetan Buddhism and Shingon in terms of actual practice. As you say, overseas and in terms of the wealth of information available, it seems Tibetan Buddhism is likely the obvious choice. Though I will continue to study and listen to my intuition.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

Any type of teaching certification will do when finding a job through a middle man company who hires you directly. Therefore you work as an employee of the company and they set up teaching contracts with a school. One, they sign a contract with you for their company, and then you sign one with the school. The company is your employer, not the school, so any problems one refers directly to their hiring company. This will get you a work visa, which allows you to live in China for a year, and can be renewed through that particular company.

 

Another way is to have a degree from Bachelors and up. This will give you a residence/foreign experts permit. You can find work individually and a school can hire you directly. Or, you can go through a middle man company as well.

 

Both options are good, first one is a bit safer, unless the second option has been worked out in full detail with the school concerning all types of living conditions and salary, etc.

 

Best position, if looking to study in a monastery, for the time being, get a job out here, be a resident/worker, connect with a monastery, and build good ties with them. Then pop the question about leaving the home life to them and how to go about doing it legally. Then you will have to go through the appropriate procedures for such things. :-)

 

I live and teach in China, and am here currently. I have a teaching cert. TEFL, and have been here since 2004. Came back to NY for 3 yrs '09-'11, and have no problems getting visas.

 

 

Another option...hahaha find a girlfriend, get married and get a family visa issued in china giving you residence for 1 yr, which can be renewed. But you can't work on a family visa, so it has to be changed to a work visa.

[Kongming]

Well, if you want to start your spiritual journey and become a "monk" based on a lie with the authorities or overstaying your tourist Visa (this is what many young foreigner do in China) I would personally question your motivations in first place.

 

Sorry to be straightforward

 

Best

 

YM

 

I was speaking only in reference to teaching English, not becoming a monk. Based on what has been said to me both on this forum and others, I have my doubts about what China can offer me today in terms of spirituality, especially in regards to Taoism. Perhaps Chan Buddhism is worth a look, but who knows. I suppose I will only ever know for myself if I go there.

 

I suppose I didn't really see the issue as a lie since in practice this is how it is done, and rather than limit myself for my lack of a degree or spend 10s of thousands of dollars and years of my time obtaining a piece of paper solely for this purpose, it seemed simply a realistic choice on my part.

 

On a separate note, what is the situation with Tibetan Buddhism within China? I know due to recent history the political situation is probably tense, and I hear most people say forget about going to Tibet proper (hence why I brought up Dharamsala) but what about Tibetan minorities in Sichuan? Do any Han Chinese practice Vajrayana?

[Kongming]

Any type of teaching certification will do when finding a job through a middle man company who hires you directly. Therefore you work as an employee of the company and they set up teaching contracts with a school. One, they sign a contract with you for their company, and then you sign one with the school. The company is your employer, not the school, so any problems one refers directly to their hiring company. This will get you a work visa, which allows you to live in China for a year, and can be renewed through that particular company.

 

Another way is to have a degree from Bachelors and up. This will give you a residence/foreign experts permit. You can find work individually and a school can hire you directly. Or, you can go through a middle man company as well.

 

Both options are good, first one is a bit safer, unless the second option has been worked out in full detail with the school concerning all types of living conditions and salary, etc.

 

Best position, if looking to study in a monastery, for the time being, get a job out here, be a resident/worker, connect with a monastery, and build good ties with them. Then pop the question about leaving the home life to them and how to go about doing it legally. Then you will have to go through the appropriate procedures for such things. :-)

 

I live and teach in China, and am here currently. I have a teaching cert. TEFL, and have been here since 2004. Came back to NY for 3 yrs '09-'11, and have no problems getting visas.

 

 

Another option...hahaha find a girlfriend, get married and get a family visa issued in china giving you residence for 1 yr, which can be renewed. But you can't work on a family visa, so it has to be changed to a work visa.

 

Thanks for the information, I will keep what you said in mind. It seems I have a lot on my plate to think about and consider; likely any action based on these ideas won't materialize for some time. Right now I am simply trying to become as informed as possible since I actually am serious about these matters.

 

As to the girlfriend option, I don't think that would jive very well with my ambitions to become a monk haha.

[林愛偉]

This is the best advice I have ever read about this coming to China for studies. hahahaha

I have had such similar accounts with a Daoist monk back in 2006. Funny guy.

 

I met a high level cultivator and we became friends. We cultivated together, and practiced privately while his police guards kept watch out his house, where he temporarily lived.

 

Then a few months gone by, I contacted him telling him I want to take a week's private solitary practice in a temple he found to be ok for that kind of stuff. He directed me to a friend of his, the funny guy I mentioned above. When I went, I had my sword on my back, and a small pack ready to go. I'm picked up by captains of police, and road off to the big city to meet the funny guy Daoist monk.

 

We get to a restaurant, and wait. The room filled with at least 20 guys, all police and politicians. Then he comes in. sits down and stares at me . He asks me to drink and I refused. Then the captain replies, he is a master, you should call him Shifu. I said, sure, but he's not my Shifu, so far, he is only a Daoist monk who is going to indulge in drinking and smoking. Nothing special, I have seen this before. hahaha

 

 

The monk looks at me and then says, come I show you some skill. Then, he grabs the porcelain chop sticks, and stabs himslef in the neck, thus pushing really hard, and breaks the chopstick. He smiles and says, eh? I smiled and said, you have a hard neck, nothing spectacular.

 

Then, at this time, I had my sword in my hand, handle in the palm of my hand, and the sword pointing to the floor. He suddenly turns to my sword and tries to grab it, then looks and says, "oh, I shouldn't do that." I smiled and he exclaimed that he would kick me in the arm if I even began to swing the sword and then make me drop it.

 

I smiled, and said to him, okay, that's nice, but this sword isn't for killing people. He then asked me to hold it up, with arms extended , then he will kick my underarm and make me drop the sword. I agreed, and he kicked several times, but to no avail. After, he exclaimed that he drank too much possibly and now will try "Dim Mak" on my underarm to make me release the sword. I smiled and agreed, but he kept pressing, and nothing.

 

THen he asked for my recitation beads, and called over a drunkard friend of his to hold them up. He wanted to show me how the "dim mak" really works because something wasn't right with my pressure point and he couldn't make it work on me. So the drunkard holds up my beads, and the funny guy goes to press the underarm of drunky. As soon as he did, I reached behind the monk, and grabbed my beads in mid air, rolled them up on my wrist and smiled. Everyone was quiet and just sat there staring.

 

I said, the man is drunk off his rocer, if I blow on him he will drop anything in his hands. Its no use, nothing worked. Besides, I am here because such and such big brother of mine refered me to you in the knowing that I will take a week's solitary practice at your temple.

 

He replied, oh? you don't want to learn martial arts? I teach alot of foreigners, and wrote a book. I said, actually, if you didn't try to convince me, I might have considered it over time, but your efforts don't dazzle me and your mannerisms show its not worth me going to your temple for anything. Sorry, but I am leaving.

 

They were all upset saying how he came down from the mountain to see me. I replied, thank yo uall, but the truth is I am not here to be sold by some hyped up commercialization of cultivation. I came here to practice, not to dance and be shown off as the token foreigner who comes for Daoism. As far as I see it, the true ones are few and far between, and none of them are in this room.

 

After a few days I contacted my friend who refered me to the funny guy. Told him, and he laughed and said, yeah, well he got a little too over his head. He should have just let you go and practice. Sorry about that. No harm done, it was amusing, I said, and we ended off nicely. He then gave me a referral to go to Lao Shan and do my practice, but by that time, I was returning to NY for the summer. Afterwards, my friend disappeared..as usual. hahaha

 

 

They are out there, but few and far between and in the most unlikely of places. I met my friend in a touristy temple, really quiet and nice place called Dai Miao in Taian, Shandong. He was wearing black dress pants and frog buttoned black shirt and his hair tied in poney tail, with 4 police friends as his protectors. He came to me one day while I was writing and asked to see my sword. I said, the sword doesn't allow such a thing. Then his protectors exclaimed, he is a Daoist high priest, how can you be so disrespectful? I said, well, if he admits to it, the sword will agree, other than that, no lies here. And he admitted, and examined the sword. We talked about the sword and what it was for. Anywho, thus began the friendship and fun times.

 

 

 

 

There is much to be said in response to many of the posts here, and I'll try to cover as much as I can, in no particular order.

 

1. YMWong is absolutely right, your first concern is the visa situation. His question about whiteness and having a TEFL cert implies this: if you have both of those things, getting into China on a teacher's visa is very, very easy. If you are not white, you almost certainly need a TEFL; if you are white, you might not. Or, you could get a student visa through a Mandarin school and work part-time--most likely, again, as a teacher--while you learn language and pursue spiritual interests in your spare time. There is no monk visa, though, and I doubt there will be any time soon. If you put in a lot of years in China, other doors might open to you (ie, the owner of a company hooks you up or you get married), but you will almost certainly need to know Chinese first.
2. As you can already see in point 1, learning the language is extremely important. Knowing Mandarin opens many doors, partly because it shows your dedication, partly because the fact is that one needs the language to transmit the knowledge of Daoism (as to whether cultivation skill can be transmitted without using the language, there are those who say that they developed skill in China without being able to speak the language. I cannot comment, as I know Chinese, and quite possibly have no skill!)
3. Wudang. The actual temples in Wudang are legally forbidden from allowing foreigners to live inside, and are strict about this rule, though, as it is China, I can imagine that exceptions have been made before. Almost all of the foreigners there are students at various kung-fu academies, of which there are many, and within which, from what I understand, it is unlikely that you will find a real transmission of Daoist cultivation practice. A story: a friend of mine is a very talented martial artist from Europe who spent about a year on Wudang. At some point his girlfriend wanted to visit, but she is not a martial artist. Fortunately, the website of his school said that she could come and pay to learn Taoist meditation and qigong instead of martial arts. She paid her tuition and traveled halfway around the world but was surprised to be taught only martial arts. Gradually her frustration grew, as, after all, the website explicitly said that she would be taught to meditate, and this is what she paid her Euros for. Finally, she made an appointment to talk to the teacher via translator. She showed him a copy of The Secret of the Golden Flower and, from what I understand, very sternly told the teacher that this is what she came to China to learn. He was very uncomfortable and promised that her education in Daoist meditation would begin the very next day. The meeting ended... The teacher never spoke to her again for the rest of her stay. She learned nothing. The teacher in question is one of the most famous on Wudang. From what I understand from having spoken to students from other academies, including Chinese youths who spent much of their teens there, spiritual cultivation is not on any curriculum. Actual internal martial skill, if it is taught there, is probably very hard to come by. All of that said, however, I add this: there are some Daoists on Wudang who are regarded as having real achievement, for whatever hearsay is worth. Actually getting to study with one is no guarantee to anybody and many, many factors would come into play if you were to be able to. A foreigner on a quick visit who has no Chinese would be very, very lucky to meet such a teacher.
4. The White Cloud Monastery in Beijing. Nowadays they are indeed offering Daoist education to foreigners of all colors. Don't get too excited. The training is to become a ritual master. Traditionally, this training can take years or even decades, and requires one to be able to directly interact with the Heavens if ritual is to be real. The Westerners who come to this new program get to be certified ritual masters in just one or two easy weeks, and they don't even speak Chinese. Sooner or later graduates will probably start to show up on this forum, I imagine. As for the actual monks there, we are talking about a big mix, ranging from those who brazenly flaunt every last stricture, even within the temple walls, to a few who might be true masters. Whether in Beijing, on Wudang, or anywhere else where tourists run amok, you will have a hard time finding a teacher--though, of course, it is not impossible. Learn the language and get ready to stay in China for a lot of years if you want the possibility to be realistic.
5. ChiDragon speaks his typical nonsense when he says that only foreigners frequent Daoist temples. There are no shortage of Chinese who are there, including to pray, solitic ritual services, ask advice of the adepts, make donations, and so forth.
6. There are less famous and nearly-unknown, out of the way places where it is reputed that real cultivation in a monastic environment takes place. I have stayed in one such place, and it was very different from a famous holy mountain or a busy, big city temple. Getting an in at such a place, as well as staying there, of course requires many factors, again including visas, language ability, recommendations, fate, etc.
7. Beware the many spiritual charlatans, who range from those who might harm you outright to those who will simply waste your time and/or money
8. Beware people, including those in Daoist and Buddhist raiments, who will view your foreignness as nothing more than a tool to be leveraged in their walks towards fame and money, and who will brazenly use you
9. Some Westerners who wear the clothes of Daoists and claim lineage literally bought their lineages. Be aware of this fact if you seek the advice of Western Daoists

Another story. Another European friend of mine with fluent Chinese and many years' experience living in China found himself, via introduction, friendly with the abbot of a Quanzhen temple on a lesser holy mountain. Trips back and forth solidified his relationship with them and they helped him find a visa and allowed him to live on mountain. He had to teach English in return, but got to live with the Daoists. He found that they spend their days feasting with various local politicos after they are swept off the mountain in Mercedes Benz and Audi motorcades; drinking and smoking cigarettes; and playing Go (apparently they are really good at Go haha). They openly scorned practitioners who have anything but wuwei practices, and said that the only real key to Daoism is relaxing and being in the moment, at all times. Therefore, he was labeled as uptight and attached to false notions of cultivation, and later recieved a hearty slap on the back when he finally loosened up and started smoking with them. He told me that on the mountain he realized how Laozi came up with the idea of wuwei; it was because Laozi was a rich man living in the upper crust of his society who spent all his days wining and dining with the wealthy to-do of his time, and naturally enough developed a philosophy useful to a man of leisure. My friend has dressed in Daoist clothes and been introduced as a monk at banquets, even though he is not a monk. He asked his teacher to teach him in the way that Wang Liping is said to have practiced in Open the Dragon Gate, and his teacher said that nobody wants to practice like that any more. This friend has also gotten to travel around China and meet various people said to be masters, some of whom he hopes will be able to open the door to real Daoist cultivation to him. Will he find what he is looking for? I don't know. Is life as a foreigner interested in spirituality in China riddled with complexity, especially whilst one is seeking? Yes, absolutely.

[林愛偉]

If you want to come and check out life here for a while first, let me know. I have outlets in Shanghai for you to get a job.

 

 

HAHAHA NO GFs ! They will ruin you.

Thanks for the information, I will keep what you said in mind. It seems I have a lot on my plate to think about and consider; likely any action based on these ideas won't materialize for some time. Right now I am simply trying to become as informed as possible since I actually am serious about these matters.

 

As to the girlfriend option, I don't think that would jive very well with my ambitions to become a monk haha.

Edited February 3, 2013 by 林愛偉

[Walker]

On a separate note, what is the situation with Tibetan Buddhism within China? I know due to recent history the political situation is probably tense, and I hear most people say forget about going to Tibet proper (hence why I brought up Dharamsala) but what about Tibetan minorities in Sichuan? Do any Han Chinese practice Vajrayana?

 

Tibetan Buddhism has a large presence all over China. Many Han Chinese practice, sometimes visiting Tibet and Tibetan regions of Sichuan to further their studies in intensives and retreats. Teachers from Tibetan Buddhism, including "living buddhas," also travel all over China to teach their Chinese followers. However (1) foreigners will have a very difficult time getting into Tibet, including Tibetan areas of Sichuan, Qinghai, Yunnan, etc, except with a full-time tour guide and (2) there is almost no way, barring cloak and dagger activities, that you as a foreigner can become a Tibetan Buddhist monk in China, especially in ethnically-Tibetan regions, and certainly not in Tibet itself. Case in point: I know one Han Chinese Gelugpa nun and one Han Chinese Gelugpa monk. However, for the sake of avoiding hassle the nun wears Chinese Buddhist garb (very different from Tibetan robes) and the monk either wears the same or street clothes altogether. Furthermore, the nun has to sneak into Lhasa in street clothes, appearing to be a tourist, whenever she returns to her home monastery. You can see that their lives as monks and nuns are already difficult. You, as a white foreigner? Forget about it. (However, if you were working/studying in China, attending teachings as a layperson would be no problem, provided you never get involved in political activities).

 

The situation with Chan Buddhism in China is not vastly unlike what I have described with Daoism in China, although there are more temples that cater to members of the public who want to receive teachings and enter into retreat in Buddhism than in Daoism. I also daresay that the situation with Buddhism may be somewhat less chaotic than that with Daoism, but beware that beneath the saintly visage many monastics of both religions have nothing of substance to offer you. Anyway, like YMWong said, there is no monk visa you can hope for. If you or anybody is serious about wanting to live as a Chan Buddhist monk in mainland China, prepare to spend many years learning the language, learning the lay of the land and the culture, weeding out impostors (Buddhism has plenty, too), making friends who can pull strings for you, and searching for a place where they take foreigners, want you to be there, and teach real Buddhism. Impossible? No, because exceptions are the rule to every rule in China. Likely that you will find what you are looking for in the short term? No.

 

Put another way, there is no way that a foreigner could expect to land in China and slip easily, smoothly, and quickly into a monastic cultivation environment, regardless the religion, unless he or she has some very unusual karma.

 

YMWong's advice to you is worth keeping in mind. If you are really serious about studying Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism in a monastic environment, there are monastic communities in this tradition all over the Western world you can consider, no need to leave your country or learn a new language. Why not slowly check such communities out to see if monastic life even suits you? If it does and you are heart-set on learning in the original language of the teachings, life in India should be more than livable to one who plans on transcending worldly worries anyway. If sanitation in India is enough to scare you off, then you should be aware that the People's Republic of China is also a filthy place.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Walker

[林愛偉]

Tibetan Buddhism is all over China, and many Chinese do practice it. I have met government officials that practice it as well. I have met and seen many monks, and also "living Buddhas" walk the streets in their Tibetan Traditional Buddhist Monk Garb, and even nuns do the same.

 

Also have seen Daoist wear their robes, and such in public. But understand, any publicizing of any religion has been influenced by communism, so really, behind closed doors is where more of the in depth stuff gets talked about. Several Buddhist temples remain strict in cultivation, and will not change regardless of the political influence. These are hard core, and if any foreigner or any visitor for that sake, goes to cultivate, they must follow the rules or get out.

 

Regardless, if one has a long term residence visa, stay in a temple as long as you want, and the monks will let you stay as long as yo follow the rules of that temple. If you get a 3 month visa, or a 1 month, or 6 month, 1 year, so be it. In Buddhism, the depth of practice is based on the sincerity of the cultivator to their practice. It don't matter if you stayed 1 month or 3 days in a temple. You will get what you are able to get.

 

Daoism, find a quaint temple, be nice and get to know them. Eventually they warm up. :-)

[RobB]

You could try here: http://www.fiveimmortals.com/

 

Lindsey Wei wrote of her experiences in her book. More info here: http://thevalleyspirit.wordpress.com/

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[henro]

I think others have already offered some good advice - the best being to go there. Investigate over a few years, visit Taoist mountains, Buddhists temples, make pilgrimages. Learn Mandarin, learn Japanese if you're serious about Shingon, and dig deeper into the practices at home. If you take these steps forward something will open up for you. I've spent quite a bit of time in China, the first trip being with Michael Winn, and then lots of solo adventures. it took a long time to really feel comfortable there but the doors finally opened after about 3 years of travel. Though I go on long retreats there, and have met some great teachers I still don't think I would be comfortable entering a monastery there. Too much politics about everything Taoist these days. Being a hermit is more likely, though hard to get a visa for that

 

If you're into Shingon you should absolutely make the Shikoku 88 Temple pilgrimage. I did it in 2009. Incredible solo experience, and teaches you a lot of about living in a foreign land.

[shanlung]

Try to find the time to go to ChingCheng Shan 青城山 near Chengdu.

I am ethnic Chinese and while English is my mother tongue (legacy of old British Empire), I can communicate well enough in Mandarin.

 

I was there in 1998. Even then, Wudangshan, Shaolin were already so commercialised.

 

But not so in ChingCheng Shan.

 

Lots of interesting grottos in CCS with resident Taoist monks. Almost all were razor sharp and so iconic in talking to me.

If ever I decide to go into hermitage, I will go find that place in ChingCheng Shan.

 

I pray the changes in China spared ChingCheng Shan. Please excuse my wishful thinking.

[YMWong]

Qingcheng Mountain suffered a lot during Sichan earthquake a few years ago, some of the old temples went to rubble

 

http://cd.qq.com/a/20080606/000137_7.htm

 

YM

[shanlung]

YMWong,

 

I felt so devastated by what you told me.

I should have known it then. But I guessed at that time, too many gruesome images of collapsed school buildings and totally flattened villages got to the TV. Even the panda sanctuary got hit too. And CCS was not mentioned in CNN/BBC.

 

I spend about a week in CCS. I would have spend even longer time there.

I took a lot of photos. But sadly those were digital and in the hard drive when a strange entity fingered that sending those jpgs to oblivion with everything in that drive.

 

So those Taoist temples and their Taoist monks exist now only in my memories of those days.

 

Really sad. Even if the temples are rebuilt, they would not be the same as those centuries old temples that I saw and loved then.

 

Idiotic Taoist

Edited February 11, 2013 by shanlung

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Qingcheng Mountain suffered a lot during Sichan earthquake a few years ago, some of the old temples went to rubble http://cd.qq.com/a/20080606/000137_7.htm YM

 

Were these all from after the quake? There appears to be a number of them still in good condition.

[Wayfarer]

I once had a similar desire to go to China and do the same. I practised with the British Taoist Association and you can see on their website the temple and lineage they are associated with but even so the BTA could not arrange for me to go there and I think it is difficult. I have heard of bandits posing as monks to mug travelling westerners.

 

I wanted to become a Taoist priest because I had a spiritual epiphany while sat in my garden and then another while glancing at a cloud. I thought that Taoism best reflected what I knew and wanted to get a legitimate training so I could help others. I even went on to Facebook and communicated with around ninety Taoism priests and also spoke with people who had been to China to do what you are considering. Firstly, on Facebook most of the priests and temples are of the ritual, exorcism, divination Zhengyi school and located mid-terrace on city/town high streets. They seemed to spend most of their days uploading pictures of Chinese girls in bikinis etc. Of the Westerners (and also South American/Brazilian people) I spoke with who had gone out there for three months, most found the large temples to be as already described; tourist attractions and seeing tourists as money earners or the more remote temples as housing people who had become homeless, alcoholics or down on their luck and having no alternative, gone to temples to seek refuge rather than practising the Tao.

 

I liken this to a Chinese person wanting to follow Christianity and in being attracted to the hermit practice of some Catholics find themselves in British/American cathedrals and monastries wondering what is going on. Personally, I think temple/church life has killed much of religion. In being a temple, you have to be organised, have set times for certain practices to maintain order and discipline so consequently the freedom of the Tao is already tainted. Much of it lost its way after Wang Zhe but there are serious cultivators out there as the BTA had photos of cave living hermits in China (who did not like the intrusion of Westerners trying to look in their caves).

 

Ultimately, as you know the Tao is everywhere and not the property of Asia. The Tao was taught by Jesus (read the Gospel of St Thomas for instance), it is central to all religions no matter which you choose. All rivers run into the same ocean. With that in mind I eventually settled on two practices: Buddhism - The Community of Interbeing following the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh for meditating with people and Druidry as it is the closest thing to Taoism (in fact I think much of Taoism comes from Druidry) and it is based in Britain.

 

So I see it as follows: there are hundreds of temples and finding somewhere that practices what we would recognise as Taoism won't be easy, then being accepted in will be difficult too, then to find a teacher who actually knows his or her stuff will be hard and even more so to find one who is enlightened. If you are serious about awakening there are people on this website who have experienced it and perhaps one would be willing to help you. Otherwise, as St Bernard of Clairvaux said "Trees and stones will teach you that which you cannot learn from masters" - wherever you are, the Tao is speaking to you.

 

Best of luck,

 

Heath

Edited February 15, 2013 by Wayfarer

[Kongming]

I know this is an old thread of mine, but I'd like to thank everyone for their replies. Since the time I posted this thread I've grown more attracted to Taoism over Buddhism for certain technical reasons, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me about the Zhongnan mountains and the hermits there. I learned about the Zhongnan mountains through a documentary on Buddhist hermits there called "Amongst White Clouds", but I was wondering if anyone knew if any Taoist hermits are in these mountains to this day?

 

Since the creator of the documentary I speak of was an American who studied and lived among these hermits, I presume there is some means by which I could accomplish the same task. Does anyone have any further information about these mountains or Taoist hermits/monastics/ascetics in China today and the ability to study under them?

 

Thanks again!

[i am]

Like him, you'd need to learn the language. Beyond that I don't know. Have you tried to find a way to contact him?

[Kongming]

Like him, you'd need to learn the language. Beyond that I don't know. Have you tried to find a way to contact him?

 

Yea, I've been learning what I can through a mixture of Pimsleur's Mandarin, looking stuff up on the net, and watching Chinese dramas like Romance of the Three Kingdoms haha. I am currently looking for a way to contact him...I found a Facebook page belonging to him and am writing up a message to send him.

 

I'd really like to find a way to get to China as not only do I want to study Taoism more in depth, I also want to learn the guqin. Beyond that, I have a feeling the only way to become fluent in Mandarin is to live where it is spoken and become immersed.

[Gerard]

.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gerard

[i am]

Yes, if you really want to learn you need to immerse. It's not an easy language.

 

The guy I know who picked it up the fastest moved to Beijing, took two taiji classes a day plus language coaching, every day, while practicing CONSTANTLY on his own. Going over the pronunciation of words as he rode his bike to taiji class at 5am, being surrounded by native speakers, etc.

 

I think it took him about two years of doing this all the while living in China before he felt comfortable with basic conversations.

 

What you're doing is good, but is more like easy preparation for a vacation to china, where you want a very tiny feel for the language.

 

When I went, I got the first Rosetta Stone and did it for at least 15 minutes every day, plus flash cards, basic words and phrases. It did me only very, very basic good. Almost not even worth it, for how much good it did me. I needed much more than that.

Edited March 20, 2013 by i am

[Kongming]

Sorry to keep bumping my own thread, but I had another question I was hoping someone here may be able to answer for me. Essentially it is the same as my initial inquiry about being a Taoist monk/renunciate except I was wondering what the situation is in Taiwan. Are there Taoist monks or hermits in Taiwan and would one be more likely to be successful at such an endeavor in Taiwan over Mainland China? I know foreigners have been able to become Buddhist monks in Taiwan, and from what I hear with greater ease than the Mainland, so I was wondering if the situation was similar with Taoism.

 

Thanks in advance to any information anyone can provide.

[Gerard]

.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard

[shanlung]

I will say go to Taiwan for your initial immersion into the Chinese language.

You will be among the most friendly of folks in Taiwan, delighted that you are trying to learn mandarin and will go all out to assist and encourage you.

 

In Taiwan, you will be learning the classical chinese, the FanTiJi form. Later on in your travels in Mainland China, you will find all the letters cut into rocks and older books to be the FantiJi.

 

I was very devastated when I found I could read those old steles better than an University graduate I engaged in China to be my translator as she was brought up in the JianTiJi and could hardly recognised the Fantiji.

 

Taoist notes and older books will be written in the FanTiJi.

 

There are many old Taoist temples in Taiwan. More likely than not, you find better yuanfeng in Taiwan and might just spend all your time there.

 

And more likely than not, if you seek Mainland China after Taiwan, you will be given letter of introduction to those mainland china temples.

 

You will find your first step in Taiwan to be the best step you can take.

 

And do visits to Ching Cheng Shan.

 

I dont know about now.

But when I visited that place in 1990s, I was really taken up by that place a lot lot more than Wudang Shan.

 

Idiotic Taoist

[Kongming]

Thanks for the information and assistance, I suppose the only thing I need to do now is discover a means to get to either China or Taiwan to study Mandarin and thereafter pursue study of Taoism (and the guqin.) I've been looking into scholarships and have run across two that I may potentially be able to qualify for (or hope I can qualify for considering I am about to be 24 and am not enrolled in school.) In the meantime I suppose the best course of action will be to continue self-study of Mandarin and Taoism, incorporating the basic practices/meditations as well as the primary virtues into my life as best as possible.